My doctor prescribed insulin. Look at how super muscular my insulin injection site has become!

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I take insulin every day, the fuck happened to your stomach?

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Post body and tell how you eat how you workout.
A diabetic friend uses it as an excuse to not lift because diabetic reasons.

Insulin is making the adipocytes uptake the glucose in the body, to prevent this the insulin has to be injected on different locations on the body like the stomach and the thighs. Insulin has a anabol effect ( making fat)

Almost like my pony porn.

nice zune, nerd

im a type 2 diabetic and i inject insulin in my triceps. i treat it like site enhancement oil.

pic related

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If you're type 2 why don't you just reduce carb consumption and get off medication?

because I love carbs lmao

AaaaaaaAAAAA fuck I thought those were titties at first

I'm not impressive or anything
High protein/fat diet with less than 100g carbs daily. Lifting doesn't effect my bs much at all. I do PPLPP for a routine.
I know all this, but injecting it SQ like it's supposed to should not do that. The most you get is small hard nodules from poor site rotation, usually.

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Type 1 or type 2?

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I'm type 1. Onset pretty late, right as I turned 20. Just dropped thirty pounds in a bit over a month completely randomly despite being ravenously hungry and eating 4k Cal+ a day, getting consistently weaker, pissing out oceans and guzzling gallons of water.

Meant for you

some type 1's can be (very slowly) reversed with a proper ketogenic diet. supposedly pancreatic cells can slowly heal and produce insulin again.
have you looked into this?

The issue is that type 1 is an autoimmune disorder. You don't produce insulin because your immune system killed the beta islet cells.
I did read about a couple freshly diagnosed type 1s who managed to stay off insulin and preserve their small amount of natural production by eating a strictly keto diet but they got sick of the diet and then lost their natural production.
The other issue with a ketogenic diet as a type 1 who has relatively strict bs control like myself is that it doesn't allow for hypoglycemia which will happen no matter how well you plan when you're using rapid acting insulin as a basal.

There is some promising research with using repeated doses of an old TB vaccine that supposedly has had luck with regenerating pancreas function but I haven't heard noise from them in over a year.

Sorry to hear that, buddy. On the bright side insulin makes it manageable.

No dude, type 1 are fucked for life.

Type 2 is reversible.

this is a blue board

It makes it doable, anyway. Before 1920 or whenever that dude shot his kid up with dog insulin we just died.
It is what is though. You adapt

yeah, that's why I wrote a proper ketogenic diet. i.e. one where the immune response isn't triggered and pancreatic cells aren't killed anymore. this might be a strict meat-only diet, or close to it. if your body is producing enough ketones and is well adapted at using free fatty acids, hypoglycemia isn't a big problem, as only very few cells need strictly need glucose.
I'm not sure if high energy demands created by strenuous physical activity is a problem though.

a case study: researchgate.net/publication/267810000_Type_1_diabetes_mellitus_successfully_managed_with_the_paleolithic_ketogenic_diet

>managed
Just using insulin is probably a more enjoyable lifestyle.

Type 2 can be fully cured so they should really cut carbs until their insulin sensitivity returns to norm.

That's actually the study I was referring to earlier. This only works in freshly diagnosed DM1 patients - people who are still in their honeymoon period who still have native insulin production left. I've had it for a few years now - I doubt I have any production of insulin left at all.
My diet which is primarily meat, vegetables, nuts, and oils does help maintain bs stability though with just a basal dose. The issue I've had lately is that I haven't been strict enough.

If anyone's interested I can start a thread strictly on the beetus

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absolute fucking kek. Never change Jow Forums

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if you only ate saturated fat and a moderate amount of protein, and didn't use any insulin, I'm not sure you could die of an energy deficit?
insulin does more than regulate blood glucose, so injecting it still seems better if there's no chance at recovering pancreatic function, but acute death seems unlikely.

Insulin is required for life in the long term. You cannot live without it for longer than maybe 6 months.
You don't die of an energy deficit, you die of diabetic ketoacidosis or acute organ failure

diabetic ketoacidosis is an energy deficit.

how does insulin deficiency lead to organ failure in the absence of an energy deficit? (I'm really just asking, I don't know)

>im a type 2 diabetic
this is not a disease, it's your body telling you to stop fucking eating carbs already

ITT: retards
t. trained with a T1 diabetic, he was jacked and lean and ate carbs as he wished

why is this board fucking FULL of RETARDS who have no fucking clue of what they talk about?
saturated fats are fucking GARBAGE for T1 diabetics, stop being so fucking stupid and wrong for fuck's sake

Dka isn't an energy deficit... It's the pH of your blood changing due to the high concentration of ketones, which are more acidic than your blood.

You can't run permanently off of ketones as a diabetic. It's poor for your brain anyways, but sugar will build up in your bloodstream regardless of whether you eat any or not - your body will undergo gluconeogenesis turning amino acids or triglycerides into glucose as part of the metabolic process. With no insulin, this glucose has nowhere to go, and once you hit the 180 ng/dL mark it starts getting filtered through your kidneys, which shreds your glomerules. As your filtration rate (GFR) declines your body starts to die.
At least, that's how I understand it. I'm sure a medfag could elaborate or correct me

He was fine eating carbs because he used exogenous insulin.

Diabetics needing to avoid saturated fat is a myth. Saturated fat has nothing to do with insulin.

holy fucking shit

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If you primarily eat complex carbs and remember to count + dose correctly 15-20 minutes before you eat you can avoid bs instability but that takes a lot to do every single time you eat so I avoid carbs. Saturated fats are fine, they're poor for diabetics due to uncontrolled diabetics having poor lipid profiles - if your lipids are in check then you can eat sat fats

you can't get off insulin as a T1 diabetic dumbass, it's permanent
saturated fats make the insulin you inject even less effective, only retards say stupid shit like saturated fats are ok to eat as a T1 diabetic.
>Saturated fat has nothing to do with insulin.
Except it increases insulin resistance, and increases liver fat compared to any other source of calories except trans fats.

Is that muscle or what?

using insulin if your diabetic is like giving a man addicted to alcohol more alcohol to get the same buzz. If your cells have developed an insulin resistance, doesn't it make more sense to cut insulin from your body for a while until they aren't? Eat fat and meat only retards

Saturated fat doesn't cause insulin resistance.

youtu.be/z33CGmmD30g

You're the only retard in this thread. Everyone else was having a civilized intelligent discussion.

pretty close
no insulin=sugar stays in the blood
no sugar in cells=beta oxidation
beta oxidation=ketoacidosis
it gets so bad because like you said, their inability to use insulin means ZERO sugar gets into their cells. for a regular person the ketone bodies from beta oxidation supplements the glucose from gluconeogenesis

It’s fat, the insulin triggers glucose storage in fat cells in the site that it was injected I think

I mean to say that the glucose is stored as fat in the adipocytes and this is caused by insulin injections

It's fat. Insulin causes fat storage.

You are right about type 2 but type 1 is caused by a lack of insulin production and they absolutely need insulin injection.

Thanks bro, I knew I wasn't 100% on that
Can you explain beta oxidation for me?

what is the reason the liver produces too many ketones during DKA? it's because the cells in the body are in an energy deficit (because glucose can't get into the cells, because there's no insulin).
if you're well adapted to ketosis and using free fatty acids, this energy deficit shouldn't occur.
why do you think running off ketones is poor for the brain?

yeah, if glucose builds up due to GNG and taxes the kidneys, it can be bad. but you could take metformin (or another GNG suppressor) for that.

red blood cells can only use glucose as an energy source, so this would be a problem. but do they require insulin for this in an otherwise energy fulfilled body?

Cheers for replying brahs.

Yes, dka is caused by an energy deficit. That being said you said it was one.
Running off of ketones is poor for the brain just because it is not your brain's preferred energy source. It can adapt but glucose is all around superior.
The problem is that you can't just adapt to absolutely 0 sugar because your body will still produce some and it has nowhere to go.

What’s going on ITT?

It seems like people are actually having a discussion and giving out somewhat well informed answers.

Where are all the shitposters?

not him, but it's just burning fat (free fatty acids) for energy.
and beta oxidation doesn't necessarily mean ketoacidosis. that only occurs if ketone production runs rampant and turns the blood too acidic.

>that being said you said it was one
yes, sorry, I should've been clearer.

ketones are actually the preferred energy source of the brain. if ketones and glucose are both widely available (in the blood stream), about 80% of the energy demand of the brain is fulfilled by ketones.

>The problem is that you can't just adapt to absolutely 0 sugar because your body will still produce some and it has nowhere to go.
couldn't that be fixed with metformin and drinking enough water (/supporting the kidneys)? I mean, if you produce no insulin, does the body really not use glucose anywhere in any amount?

in this context it does though

so this is the way to grow some ass.
Intriguing.

>ketones are the preferred energy source of the brain
dead wrong

Metformin decreases hepatic and intestinal glucose production + increases insulin sensitivity. It doesn't work well in DM1 because the issue is production, not sensitivity - type 1s are often extremely insulin sensitive.
You don't want to flush glucose out through the kidneys, it will degrade kidney function over time. And your kidneys won't filter it at all until it hits a threshold, which is 180 ng/dL for most people.
With 0 insulin production none of the glucose in your blood can be utilized.

Can you source the ketone brain thing? I have always heard the opposite

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Not all type 2s can get away with just carb reduction, some are gonna need insulin to keep a healthy A1C.

I assume you're referring to "beta-oxidation = ketoacidosis".
it's weird to phrase it that way, because beta-oxidation fulfills the cell's energy demands and thus decreases ketone production and ketoacidosis.
it's when the cells can't make proper use of the ketones and free fatty acids, and are in an energy deficit, that too many ketones are produced, resulting in ketoacidosis.
so "inadequate beta-oxidation = increased ketogenesis = ketoacidosis".

read the sentence after it, and look it up.

yeah, I know the issue in t1 is insulin production. I was speculating about the hypothetical situation where a t1 diabetic eats ketogenic (zero carbs), has (almost) all its cells energy demands fulfilled by ketones or free fatty acids, and could minimize GNG by taking metformin, so the kidneys are stressed least by filtering excess glucose.

ketone brain thing: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21489321

you can't remove all GNG, is the issue. You can suppress it somewhat with meds like glucophage but you cannot completely remove it - your liver will still be dumping glycogen trying to keep you alive.

Even eating a totally 0 carb diet doesn't mean there won't be an ever increasing supply of glucose in your system.

All that being said, though, eating totally ketogenic every day of your life & taking metformin seems like it would be much more difficult and you would have many more issues with patient compliance than with the traditional treatments, and insulin therapy is much easier to administer/provide a balanced diet with.

I didn't read the entire article, but I did pick out a few key points
>Glucose is the major fuel for the brain in humans on a balanced diet.
>One should note, however, that ketones are incapable of maintaining or restoring normal cerebral function in the complete absence of glucose.
>In longstanding starvation, ketones can provide 60 to 70% of the energy needs of the brain [20]

So in times of starvation the brain can adapt to ketone use as its major energy source but still is not preferred

if the kidneys get rid of it, it wouldn't be ever increasing.

>All that being said, though, eating totally ketogenic every day of your life & taking metformin seems like it would be much more difficult and you would have many more issues with patient compliance than with the traditional treatments, and insulin therapy is much easier to administer/provide a balanced diet with.
I agree with this. I was just speculating about a hypothetical "would someone die or not".

you're misintepreting what they/I say.
I linked that because it was something I quickly found that quotes the 60-70% figure.
if ketones are present, then the brain will use them. if ketones are widely available for a long time, it will use them for the majority of its energy demands. to me that means the brain prefers mostly ketones over glucose.
the problem is that eating (even just some) carbs inhibits ketogenesis, so there aren't ketones present in the bloodstream. let alone widely available for a long time.

>ketones are incapable of maintaining or restoring normal cerebral function in the complete absence of glucose
I don't think that's been proven in humans, because it would be unethical.
I recall a doctor trying something like that a long time ago. he injected (two?) healthy males with insulin until their blood glucose was almost zero, but cognitive function seemed fine.

the 60-70% figure is from fasting though. I would be interested to see if it's different on a calorie-sufficient ketogenic diet.

Totally worth them, good user. Totally worth them.

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you look gay

my seids plz go

Ummm put me in the screen cap sweaty

In order for your kidneys to filter sugar, you would need a blood glucose level of 180 ng/dL, or an a1c of 7.9 which is uncontrolled. That will lead to neuropathy, retinopathy, etc. Not to mention that glomerular filtration of glucose will lead to the breakdown of the capillaries in your glomerules, and glucose will pull things like potassium out of your bloodstream with it.

I don't quite understand the topic enough to give a complete technical breakdown of why it wouldn't work, I just know it wouldn't. Insulin is 100% mandatory in the long term

The brain will use ketones if they're available but they're only available if there's no glucose for it to use - this tells me the opposite, that glucose is the preferred and ketones are only for in emergency situations where there is no available glucose.

So I think that yes, it is possible for a period of time eating an entirely 0 carb diet to delay death due to no insulin - but things would start to break down eventually, and the comorbidities that would emerge from a high blood glucose would compound factors.

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>>In order for your kidneys to filter sugar, you would need a blood glucose level of 180 ng/dL, or an a1c of 7.9 which is uncontrolled. That will lead to neuropathy, retinopathy, etc. Not to mention that glomerular filtration of glucose will lead to the breakdown of the capillaries in your glomerules, and glucose will pull things like potassium out of your bloodstream with it.
hmm, yeah, that's quite a high bg level.
>I don't quite understand the topic enough to give a complete technical breakdown of why it wouldn't work, I just know it wouldn't. Insulin is 100% mandatory in the long term
ah, okay. I do think you're right on this, but I'm not sure either.

>The brain will use ketones if they're available but they're only available if there's no glucose for it to use
(in healthy people) there's always glucose for the brain to use. the problem is eating carbs, which suppresses ketogenesis. if ketones and glucose are both available to the brain, it will use mostly ketones.
>this tells me the opposite, that glucose is the preferred and ketones are only for in emergency situations where there is no available glucose.
not having dietary carbs in your system isn't an "emergency situation". it only seems that way do to modern eating habits, where people eat carbs every day, three or more times a day. looking at archaic humans, eating carbs would be the emergency situation, whereas ketosis and beta-oxidation was the default state. i.e. "oh no, all this glucose is coming in, better make use of it all because (archaic) humans have small glucose body stores". alcohol is used for energy even before glucose, not because it's the preferred energy source, but because the body has to get rid of it fast.

>So I think that yes, it is possible for a period of time eating an entirely 0 carb diet to delay death due to no insulin - but things would start to break down eventually, and the comorbidities that would emerge from a high blood glucose would compound factors.

I can confirm that I like the pussy

>So I think that yes, it is possible for a period of time eating an entirely 0 carb diet to delay death due to no insulin - but things would start to break down eventually, and the comorbidities that would emerge from a high blood glucose would compound factors.
yeah, makes sense. I think I agree with this as well.

This the real Jow Forums we used to have informed discussions about lifting and nutrition back around the zyzz-tinytrip days. Lot of the same threads still carry on like the fat hate, mirin, and question threads. But also a lot of cancer threads from political shills(left or right) or robots leaking from r9k who just shitpost and never actually lift. Keep lifting, fasting and mewing Jow Forums, we're all going to make it in 2019.

I see where you're coming from on the ketone brain usage - but, as I understand it, anyways, ketone usage is primarily a starvation prevention mechani, which can be brought upon through other methods (such as a completely ketogenic diet. The ketone production response is brought upon by a low level of insulin, rather than a low level of carb intake - so there shouldn't be a situation, outside of starvation, deliberate ketosis, or untreated DM where there is both significant quantities of ketones & glucose in the blood. Does that make sense? I may be wrong on some of it

Actually, I'm willing to concede on ketone usage in the brain. I've found a few more supporting articles that support what you've been saying - but it's still difficult without a strictly ketogenic diet or starvation to run your brain off them.

>Hey lois, remember that time my chin was replaced with user's ab tits?

Just relapsed because of this picture

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Just fast every so often to keep your body flexible metabolically

depending on season and location, I think the natural diet of (archaic) humans is ketogenic (mostly fatty meat).
ketogenesis isn't only induced by low insulin, because protein also increases insulin levels, yet fatty meat induces ketogenesis. low blood glucose and glucagon also play important roles. for healthy people, an absence of dietary carbs is all that's required for ketogenesis, and results in both ketones and glucose being present in significant quantities.
I also think it's a misnomer to call (intermittent) fasting 'starvation', as it's a healthy (evolutionary) normal thing for humans.

yeah, if you're continuously ingesting carbs, ketogenesis will be mostly inhibited and the brain won't use them. an exception is MCTs, found in coconut oil and butter. Maybe at the end of sleep the brain uses some ketones? I don't know.
I just think that the (healthy, natural) default state of humans is (intermittent) fasting and eating fatty meat, both inducing ketogenesis.

exercise increases energy demands, and endurance athletes have improved (free) fatty acid utilization in their muscles. but I don't know if their brain metabolism changes.

Type 1 here, currently doing 4 days per week and at 60kg/120kg/190kg/210kg
Lifting helps diabetes tremendously, your friend is just a depressed fag and doesn't know any better
I eat fairly low carb but I'm still a fat cunt so pic related

Sup t1 brah's

>some type 1's can be (very slowly) reversed with a proper ketogenic diet. supposedly pancreatic cells can slowly heal and produce insulin again.
>have you looked into this?
You're talking about beta cells and it's not true of type 1's. A combination of prolonged near starvation has been shown to illicit some beta cell production in type 2's but since it's illegal and difficult to endanger peoples lives in this way it's basically a no-go for most of them even if it were clinically available

You should also be aware that meat and other proteins still illicit insulin response, far more-so if you're already low-carb, hence why this is mostly nonsense beyond small specific cases like the one you cited where he has existing functional beta cell production (which t1 diabetics don't have past a couple of weeks to a couple months max)

>diabetic ketoacidosis is an energy deficit.
It's the opposite- it's ketones from high blood glucose combined with a lack of circulating insulin
Many type 2's are medical, genetic or otherwise largely or wholly diet independent
>saturated fats are fucking GARBAGE for T1 diabetics
And others above a certain amount per day. It's the usual ketofag nonsense of "saturated fat is healthy, big sugar just fakes all the studies bro"

>Saturated fat doesn't cause insulin resistance.
Yes it does. Stop reading keto blogs

>Where are all the shitposters?
As a diabetic you deal with shitposting like this day in day out, it becomes fairly easy to spot idiots after you've been told cinnamon and keto diets cure diabetes 30 times a week for your whole life

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No, I agree that IF is a natural state for human beings, but I would also define any period of time where you are not actively utilizing energy from food as starvation - as you've switched to your fat reserves to stay alive.

I would say that IF with primarily meat and green vegetable diet is the absolute best diet for a human being, as far as our "design" is concerned, for sure

lookin good t1 brah, I need to bulk again
what was your last a1c? how tight's your control?

I got my labs done a few days ago, I was bummed - my a1c is up to 6.7 so I've got to tighten back up again. I prefer to be below 6

oh user, don't you know that your body's energy comes from glucose? you can't eat fat, that shit clogs your arteries. Now here have your gatorade and white bread. No fat!

what do you do for work, anyways, user? you're pretty knowledgeable on the subject

You know that you should be injecting your insulin into rotating sites on your stomach correct?

Cheers lad. I need to cut but I'm enjoying LIDLs cheese, nuts and schnitzels too much just now
Last a1c was a few years ago at 10.2% (my highest ever), would guesstimate it at around 6-7% now since I'm eating less than half the carbs I was before and using a freestyle libre now
Still fairly shit control but I'm doing alright for 17 years worth of betus I think

You don't do one every 3-6 mos? And how is the freestyle libre, anyways? I have a medtronics 630g pump, but the CGM that came with it was a complete pain in the fucking dick - needs to be calibrated every 8 hours, incessantly beeps at you, so I stopped using it and I just do 2-3 fingersticks a day.

I'm waiting til the warranty runs out on my 630g so I can get one of the fancy new 670s - they alter your basal rate depending on your blood sugar, its pretty neat shit

Every year here I think, and I missed the last 2
Libre is slow and limited but fantastic because of how small and freeing it is. Not having to bleed all over bars is a huge plus, and analysing your sugars with any type of CGR/CGM just becomes ridiculously easy
Sounds pretty hot. There's a discord on Jow Forumsdiabetes with a ton of nerds who hack various closed loop systems (CGM talks to Pump to create artificial pancreas), might be worth a look

>It's the opposite- it's ketones from high blood glucose combined with a lack of circulating insulin
read the rest of the discussion.

>You should also be aware that meat and other proteins still illicit insulin response
yeah, I know. I mentioned it in my other posts. protein and fat also stimulate glucagon though, which has some opposing effects to insulin.

dropped out of uni and am without job, living with parents. I think the subject is interesting, and I've been reading stuff from reddit, blogs, studies (via pubmed), and some books. I lack a base of (medical) knowledge though, due to no degree and not having read introductory text books.

meant to quote you at the top of my post here

Sounds like you've got potential, my friend. As a suggestion, you should check out a local medical assisting program - you get a nice cert, a decent paying entry level job, but the biggest plus is that you work side by side with a physician and, (especially if you get one who's big on education) you learn a shitload purely through osmosis. That's where I started, about to start on my nursing degree & I plan on pursuing that field into becoming an FNP.
No shit? I'll check that out. It's nice to find other T1s out in the wild who get it though. Fucking hate seeing on Jow Forums every day "all diabetes is curable if you stop being a fatass"