we had a debate today in my uni class on transgender females and if they are woman. Out of 31 students only me and 3 other guys said that trans woman arent woman. 28 other kids argued with us for an hour and half calling us bigots and transphobes. I even asked them that if they are the same , would you have sex with transwoman and all of the 28 students said yes they would.
Am i just on the wrong side of history here and mentally retarded or are the wrong?
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it feels as if we are in the wrong at this point, if you enter a room of crazy people. you are against the norm
therefore the crazy one
>all of the 28 students said yes they would
lmao sure they would
everyone is so politically correct nowadays that it would seem that even though what we say is factual, they would still see us as the crazy ones
oh shit when will you learn you college dumbass. Just say what they want you to say. Theres this thing called lying use it you fucks.
90% of those people are only doing it to save their self image in a public situation. They really couldn't care less otherwise.
It's called "virtue signalling".
It has to be burning out though, political correctness will hit critical mass
Your classmates wouldn't go near them with a ten foot pole, you three were the only ones not virtue signalling.
woman is a word socially defined, theres nothing factual about it, what happens is that society is currently in the process of altering that definition or expanding it.
when you say a transwoman is a woman you obviously dont mean biologically since you already said "transwoman" what you mean is that socially and legally they are to be treated or perceived as women.
they're just brainwashed retards
and here we go with the word games. no one cares, seriously
Means you are unreasonable
i personally think we need a third/fourth gender to clear out confusion
the only people who are confused are in the third/fourth genders
they'll suck a tranny cock just to be accepted by their peers LMAO
Socially they are a tranny. Not at all equal social status to a real woman
Women is a word biologically defined. They shouldn't legally be treated as women either. What's stopping me from saying "imagirl" and entering the women olympics or going to a women's jail and fucking them all with my penis
I don't get normies. I don't know why to believe things just because "society" says so. Who is this "society" holding a gun up to my head and forcing me to believe anyways?
Nice lowkey Jow Forums thread. Still anyone who would argue trans "women" are biologically the same as women are retarded.Would bumfuck a ladyboy though.
It is also illegal to kill a person, but what if that person dies of their own accord? Is it legal to fry up a guy's ham?
Lots of little threads that people don't pull.
I'm changing the subject to cannibalism
Didn't happen. If it did, you would touch transmen as well.
University is a government sponsored cartel at this point.
>displaying your powerlevel
>ever
Kill urself
why do transgirls have the same violent crime patterns as MEN?
The groupthink that goes on in universities is seriously frightening. That king of shit is par for the course at mine, along with the "everyone i don't agree with is a fascist" mentality. so fucking toxic.
No. Female and male are biologically defined.
Transgender women should be treated as women socially, and male biologically.
When biology comes into account (reproduction/relationships, medical treatments, sport competitions, etc) it's fair to treat them differently from a woman.
When it doesn't, it's fair to treat them like a woman. If a trans woman wants to be called a "she", it's alright to me.
yet you statist brainlets continue to support the university system HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
That quote has always been retarded.
Chromosomes have nothing to do with it.
Woman/man is social, male/female is chromosomal.
There are intersex people who don't even know that they aren't what they appear to be.
Some can even have children on the rare occasion. You're not going to stop calling your mother your mother or she just because she later gets genetic testing and finds out she is XY.
She appears feminine and lived her entire life as a woman. She is a woman even if male.
For all we know some of the best women in history were actually male and vice versa. Hell, maybe even right now because even in the age of genetic testing most people don't.
Male and female are usually aligned with man and woman but have never been guaranteed to be.
Is a ford mustang a dodge viper if you put stripes on it ?
>Chromosomes have nothing to do with it.
> You're not going to stop calling your mother your mother or she just because she later gets genetic testing and finds out she is XY.
Yea the government and universities are cowards. They worship a tranny demon and are trying to force it on all the normal people. But for what.
>Some can even have children on the rare occasion. You're not going to stop calling your mother your mother or she just because she later gets genetic testing and finds out she is XY.
>She appears feminine and lived her entire life as a woman. She is a woman even if male.
You people need to be thrown from helicopters.
>Female and male are biologically defined
what sex is a transwomen? Male. end of discussion. Stop forcing people how to act. You need to be treated like the mentally disturbed people you are instead of forcing it on others and even worse children who dont know any better
Men can't birth a child, kill yourself
There are some pathologies (for example androgen insensitivity) where a woman who has the sexual characteristics of a female has XY genes.
So yes, it might happen in some extremely rare cases that a woman is XY. She is supposed to be infertile tho.
>what sex is a transwomen? Male.
I agree with you, and I insist that whenever biology comes into account it's fair to treat them as men.
But if it causes them great distress to be treated as men in every day situations (for example, being addressed as "he" or dressing like a man), since it doesn't cause me any problem to treat them as women, I have no problem with doing so.
>forcing it on others and even worse children who dont know any better
I don't want to force anything on others, even less on children. I am making an argument based on logic, not on my feelings. I'm not trans, I don't even particularly care about trans rights.
What do you define women as?
You're messing up.
Intersex people come in various shape and sizes, but a woman with XY cannot get pregnant and give birth.
There are some types of intersex people who can give birth, but not people with XY genes who are women.
>since it doesn't cause me any problem to treat them as women
except massive social problems but whatever
What kind of "massive social problems"? I can't honestly think of anything.
>People this desperate they'd fuck a hormonal man hybrid and dance along to their delusions
>since it doesn't cause me any problem to treat them as women, I have no problem with doing so.
The majority of people aren't you and they're not willing to disregard reality to save someone's feelings
>I am making an argument based on logic
You're making it entirely on emotion, not logic. There is no logic in "I'll address a man as a woman because he dresses up like one"
lack of fertility for one
Why the FUCK would anyone major in the hummanities?
I see, user is a humanities major
Homosex, aids, mass suicide, blaoted public healthcare, denying truth.
LGBTQBBQ needs to be put against the wall and shot.
even if everyone in the world tells me wrong shit is good. I'm still going to tell them to fuck off. Don't let retards use mod tactics to change your mind
>The majority of people aren't you and they're not willing to disregard reality to save someone's feelings
The majority of people are actually pretty on board with trans rights, much more than I am.
>There is no logic in "I'll address a man as a woman because he dresses up like one"
I'll address a man as a woman because he desires to, he presents himself as one and it doesn't cause me any problem to.
It sounds pretty logical to me.
Trans are 0.something of the population, it doesn't matter much whether they have children or not. The lack of fertility is caused much more by the fact that straight people don't want to have children.
>Homosex
Transsexualism =/= homosexuality
>aids
What about AIDS is caused by trannies? If AIDS was a tranny-only disease, it'd be pretty neat.
>mass suicide
Of who?
>blaoted public healthcare
Many things bloat public healthcare. It's surely a bigger problem to have people smoke or to let people eat cheeseburgers, or even just people texting while driving or drinking, than having one person every couple thousands who wants to change sex.
>denying truth
What "truth" are they denying?
ITT: falling for the college meme
>But if it causes them great distress to be treated as men in every day situations
So if I walk around like a nazi and make you adress me as Adolf you will do it just so you dont hurt my feelings? If you say no then you're just as bad as me. If you say yes then maybe you'll realize how stupid you are
>What "truth" are they denying?
The truth that they are actually a man.
Time to leave, fren. This society is dead. The jews won.
No, and it's not the same thing.
Trans people don't have a delusion that makes them believe they're women and they're unaware of the fact that they aren't. They feel a major distress because the way they present themselves isn't something they like and feel okay with, and they don't feel that the way they look and how everyone sees them is the same as the way they perceive themselves as. They suffer from dysphoria, not from hallucinations or delusions.
>The majority of people are actually pretty on board with trans rights, much more than I am.
No they aren't, and don't obfuscate the argument by saying "trans rights" making it look like the people that disagree with the abominations are out to kill them or deprive them of voting rights or something.
>I'll address a man as a woman because he desires to, he presents himself as one and it doesn't cause me any problem to. It sounds pretty logical to me.
There is no logic in that whatsoever. Logic is based on reason. You're not being reasonable by submitting to someone else's feelings and disregarding your eyes. You're essentially saying "I'll believe my neighbor is Napoleon if he speaks French and walks around in a fancy hat". You are closing your eyes, your ears, and your very mind because someone tells you to accept their decision or they will label you a bigot.
>The truth that they are actually a man.
They're not denying the fact that they're biologically male, I believe. They feel more comfortable presenting themselves as women.
Medical science disagrees with you.
sciencedaily.com
"Brain activity and structure in transgender adolescents more closely resembles the typical activation patterns of their desired gender, according to new research. The findings suggest that differences in brain function may occur early in development and that brain imaging may be a useful tool for earlier identification of transgenderism in young people."
>They feel
>feel okay
>don't feel
You notice a recurring theme here? The entire crux is based on feeling.
they're definitely wrong. like even from a leftist/liberal point of view the childhood experiences of cis women render them vulnerable to fundamentally different kinds of oppression than transgender women and lumping them together completely undermines what it means when people say women are oppressed (obviously you might disagree with the notion that they're oppressed, but my point is that, even from a liberal/standard university social justice point of view, the notion that trans women are women is untenable)
different user but if you really want to be seen as a woman because that's how you perceive yourself, it's quite distressing if people remind you of what your physical body is like or used to be
It is the same thing. I only feel happy being adressed as a nazi commander. Which is a dysphoria. I could go it right now and maybe I'd run into you, it's not a hallucination
They're also socially male.
You can clearly see that they are male.
If they try really hard to be female with clothes, makeup and hormones, they are just LYING to the public.
>No they aren't
They are. Surveys show that people are pretty okay with it, even the fact that in a 32 people class 28 thought that trans women are like other women shows that most people are on board with it.
>You're not being reasonable by submitting to someone else's feelings and disregarding your eyes.
I explained here why trans people aren't delusional about their biological sex: . So no, it isn't the same as calling your neighbour Napoleon.
If they present themselves as women, I don't see the point of treating them as men just because they're biologically male.
It's not the same thing.
One is a delusion about being a nazi commander. One is not a delusion, is just a deep discomfort because the way you look and present yourself doesn't reflect the way you perceive yourself as.
Being a woman (in the sense of the way you present yourself and others perceive yourself, not biologically obviously) is something social, it's not something tangible. Being a nazi commander or not is something quite factual.
Gender dysphoria is a psychological condition, do you expect it to be based on something else?
>brainwash gullible kids into believing they are a different gender
>spray them with a sex pheromone
>they react like a woman due to their conditioning
>(You): THIS PROVES KIDS ARE BORN TRANS, BIGOTS!
They're choosing how to present themselves as, they're not lying.
>They're also socially male.
>You can clearly see that they are male.
Um.. what?
Have you never met a passing trans woman? Or perhaps when you did, you just assumed they were cis.
There are a lot of trans women whom you would never suspect of being born male.
>more closely resembles
this doesn't mean anything
all it means is that they have more similar brain patterns to a woman than a typical man would.
It's not saying they have even remotely close to the SAME brain patterns, brain structure etc etc as a woman.
They're probably like 15% more like a woman in the brain than a typical man is.
Medical science disagrees with you.
>Have you never met a passing trans woman?
there is no such thing
even the passing ones you can tell are male
they're just lying to society
You didn't read the article, did you.
"Conditioning" or "pheromones" can't change the literal structure of someone's brain.
they are literally the same thing. Its funny how someone who said they don't force their opinion on others is trying this hard to force their opinion on others
I did read the article, and the brain's structure is continuously changing, especially in adolescence. Did you pass biology class?
I'm not forcing anything, I'm having a discussion and bringing logical points because I study these things.
They're not the same thing, I explained to you why. A delusion implies unawareness of the reality of things.
Transsexual people aren't unaware of the fact that they're biologically male. Otherwise they wouldn't undergo surgeries or take hormones to try and pass as women, they'd just put on a dress and wonder why people don't call them Patrice.
They perceive and think of themselves as women, and they try to align their physical appearance and social standing with the way they perceive themselves as.
No matter how many euphemisms they use in order to beat around the bush and so forth, "trans" implies "pseudo".
I don't want to put my dick into another man's asshole (that is what a boypussy is). I want to put my dick in a woman's vagina.
They aren't "trans". They are mentally ill, and gay. Liberals need to be hanged.
To know where gender pronouns stem from think about the first two humans as babies growing up next to each other.
For the first 10 years or so of development they probably see each other as peers. During puberty sex hormones race through and they start realizing they want to fuck each other. This would be where they would notice a difference, one is the hole, one is the peg. Hole and Peg are then the categorical names for both. Due to the sex hormones, Hole and Peg have different behaviors, physical traits, hair growth, facial features, heights etc. so it becomes even easier to know who is Hole and who is Peg but even if Hole and Peg look the same except for their hole and peg and behaved the same except to meet their hole and peg they'd still be Hole and Peg and that's where the pronouns come from.
However, due to both those sex hormone derived traits and the fact that they correlate well with Hole and Peg's hole and peg, "Hole" and "Peg" could then be easy shorthand for the culmination of those traits as they pertain to other people. It may be inconvenient to inspect a new person's groin so they would be assessed on secondary characteristics so that people could know what they could do and if they have a hole or peg. If the hole/peg secondary characteristics are displayed then the secondary actions, behaviors and roles of a hole/peg are assumed, as well as the hole/peg itself.
One thing, the first hole and first peg would almost definitely get pregnant/impregnate and that function would be assumed to be intrinsic to whether they are Hole or Peg and therefore it would be a primary trait. This would also be assumed with the secondary hole/peg characteristics that tend to show up with the hole/peg.
Therefore, Hole and Peg are shorthand when inspection is inconvenient and hole/peg status can be assumed through hole/peg traits but Hole and Peg primarily mean possessor of functional hole or peg, anything else is simply shorthand. More nuance to this but lettercap.
>Transsexual people aren't unaware of the fact that they're biologically male.
Neither is nazi commander. He has felt this way since birth and he doesn't need people like you oppressing him and calling him delusional.
one of these things is a social construct while the other is a biological construct
Yes, he is. He is unaware that he actually isn't a nazi commander and delusional, and it's advised to not endorse someone's delusions.
On the other hand, if he actually was aware of not being a nazi commander, but just wanted to present himself as such, he'd be able to and people would ostracize him (like they do with nazis in general).
Most people are just afraid of being called a bigot. Leftist insanity creeps up like that. Im a 30 y/o boomer and I remember the days where we laughed at faggots and they were openly shunned even by normies for being disgusting disease spreading pedos who are mentally ill. But now? They are basically holy people. Trans is on another level, how this is even being taken seriously is a sign of extreme decadence and decay.
Who is brainwashing kids?
It's more like half of them just wanted to get a decent grade without the professor failing them for thought crime.
>biological construct
it's not a construct. penis=male. You are confused, so is the nazi commander. They are both social constructs
Sex and gender are social constructs
Men and women both have strong biological instincts that determine their behavior and determine most gender roles.
How is this not a biological construct?
So men and woman don't have different biological instincts that determine their behavior?
Do you not believe in evolution?
>woman is a word socially defined
>they are to be treated or perceived as women
Dream on, faggot
it's a mental illness. your body knows it's male the problem is you don't
Their parents obviously. Who else?
Paranoia is a mental illness, friend.
Paranoia is a condition not necessarily linked to mental illness, redditor. And there's nothing paranoid about the fact that yes, parents brainwash their kids into believing they are the opposite gender. It is a proven fact. You'd be transphobic to think otherwise, bigot.
Rare birth defects that can't reproduce don't change anything. Based on criteria like chromosomes, sex organs, hormones, etc. it is possible to divide everyone into 2 genders. Even without that you have 99.9% of people knowing their gender automatically without such measures being necessary. Transgenderism is a mental illness.
Cute words. What about when someone has their peg surgically removed and replaced with a hole? Maybes it's nonfunctioning and can neither impregnate or be impregnated. What do you do when there are no primary traits?
In real life we use real words that can handle this situation. Primary traits are described by "male/female/trans". Secondary traits are described by "man/woman/androgynous".
As others have noted, this means that someone can be trans as well as a man/woman/androgynous. Frankly, words don't mean shit except what society says they do and this is where we're heading.
Gender dysphoria is, and the best way to treat it is, to this day, gender reassignment surgery.
>male/female/trans
male/female/intersex
The rest is correct.
>What do you do when there are no primary traits?
Their facial features and body are the other traits.
I'm not sure I understand your point but I think we're in agreement
No I disagree with you.
Men with their dicks cut off are still not women thanks to their genes, bone structure, facial structure, voice, brain structure/wiring etc
Is it really that outrageous a stance that you dont believe transwomen=women?
He not gay though, because trans are women!
here
"Hole" and "Peg" mean functional hole and functional peg. Anything secondary to that is shorthand for when inspection and proof of function are not possible and is based on what secondary traits Holes and Pegs tend to have. A secondary trait can each then be Hole-like or Peg-like as they are shown most, exclusively or primarily by Holes or Pegs. Those secondary traits as broad, general sets, groups or categories are therefore Hole-likeness or Peg-likeness. Assessment of one's character in these terms would be judged on least-Hole/Peg-likeness, less Hole/Peg-likeness to most-Hole/Peg-likeness, more Hole/Peg-likeness.
An object/item can also be judged in these terms based on least-Hole/Peg-likeness to most-Hole/Peg-likeness as they could accentuate, accommodate or otherwise be associated with Hole-like or Peg-like secondary traits. Objects can also be related to hole or peg primary characteristics and these would be the most Hole-like or Peg-like objects as they would be related to all functional holes or all functional pegs, while Hole-likeness and Peg-likeness are what is for the majority of those with functional holes or pegs or what tends to be.
Now let's move onto people again. Say that a Hole or Peg really believes that they were meant to be a Peg or Hole. What do they mean by this? Do they mean that they were simply meant to have a functional peg/hole? If that's the case then nothing they could do except by "trading in" their hole/peg for a functional peg/hole would make that happen.
or do they mean that their hole/peg and its functions led them to have more Hole-likeness/Peg-likeness than they should? and that they should have most Peg-likeness/Hole-likeness?
If latter then having more Peg/Hole-likeness will never make them a Peg/Hole and no amount of Peg/Hole-likeness will change that. If both or former then they can have more Peg/Hole-likeness but until they have a functional Peg/Hole they will remain Holes/Pegs. Bit more nuance; lettercap
if they have a y chromosome they arent women. end of story. period.