I was reading something on a different thread and some faggot said he was eating 5k calories omad (high fat and protein + low carb) was only gaining lean mass whereas when he tried it with high carb he gained alot of fat
ALSO IS FRUCTOSE A MEME OR NOT? STAN EFFERDING SAID YOU NEED LIVER GLYCOGEN FOR MAXIMUM ATHLETIC PERFORMANCE BUT IDK
ANSWER ME
Read "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jasong Fung. It very thoroughly debunks CICO.
The main takeaway is that the body reacts with different hormones to different macro nutrients. Carbs stimulate insulin which causes fat storage and prevents fat burning.
If you want to gain body fat eat carbs. If you want to gain lean muscle eat fat and protein instead.
People who eat carbs go through a "bulking" phase where they put on fat weight and then a "cut" where they have to lose the fat. This does not increase muscle mass any faster. It's a placebo. They see their weight on the scale go up and think they are getting results.
>muh fats
Unless you're going full keto, enjoy having constant head fog due to the lack of glucose
Name one (semi-)pro bodybuilder or strength athlete who runs a keto diet. Oh right... there is not a single one. And then you have those 60kg twigs who run a keto because "lmao muscles" when all they had to do was eating 500g of noodles or rice a day extra.
I thought meat and cheese contain glucose?
No.
youtube.com
KETARDS BTFO
Not a single dyel skinnyfat fuck that advocates keto will ever post body. What does that tell you?
CICO is not a meme, but your body responds differently to different nutrition. If you eat 1000 calories above maintenance daily, you will gain weight. However, what those 1000 calories consist of will change what the weight you gained consists of.
Don't listen to people like . The human body is very complicated and there are many facets of it not fully understood. An individual's genetic makeup complicates things much further. If you're going to make decisions about your diet, CICO is basic thermodynamics which applies nearly equally to everyone, while more complicated things like "Eating X food results in Y hormones and Z such and such..." vary wildly in their application from person to person with negligible differences.
It's EXTREMELY difficult to eat at a caloric surplus with no carbs, significantly more difficult than just cutting excess bodyfat for a couple months once you reach your goal lean body mass weight. Moreover, carbohydrates are extremely hard to come by naturally in certain areas where human beings have lived for millennia, we have evolved a lot of different ways to generate fat without them.
>source: yelling retards ass
Even in the comments he gets debunked.
In what groups of people does insulin not cause fat gain?
>However, what those 1000 calories consist of will change what the weight you gained consists of.
No it wont. You'll be a fat fuck either way
a calorie is not a calorie.
that's the main part of the meme.
the other is that severe caloric deficits are extremely catabolic and slow down your metabolism.
Eat 0 calories for a month and tell me if its a meme
liver glycogen is not something you need lmao.
who is this Stan memer?
liver glycogen determines whether or not your goucagon will be high.
glucagon is the opposite hormone to insulin, it burns energy.
if you want to tap into fat storage you want empty liver glycogen.
That's fasting.
Better idea: cut calories by 600 and watch your weight loss plateau as your metabolism slows to match your new calorie intake.
>Better idea: cut calories by 600 and watch your weight loss plateau as your metabolism slows to match your new calorie intake.
lel, what happens is when you lose weight you get a new maintenance point. If you lose 5 kilo you need less calories in order to keep your current body mass. Its not your metabolism that slows down
Wrong.
Metabolism slows down through a variety of ways: lower body temperature, lower heart rate, lower blood pressure, reduced cognition (this is why CICO morons have such difficulties reading and learning), slower replacement of hair and nails, etc.
Long term weight loss studies have proven metabolism slows and stays reduced for at least a year.
On a calorie restricted diet you retain fat and lose muscle. Muscle requires calories to maintain so your body gets rid of all the muscle it can to balance your calorie budget.
How the fuck do you think this is in any way true? Like how the fuck would anyone on here look slightly muscular if the traditional bulk/cut method didn't work?
well they do minor deficits, the idiot you're arguing with is talking about severe deficits.
no he doesn't, he's 100% right
only fucking DUMB RETARDS shill for keto diets, that or lying scam artists and roidfags
keto is fucking ASS for muscle gains, absolutely terrible, even for maintaining muscle it's horse shit.
>you can only get insulin from carbs
That guy was claiming everyone is different and things like insulin response are too difficult to figure out.
Carbs -> insulin -> fat storage
It's a very predictable and universal aspect of human biology.
uhuh k
>Need MUH CARBS 2 build muscle BRO!
>durrrr
Hi Jason
no, you need insulin, which is created from protein in a diet lacking carbs.
keto diet macros are trash.
Insulin causes fat storage.
Carbs are trash.
Insulin is always present. It's the secretion and up-regulation of insulin that determines growth, both of muscle and fat. Certain amino acids are extremely insulinogenic which is why stuff like whey protein is good for gaining mass. Carbs keep you in a constant state of storage which can be efficient for a dirty bulk where you don't mind gaining fat with your muscle since you'll cut it later but if you want to optimize you'd cut the carbs, increase protein, and eat fat as your energy source.
post body
>Carbs stimulate insulin which causes fat storage and prevents fat burning.
causing fat to be stored from where?
teleported from the cosmos directly onto your ass?
how can you be this retarded
Excess glucose is stored as triglycerides in adipose tissue. I really hope you don't think dietary fat is the only macro that can be stored in adipose tissue.
that is not how the metabolic process works
that's barely a metabolic process at all, the way you describe it
go back to school and pray you have the audacity to never speak aloud in a public forum again
Since I'm so stupid, explain where I'm wrong. Obviously it's the grossest simplification possible since the person I responded to seemed to be functionally retarded but I'd like to hear the "truth".
how does protein make it to your muscles?
post body faggot
glucose is GOAT for bulking. Fructose pre workout and glucose post workout is what you need
high fat diets BTFO!
you really expect anybody to watch a podcast of a DYEL and a hambeast?
go home.
CICO is a meme. Your body is way more complicated than a net 0 environment where all foods provide solely energy and have no other effects on your body. If that were true, alcohol wouldn't have different effects to your body, ketones wouldn't exist, and protein would be the only macro nutrient you need to survive
Carbs cause large spikes of insulin, which is fat storing hormone in your body. When you consume only fat, it's been shown that your core temperature and metabolism raises to compensate to a degree. However, fats also cause an insulin spike, so you can not escape the fat gain from food, it's just not as high. That guy who ate 5000 calories of fats probably ate a lot of nuts, so he probably shit some of that fat out instead of digesting it. Another important point is that insulin is what allows proteins to be carried to your muscles for growth. It's why fitness gurus always tell you eat carbs with protein, to better facilitate the movement of protein for protein synthesis. So without carbs, your muscle mass gain could be slowed. It's important to distinct between lean mass and muscle mass. Lean mass includes bone density, organs, etc. That guy could have been gaining fat around his internal organs and not even know it. Nutrition is a field we are only beginning to understand
Fructose is in no way beneficial in the way most people get it. "Maximum athletic performance" can vary from person to person, but anyone suggesting eating sugar to boost performance is braindead
youtube.com
I got the fructose thing from Stan Efferding (Vertical diet). Also based Cole (Snake diet) does mention fructose as good for preworkout in the form of fruits
he says people who are on a fast and feel lethargic and want a boost before going to the gym should consider eating a piece of fruit as a preworkout.
his routine, which is what I'm doing, is to workout fasted. if you're lean enough to do OMAD this is superior.
The people who abuse insulin to get massive.
Even without steroids insulin abuse is a thing to increase muscle just as effectively.
Moderation and consistency is 10x more important than having a perfect ideal diet. CICO, get your protein, eat mostly clean, and live a little.
>people who eat carbs
aka all normal people throughout history who aren't fucking retarded
Yo I forget, do thermodynamics apply to everything that moves or just everything that moves and isn't human?
>if you want to gain lean mass eat fat
hahaahahah this what obese ketards tell themselves
why aren't you on a low fat carnivore diet yet fatty?
I used to be a special ed teacher and if there is only one thing my students with Down's syndrome would eat it is bread
Every gram of fat you eat is the fat you wear
Carb the fuck up cunts
>fat you eat is the fat you wear
le pol memes xd
Is it a legitimately good read or another one of those "revolutionary diet" kind of things like keto and carnivore and fasting and all these memes?
Its a nephrologist writing about how he figured out how to treat obese diabetics with kidney failure.
It turns out fatties don't simply lack willpower. Its hormones.
>Experimentally, it’s easy to study caloric reduction. We take some people, give them less to eat, watch them lose weight and live happily ever after. Bam. Case closed. Call the Nobel committee: Eat Less, Move More is the cure for obesity, and caloric reduction truly is the best way to lose weight. Luckily for us, such studies have already been done.
Man does it have to be written in the same way as those articles on bodybuilding sites? I may still buy it because it looks interesting but way to kill your credibility.
just watch his lectures and interviews.
nice digits.
it's for laymen user, also checked
>Being so dense as to believe non-peer reviewed claims by some meme doctor have somehow changed a field (they haven't)
Yeah no. Once you control for all variables CICO continues to predict weight changes.
That means in your experiments-
*Participants are given a fixed diet (because people don't remember/lie about their diet)
*Participants eat/are monitored in a controlled environment (so they don't eat other shit/uneaten portions can be measured)
*Participants are in thermally monitored chambers to measure calories expended and loss of mass through bathroom time, exhaling, etc.
Alleged discrepancies in CICO disappear
All this ketards not knowing that insulin is the most anabolic hormone the human body produces.
Fung is a lying moron
Download the EPUB for free and then buy it after if you liked it enough that you want to support it.
I found his writing improved in The Diabetes Code but both were good reads. Very solid scientific basis for everything he says without being overly technical.
All controlled long term weight loss studies have shown CICO is a fraud.
The hormonal theory of obesity is much more sound.
This desu. If you are eating enough on 'keto' to be lifting then you'll inadvertently be getting enough carbs to bring you out of keto but still be fucking exhausted.
I should know. I tried for a month.
Is that why type 2 diabetes patients become so muscular when they start insulin injection?
In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic. Insulin causes fat gain.
Post body champ
How in the Fuck would anything survive if muscle were the first thing to go? You carbniggers are full potato mode. You wanna look like a predator? Eat and live like a predator. You wanna look like a barnyard animal? Eat and live like a barnyard animal. This is common fucking sense.
>dude just LARP as a completely different animal
>our proud hunter gatherer ancestors would never eat a fruit no siree
CICO works for me without a doubt. I have observed real weight gain when I eat more and real weight loss when I eat less. I just don't eat junk food basically. No chips, ice cream, cookies, candy, cake, etc. I think as long as you don't eat crap you can do whatever fast diet you want and be fine.
>Stan "Inbred" Efferding
>Intelligence
lol
You fucking faggot should read a bit about different metabolic processes.
>I have observed real weight gain when I eat more and real weight loss when I eat less. I just don't eat junk food basically. No chips, ice cream, cookies, candy, cake, etc.
I have observed weight gain and weight loss while eating ice cream, chips, candy, strawberry jam. As long as you eat 80% normal food you can eat some shit as well. Last summer i cut i while eating a lot of ice cream for example and breakfast was bread with strawberry jam which is lots of sugar. Calories in calories out is what primarily matters unless you go the level where all the cals you are eating are extremely poor quality like chips and soda and chokolate bars or oreos. Like if you eat 3000 calories a day and they come only from chips, soda, oreos then you are in for a bad time, but who actually eats that bad?
>. Like if you eat 3000 calories a day and they come only from chips, soda, oreos
But then again, you could gain or lose weight on that diet by either increasing or decreasing the amount of that you eat so in the end it all about calories in calories out.
Fucking fat logician tumblrina
Read a book.
Read siege.
Shit troll is shit
Any recommendations, I quite enjoyed the shining
Yeah dude as long as your junk food stays in your calorie limit it's fine. I was just saying that I choose not to eat it.