Vegans of r9k, do you consider sea animals to be sentient creatures?

no, i'm a vegan. i don't eat animals or increase demand for mass produced meat.

Oh really how so?

Well the thread topic is reconciling carnivorism with sentience.

If you consume sea animals you are by definition a pescetarian

>Vegans of r9k, do you consider sea animals to be sentient creatures?

It's an interesting question, because you do have a point in which the sentience of many species of marine life is often overstated - here's a nice article about one neurobiologist's take on the intelligence of the octopus - slate.com/technology/2018/03/against-the-octopus-the-overrated-cephalopod.html

Of course, as a vegan, the degree of sentience does not matter. Is it ethical to eat the mentally retarded? Would you eat your parents once they have died? The level of sentience is not and was never my concern when I decided to stop eating animals.

I wouldn't consider all animals (as defined as being in the kingdom Animalia) to be sentient - sessile bivalvia and similar types of "animals" are close enough to plants I wouldn't care about eating them.

nobody is an authority on veganism, and you can call yourself whatever you want... but pretty much everyone would agree animals like octopuses and fish are sentient

and does eating fish not increase the demand for fish user? With the rise of aqua culture and farmed fish in the last two decades, you very well could be increasing the demand for mass produced meat.

Well dopamine is only used for one thing, sentience. I don't know about the animal you mentioned but I know that sea cucumbers have it.

I consider myself a vegan despite eating oysters now and again. I draw the line at sentience and ability to feel pain. Fish can feel pain. Fish are sentient. Oysters can not feel pain, nor are they sentient.

Farming oysters is also extremely beneficial for the environment.

>Of course, as a vegan, the degree of sentience does not matter. Is it ethical to eat the mentally retarded? Would you eat your parents once they have died? The level of sentience is not and was never my concern when I decided to stop eating animals.
It would be many times more ethical to eat a human vegetable with very little brain function, or your own deceased parents, than to kill and eat someone of sound mind who did not want to die.

Eating roadkill, for example, would be perfectly ethical, but it would also be disgusting.

>considering animals to be human

Attached: image.jpg (410x540, 68K)

I agree with you, but from your own points it should be clear why I am vegan

I see no problems with eating roadkill or eating the dead... but would you want to do this?

This is also my point of view
What's your opinion on eating insects?

I don't think presence of dopamine or other neurotransmitters alone is enough to say some organism is sentient - did you know dopamine can be found in some plants?

>...but they do have a system for sending electrical signals and even produce neurotransmitters, like dopamine, serotonin and other chemicals the human brain uses to send signals.

I don't consider animals to be human, but I do consider humans to be animals.

It's good you brought that up, it is, in my opinion, an important distinction. It is BECAUSE we are human that we can choose to be vegan when other animals could not

>What's your opinion on eating insects?
I think it's fine, but I have no desire to. If it became clear to me that cricket flour, or something similarly unoffensive, would greatly benefit my health without being totally disgusting, I wouldn't have an ethical issue with it. I just don't want to eat anything I could form a relationship with, or which could suffer past a certain point. I know with near-certainty that most bivalves are almost totally non-sentient, and I believe most insects are basically insenate as well.

I guess most vegans wouldn't consider me one, but I won't eat any meat, or most dairy/eggs. I think dairy is super unhealthy, but I would eat some if I knew for sure it was produced in an ethical way (which is the biggest omni meme ever, I'm aware, and 99.999% of "ethical" dairy farms, are fucking horrible). I don't give a shit about "exploiting" the animal or "stealing its labour". I don't think that's relevant; I just don't want the animal to suffer.

Oh oops no I didn't know it was in plants. Well then ganglia is all we have to work with but I think thats enough.

Octopus are some of the most intelligent animals on the planet, eating them should be considered murder along with dolphins and most apes.
I'm against industrial scale fishing in general, it's one thing to raise animals for meat but harvesting animals out of the wild on a mass scale with zero initiative taken to repopulate harvested areas isn't sustainable and fucking dumb. If you want fish either catch them yourself or buy farmed salmon or tilapia, don't strip mine the sea.

> or buy farmed salmon or tilapia
Do not do this. Farmed fish lives in its own shit and has to be pumped full of antibioitcs to counter this. It's extremely hazardous to your health.

I just assume they're conscious because I have no reason not to. That said, oyster and clams probably aren't. But I avoid them them in case they are. At the very least they have to have some kind of "do this/don't do this" learning mechanism that equates to pain. Evolutionary biologists believe instinct is just super quickly learned behavior after all, which means even the most basic of animals have to "learn" somehow through perceived negative stimuli. That means some analogue of pain, which means there must be some consciousness there - there must be "something to be like" a clam that one can imagine

so basically what you are saying in this thread is that you are a complete and utter wimp faggot? interesting theory

Attached: 1526964585975.jpg (639x479, 27K)

Would y'all vegan niggas be okay with eating carnivorous plants

Attached: lK9tyi0_d.jpg (640x1138, 45K)

Too intelligent to eat/hunt list
>Dolphin
>Whale
>Octopus
>Elephant
>Primates

No I'm just intelligent and considerate. Have fun remaining in purgatory forever. I'll be awakening.

>vegans on Jow Forums

Attached: download.png (250x202, 7K)

>can't tell the difference between octopus and squid

Kill yourself brainlet

>omnis anywhere
Sad

Arguably, a brain dead human is less intelligent than those. Does this make cannibalism/hunting people ok under the circumstances of the person being brain dead/severely retarded?

Ok? So? There are a ton more shrimp than cows, I would wager at least 10x more, but admittedly I am not an expert on shrimp demographics.

>Arguably, a brain dead human is less intelligent than those
>Arguably

Attached: 1516601877778.png (543x443, 24K)

Arguably, because there is the potential of some future cure for the state of being brain dead/severely retarded and thus potential for regaining intelligence. This is not the case for animals.
Question still remains though. Would it be considered ok to hunt humans if we define what we are allowed to eat based on intelligence?

If I could I"d snap a cows fucking neck for a steak. I'd slather its blood all over its children and slice them open. I'd run a chicken over. I'd burn a pig alive.
I would fucking have a field day st a farm if my reward was a delicious meat filled meal.
Yknow why?
Because I'm an animal. And I have animal instincts in that killing=food and food=living
Would I harm a human? No. Cause that dont get me food. Gets me in jail. Gets me fucked up mentally cause we evolved to not hurt each other (for no reason at least, and in the case someone does they were already mentally fucked)
Why do people think they're smart for not being down to beat a cow and shit if it means food?
We fucking evolved to have that ability. It makes you smart.
Doesnt change a thing if a chicken is allowed to roam free or whatever vs grow up in a nuggie factory. Except that one way I get my nuggies.
Vegans want to get rid of tendies and nuggies and milkies.
I hate every single one of you.
I wish I could shove a delicious ham sandwich down your throat.
Enjoy your you know what milk you know what bois

I don't know about vegan queers but goddamn that picture is mouth-watering

I don't think I've ever seen something that weaved together broscience and edge as seamlessly as this post.

>Arguably, a brain dead human is less intelligent than those.
Just you, brainlet

I know they're not as intelligent as humans, nor do they have the same capacity for feeling. But they are life, mammals which many people eat do have strong natural urges to care for their young, pack animals become very distress when they lose members, etc. and God created them as life (not as important as ours, but still life that needs to be treated with respect)

Vegan here, Personally I stay away from any kind of sea creature, if not for ethical concerns, for health and environmental concerns.

I don't know about all sea creatures, but certainly oysters don't have a central nervous system, and their neural system is very rudimentary. Personally I don't have much of an ethical problem with them.

Just to be safe, I would avoid it.
If you want to eat omega-3s just take an algae-oil supplement (contains omega 3 long fatty acids DHA and EPA), so you have a pollutant-free source of omega-3 (fish is full of mercury and other pollutants).

Attached: 71ByDlIGRVL._SL1500_.jpg (1500x1500, 164K)

If it's severly mentally disabled but still sentient (like a cow, chicken or pig), of course it's not ok.

If it has forever lost the capacity for sentience, it would have to depend what its family thinks of it, and what he thought of it when he had sentience and interests.

In an hypothetical situation where the family doesn't mind and the person gave the ok before completely losing sentience forever with no possibility of gaining it back, sure why not. If would be fine to eat its corpse. What's the problem? No harm done.

There are probably disease you can catch, but ethically speaking, it would be fine.
It would definitely be better than having to torture and kill a perfectly healthy and sentient non-human animal like a pig (unethical AND unnecessary).

Our culture buries or burns corpses I see no harm in a society that eats them (assuming the people concerned are ok with it).

Attached: 09b14830bddea4c41e4655eb0bc12dd6.jpg (833x625, 110K)

What the fuck do you think commercial fishing is?

>vegans want to actually unironically deny the nature of life itself and say it's wrong to kill something for nutrients

>b-but pigs are more intelligent than dogs
So?

>their only arguments now are ridiculous what ifs
>what if you were the animal and aliens were humans
They know their stance on shit is retarded so they use retarded arguments. It's just so cringe.

Attached: wPfB1qFQj8UtuepuH1yLsQ7Ftv2gfsl-V6YonlxBr0w.jpg (612x1346, 185K)

The point being it is more ethical to kill one cow and feed a lot of people than to kill 10 shrimp to hardly feed one.

Thats 10 lives for a snack vs one life for a two weeks worth of meals.

fish are part of the ANIMAL KINGDOM

if there where no health issues that come with eating your own species then yea it would be fine to eat dead people, although I doubt the family of the dead person would be willing to let you

1 lb of beef = 1,800 gallons of clean water
1 lb of shrimp = the fucking ocean

Animals cannot reciprocate or even understand your rights and as such do not deserve any

Attached: Sakurafish.jpg (600x600, 39K)

What our ancestors had to do or didn't have to do is irrelevant to whether it's ethical to do it today.
They probably had to kill other tribes and rape women, and it's possible we wouldn't be here if they didn't. Does that mean it's ok to do it today?

>vegans want to actually unironically deny the nature of life itself and say it's wrong to kill something for nutrients
pic related

Attached: Logical Fallacy 21 - Appeal To Nature.png (867x557, 271K)

I think people dont understand that a lot of people arent vegans because of killing animals but because of how ridicolously horrifying the things that go on in slaughterhouses is, its not stuff you see in nature but in horror movies only it happens every day in real life

Sure animals might not have the same complexity of emotions as a human but the amount of pain they suffer doesnt balance with how less sentient they are because obviously they still are sentient

Attached: 1519048291037.jpg (744x953, 310K)

>using the fallacy fallacy
user you're better than that, try again

Neither can a retard. But it's still wrong to holocaust them.
On another note, I don't even think that's true in any meaningful sense. Animals reciprocate both kindness and aggression. Treat an animal kindly and gain a friend who wont forget you. Hurt them and they turn out fucked and aggressive. Reciprocity and empathy is kind of the foundation for our conceptions of rights, and animals understand these concepts on a certain level.

>But it's still wrong to holocaust them
why? our current society would say its wrong but still we do treat retarded people as subhumans we dont let them make autonamous decisions, they need carers, they cant take out loans.

So why is it wrong to kill a retarded person?

If the world turns vegan, then do we have a situation like the holocaust as billions of cattle and poultry are slaughtered as they are now worthless. In addition, every pet like dogs and cats, and every carnivorous animal in captivity (zoos) are now condemned to a slow, agonising death as they die because they can't eat plant or fungi life.

If the vegans succeed, they will destroy this Earth.

>implying the ocean doesn't evaporate
>implying fresh water isn't infinite

>>this argument again
I hope the aays destroy us and give some bullshit excuse as they do.

>can't even phase into other dimensions
>expects us to ward off shadow people for them

>>you're they're property now you monkeys. lmfao

Attached: 1480128655287.jpg (437x437, 92K)

He's right you know fag.

>>you're they're property
>they are

Fuck you too subconscious. I blame the shadow people for this.

Attached: 1524122248772.jpg (782x673, 107K)

>oyster and clams probably aren't
Oysters (and salt water mussels) are no more sentient than plants. Clams however are capable of digging, which makes them slightly more advanced than plants.

I hate this argument. The billions of cattle and poultry were going to die anyway. The point is that we don't breed and kill even more. Animals in captivity is a little bit more of a grey area, but again vegans aren't saying let them starve to death - at the very least they' advocate for putting them down.

You're being facetious though, the world won't go vegan overnight. People will switch slowly if at all. It's like fossil fuels - we need to stop using them at some point because they're gonna run out but it's not possible to just stop now.