Did Anceint Romans...

probably a grower like me

If it’s 2 inches it’s defo bigger than the pic

I’m 3.5 and go to 6.2-6.5

this shit is amazing

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Do you think (((they))) had something to do with it and also due to technology compensating for poor genes natural selection became more rare.

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idk man, there are many factors at play it seems. The plastics and birth control, and what is done to the food... other things... It can't end well at this rate.

Weird when BAP gets a mention twice in a single thread. I think BAP actually made one of these posts desu.

just less and less natures choice everyday. only gonna get worse coz even sickly genes can look good on todays standards because no physical requirements of any sort unless u choose so

Literally why I think every man should be open to the idea of using synthetic testosterone to always have optimal levels. We’re not the same as we used to be.

they spent 75% of their free time training and the remaining 25% praising their gods, and a lot of their non-free time marching and waging wars, yes they were ripped kek

they weren't closer to these statues than we (natties, I mean by that) are today though, some light exaggerations were obviously made, but they were most certainly muscular - and some ripped/low bodyfat+muscular - to have models to make sculptures like that.

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Most residents of any pre-18th century civilization were probably malnourished to an extent, and many of the people who weren't malnourished were probably fat bourgeoisie.

Greeks invented the gym, faggot

But they weren’t pumping weights like we do, I wonder who exercises they did?

>implying urban luxuries were actually available to the vast majority of the population of any culture prior to the industrial revolution

greeks were manlets tho

yes user, I wonder who exercises too

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The lil dickus on the greek statues represents self-control. Highly valued trait in logical male.

Implying the majority of people in our society, today, are ripped either.

Cool tidbit. You know how Greek and Roman sculptures look amazing? Well, originally they were painted and looked terrifying.

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a lot of things were painted

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We lost the survival gene. I guess harder bones = harder to kill in battle by animals and stuff and being able to lift heavier by not snapping our bones in a time of emergency

Actually the Greeks thought large penises were savage and unsavory. They wanted smaller penises because they all had gigacocks. Their art reflects this.

This is in the Ashmoleon in Oxford and it never ceases to make me laugh. The coloured statue just looks so fucking weird

Dicklet cope

not true, average height in mycenean greece was 5'9.5

thanks for confirming

Some still have it (some would call them genetic freaks, think Mike Tyson).
You can improve testosterone and bone strength through training, our ancestors and ancient warriors would train and survive most of the time so they relied on getting stronger bigger and leaner.

Also the kikes don’t help either

THIS IS MY FAVORITE STATUE it even captures Augustus' donkey ears

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That's not what I heard, I hope you'll provide a source for this. I'm not sourcefagging just legit curious because from I know it was closer to 5'6. But from the bonze age in Europe in Mycenae, Upsala, and the Tollense find (early Germanic and Slavic men genetically) and others they've found elite warriors that were 6 foot and taller. Those guys were incredibly genetically successful and that's why Europeans are so tall and robust compared to other non-nigger populations. Something like +60% of European paternal haplogroups can be traced to 3 men from the bronze age. Isn't that fucking crazy? There are other examples of less common lineages that have a similar pattern, all descended from some Chad in this era.

Thread theme: youtube.com/watch?v=x3LiRuQjw3o

heheheheheehhe little penis!!!

Hey buddy im kinda interested in this. Where do you read about this stuff? Any good articles or books to reccomend?

Skeletal remains of Roman legionnaires imply extremely well-developed musculature. Some historians amounted it to the same level of fitness as today's special forces. So imagine the Chaddest of Chads from some alphabet agency blackops, take tens of thousands of those lads, put them into heavy armor and imagine how fucking badass you had to be to even stand against force like this.

Also this isn't really that far from reality too. It wasn't that much homoerotic though. Plato was total faggot too.

P L A S T I C S

And jews, obviously

I'm proud to be asian then

>only strong infants survive sometimes problematic births and childhood
>good, natural and healthy food that is also specific for you habitat, nothing imported
>true patriarchal society that values virility, manhood, soldier virtues and fitness
>all free men have to fight numerous wars and prepare accordingly
>there is very little sedentary work.
>no plastics
>no jews

It's not that hard to see what is happening.

Also little historical fun fact to illustrate how deep we've fallen:
>be a citizen of ancient Rome
>your wife cheats on you
>you can legally: kill her, divorce her or let the state to take care of her
>what state does: buys her from you, employs her into a state-owned brothel (where she belongs as a whore) and gives you a cut from her earnings

Eupedia is one of the best forums and sites dedicated to this kind of information user, and most of the studies I've read have been sourced from the forums or the articles there. If you're curious about any specific part of Europe or the Mediterranian you can find a great deal of info on the articles there without even having to sign up. Survive The Jive is a good youtube channel for info related to population genetics as well, he mostly focuses on Anglo Saxons and Northern Europe. It's a bit harder if you're looking for info about Asia or N. American peoples, but I know there are some sites that focus more on them. There are many books on the subject but in the last 5-10 years there has been an explosion of new information and published studies, if there were a single book where it was all decently compiled and accurate I'd tell you user but it just doesn't exist yet. It's like every 3 months we find something out that BTFO's widely accepted thought.

Based. What if the husband cheated though?
>hurrr soi cuck
Personally, I'm of the opinion that a vow constitutes the embodiment of a man's will. If his will is so weak he'll break his vow then he is not fit to be called a man. Assuming there's a vow of fidelity the Roman vows then he should be gelded if he cheats. Really, a man should be gelded for breaking his vow regardless. If you cannot act as a man you should not function as one.

Well first of all we must define what was adultery back then. For you, as a free Roman citizen, to cheat on your rightful wife meant that you banged some other either free citizen woman or someone else's wife. You could bang slaves and prostitutes without legally committing adultery.

However, if you did, your wife could file for a divorce. It wasn't always accepted, but it wasn't really that uncommon either - especially during Republic it was something pretty common. Whole process was rather quick and without hustle, if the divorce was fulfilled then she would pack her shit, take the dowry she brought into marriage and leave your house. Women divorced like that usually returned back to their family home under the authority of their father. She could later re-marry and divorced women usually did.

scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1762&context=ccr

i appear to have been wrong, the average height was 5'7, so they were manlets, but not quite as short as some people would claim, as if they were all malnourished dwarves

a quote for reference:

Louise Schofield also observes that before 1600 BC "the mainland of Greece was a cultural backwater [...] The men were about 5-ft 2-in [to] 5-ft 6-in tall." But after 1600 the archeological records suddenly portray a "military aristocracy" made up of men who "had an average height of 5 ft 7 in... were robustly built, strong and muscular, with large hands and feet." The archeological remains of this Mycenaean culture "give the impression of a fierce and warlike people who gloried in battle and in the hunt.

the description paints quite the picture. 1600 bc was nearly 4000 years ago. i agree with many others in this thread that back then people were probably just genetically more manly. Virgil said we are inferior to our grandfathers, and our grandfathers inferior still to those that came before them. pic related is a female from bronze-age greece. look at how high T her features are for a woman. now imagine her brothers or father

look up indo-europeans, bronze age warfare, stuff like that

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Also to note, cheating was seem to be much more prominent with women back then. Augustian reforms (that contained that great shit with brothels) were specifically targeting women adultery. In old Rome, honor and virtue of your promise as a man were extremely valuable and considered of utmost importance. There are historically noted suicides just because someone doubted your word - people literally killed themselves to prove they stand behind their word with their life. Romans were something different in this.

Also to bang freely and without any social stigma any slave or prostitute helped a lot.

Yes and sort of? Depends on the century and people.

Greek soldiers were either mercenaries, who fought and trained professionally - or citizen militias, which meant they were rich enough to eat all they want and worked hard farm labour. It varied a bit by city and time (even the Spartans went through hard times and mostly employed starved slave-soldiers with little armor). Either way they were well fed and strong AF.

The same is generally true of the Roman military from the beginning through the High Empire, but in the later periods they adopted a defence in depth strategy, which meant they employed mobile field armies of Germanic Chads, but most soldiers were part time Limitanei aka peasants who owed hereditary service as border guards. So quality was generally low.

Basically any Roman or Greek who had some money and wasn't old was fucking ripped.

An anecdote is that Demosthenes of Athens was considered extremely weird in that he wasn't muscled, and almost every historian remarks on it with as though its extremely uncommon to have such a weak body

The older stance seems more appropriate from my perspective. I can understand the asymmetry in the later laws if it was become a social issue (much as it is today). That men weren't treating their vows with the same gravity in this period also demonstrates how society was becoming destabilized (again, much as it is today).

Women in general are reflection of their men. If the women are whores and thots today, it is because men are weak and unmanly - which, sadly, most of us are.

Checking em too.

agreed. i heard the quote once: 'men and women, everywhere, at all times, deserve each other'

Thanks for looking user. 5'7 is very large for any people.
>mainland Greece was a cultural backwater
This is a disrespectful and gay thing for them to say, really grinds my gears desu. This is where the Dorians came from, the only people who could BTFO the Myceneans. They said all of Northern Europe was a "cultural backwater" until the Tollense find changed everything. Since then they've found that the bronze age Scandinavian burials (from about the same era the Mycenean dominance over the Med) had glass beads made by King Tut's glassmaker, and that all of these cultures, Mycenae, Nords, Mesopotamians, Egyptians all traded with each other, shared culture and etc. We'll learn even more in the years to come.

Men were vital to the state, just like women are vital to the consumer "culture" of today. Whoever is vital to the power structure is going to get some preferential treatment. Check out Mandragola by Machiavelli user. It's not about virtue or accountability often, so much as outcome.

>5'7 is very large for any people
*of that era

Correct, but there's more context to the Augustan marriage reforms. It wasn't just about honor, the biggest reason was encouraging legitimate reproduction because a huge portion of the fighting age men had been killed off in the decades a civil war that Augustus ended.

For example a woman who birthed three legitimate children was granted full legal independence

This guy started with the Greeks

Agreed. There was also some tax reliefs for people with children, right? I don't remember the specifics that well.

THEY'RE TURNING OUR JEWS GAY!!

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Remember the average height back then would of been like 3 feet tall so they would be manlet gains.

Also sculptures were basically instagram thots of their time.

I absolutely understand the cynical (or pragmatic if you wish) position. I'm just at a point where virtue and philosophy is more important to me. Getting married shortly so I'm rather focused on what's important for my future son(s). In that regard, honouring your word is certainly around the top of that list.

The only machiavelli I've read is The Prince. I enjoyed it and have applied it as opportunities have arisen. I'll look into your recommendation.

On a completely unrelated topic, as you seem an erudite sort, have you come across any good ebook torrent sites? I've been trying to find some books i was recommended on fascism but i cant find torrents or ddl on any of the usual suspects.

how do I get those natty bone density gains?

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Plastics, onions, not to mention we don't practice eugenics or survival of the fittest anymore so we're full of shit genes

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Yes! Childless men were assessed heavier taxes,
and the Lex Julia Maritandis also made adultery for men illegal unless it was with hookers or slaves. Adultery for women was completely forbidden under penalty of death. Augustus even exiled and starved his own daughter for being a slut.

My favorite quote on the subject is from one of Aug's senate speeches, "If we could survive without a wife, citizens of Rome, all of us would do without that nuisance; but since nature has so decreed that we cannot manage comfortably with them, nor live in any way without them, we must plan for our lasting preservation rather than for our temporary pleasure."

t. in a grad level Roman law class

The gods who own Olympusas dwelling-place,
deathless, made first of mortals a Golden Race,
(this was the time when Kronos in heaven dwelt),
and they lived like gods and no sorrow of heart they felt.
Nothing for toil or pitiful age they cared,
but in strength of hand and foot still unimpaired
they feasted gaily, undarkened by sufferings.
They died as if falling asleep; and all good things
were theirs, for the fruitful earth unstintingly bore
unforced her plenty, and they, amid their store
enjoyed their landed ease which nothing stirred,
loved by the gods and rich in many of herd.

Fifth is the race that I call my own and abhor.
O to die, or be later born, or born before!
This is the Race of Iron. Dark is their plight.
Toil and sorrow by day are theirs, and by night
the anguish of death; and the gods afflict them and kill,
though there's yet a trifle of good amid manifold ill.
Hesoid

The Greeks knew, anons. The world degrades. Your grandfathers were stronger and your grandsons will be weaker.

>"If we could survive without a wife, citizens of Rome, all of us would do without that nuisance; but since nature has so decreed that we cannot manage comfortably with them, nor live in any way without them, we must plan for our lasting preservation rather than for our temporary pleasure."
It will never cease to amaze me how based that man was. Chad among Chads. I for one consider that guy probably the greatest ruler in human history. Thanks for the A post, user.

Lots of research points to lifting helping with bone density, so you're probably making those gains without even knowing it, fren.

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By the way m8, you have some recommended literature about the man? I've read a few, but it was always meh.

>be teacherfag on placement
>history background but unfortunately timetables didn't line up so teaching other humanities subjects
>talking to ancient history teacher about slavery
>>the english invented slavery
>u wot m8
>>well not slavery per se but slavery as an industry
I excused myself at that point. Fucking disgusting.

That distinction isn't unique to Rome. That's actually how things are described according to the Bible. Adultery is the act of adulterating someone marriage by having sex with a married woman who is not your wife. Having sex outside of your marriage generally, with an umarried woman, is called fornication. The punishment for fornication is that you either have to marry the girl (as an additional wife if need be), or if her father rejects that, you have to pay a fine

Unironically squats and deadlifts. Look into wolff's law

>i was recommended on fascism but i cant find torrents or ddl on any of the usual suspects
I'd love to help you user but I'm in the same boat on this topic. I've been looking for anything related to Arno Breker (most of his work was destroyed) and Hans Suren in English to no avail.

btw Mandragola is more of a comedy. People never gave him the respect as a writer that he deserves imo. That play help me get over the fact that all the degenerate filth and corruption of this gay earth is basically the norm of human history, and to not let my disgust, ego or conscientiousness drive me to a state of misanthropy or something. This may seem a bit boomerish to give unwarranted advice like this but I think it's important: You can embrace virtue as the greatest good, but don't let a placid sense of goodness or moralfagging rule you, as it robs you of vitality. Life itself calls you to enjoy it and to work on your own prowess, not for the sake of improvement but for your own will. Your will is not your consciousness or your ego, it's much deeper and all-encompassing. Only in internalizing this do you really "get" anything. I only recommended that play or any of this to you because I see some of myself in your posts fren.

I feel like they just didn't finish coloring it.

Based prima porta poser

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I totally get where you're coming from. I sort of went through the opposite growth. I more started from the edgy nihilistic, cynicism and have moved toward virtue as both an expression of and tool for honing will (for lack of a better term). The rampant degeneracy and hedonism I had previously pursued, and now more than ever perceive, is more of a cautionary tale now. "There but for the grace of God go I" and all that.

You seem a good egg, user

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Based bunch of lads. Following link has a ton of messages that were preserved in Pompeii after Mount Vesuvius eruption. It has a shitpost level near-equal to Jow Forums
pompeiana.org/Resources/Ancient/Graffiti from Pompeii.htm

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ROMA
O
M
A

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Adrian Goldsworthy has a pretty good laymans biography called "Augustus".

Other than that, nothing is better than the ancient sources. Tacitus, Suetonius, or Augustus himself. A word of caution - many of these are biased and unreliable, but you can learn about the reality by reading between the lines and comparing them, as well as reading about the historians themselves.

Start with the 'Res Gestae divi Augusti' by Augustus himself:
classics.mit.edu/Augustus/deeds.html

Actually here I just found some fucking sick web resources for Aug.

roman-emperors.org/auggie.htm

Lift weights that 2 times your BW, so squats and diddys.

>VIII.2 (in the basilica); 1864: Samius to Cornelius: go hang yourself!

KYS CORNELIVS!!1

>VI.14 (vico degli Scienziati); 3042: Cruel Lalagus, why do you not love me?
Tfw no gf

lalagus is a masculine name

>tfw no (boy)gf

Thank you very much user and good gains upon you.

Isn't Lalagus more of a surname?

I'm not an expert in art but I've seen enough ancient frescoes and stuff that have survived. I don't understand why they would reconstruct that sculpture with such flat colors. Surely the greens and Romans would have painted them with some depth and shading and shit. None of the surviving ancient paintings on flat surface look so weird.

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This.

Fuck, Greeks and Romans not greens.
Another example of ancient Greco-Roman painting.

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Holy shit they were actually vertical posting even back then

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Myron

>tfw Romans had more advanced irl shitposting techniques than we anticipated.
Pic very much related.

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based
holy fuck lads its so funny it hurts

NEVER FORGET THE 10 KAJILLION

It’s funny how this contrasts with the feminine ideal at the time. I guess some things never change

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>the death of 10,000 jews
Clearly a typo, should be 1,000,000

They were more grounded with their science-fiction back then.