Are protein requierments exaggerated?
People in the past BARELY ate meat and they were strong and jacked from working every day.
Are protein requierments exaggerated?
They ate meat everyday. Also meat isn't the only source of protein available
>strong and jacked from working every day.
Everyone was malnourished manlets until pretty recently
The 1 gram per lb is where its exaggerated
I find .6 to .8 is pretty solid advice though.
What do you mean people in the past barely ate meat? We are generally eating less meat than ever, thats why people are so dumb and fat. Eat steak,eggs and carbs if you want to get big and be healthy as well.
As a historical mean, they didn't. The further back you go the more frequently people ate meat, to the point that it would be the main source of nutrition with some fruit and legumes as snacks on the move. These main meals however were very infrequent as they sourced the meat from hunting, which meant you may eat meat about three days in a row and then nothing but seeds and fruit for a week or so. As it stands now humans can survive without meat as our digestive system has adapted to do so after millenia of agriculture. Unfortunately for carnivoreshills, we have also adapted to require nutrition from other sources outside of meat. Eat a balanced diet, like a med based one. Go vegan if you are happy to be sub optimal but are concerned about ethics. Go carnivore if you want to die.
Yeah protein requirements are estimated much higher than they actually are. The 1g/lb is really high, it's much closer to 1.5g/kg assuming you're building muscle.
Less important than total amount is how much you get post-workout
Whether you're eating 0.6g/lbs LBM or 2.0g/lbs total body mass, you should 30-50g of protein as soon as you can after lifting
>Go vegan if you are happy to be sub optimal but are concerned about ethics
the most optimal diet for health is a whole foods plant based diet.
Since I've been trying 1g/lb I've been bleeding every time I take a shit and that's with trying to increase my fiber to match.
I don't see how it's reasonable to expect someone at like 195 to eat that much protein.
Most optimal is actually a med based one (whole foods plant based with occasional dairy and fish, with extremely infrequent red meat).
Am vegan myself user I just don't see a lot of studies supporting only eating plants.
>go carnivore if you want to die
There has been many cases of VEGAN babies dying/hospitalized from malnutrition and adults getting heart attacks as well as aging very fast you are blind if you can't notice that from them.
There has never been a fully vegan tribe or civilization in human history.
This is a lie
If you trust food guides from Buzzfeed then yes.
There is like 6-8 different essential vitamins only in animal foods. Without them you will get nutritionally deficient,weak and sick.
Stop the fucking vegans please
Yes and no, a fairly high protein intake can be very good for you and helps to create and maintain a robust body, it's just that we tend to get way too much of certain amino acids and way too little of others because of the foods we eat.
REMINDER that ALL vegans are industry funded shills
The strongest and most resilient groups were hunter gatherers who had regular sources of meat and fish along with some agriculture.
The grain fueled masses were smaller, weaker, and more prone to illness. They had the advantage of large numbers but that was all.
The average "societal" human was frail and lived a short time, while the tribal humans were strong and healthy
People ate more meat than you may think. Also yes, protein requirements are exaggerated. Shit like "hurr durr 1g/lb/day!" is just baseless propaganda shat out by supplement companies. They know your normal non-autist isn't going to cook fucking 2 lbs of meat every day and would need to fall back on protein powder supplements to meet such thesholds.
take supplements? the level of brainlet cope here ...
I have actually looked up jobs with vegan organizations and they do have posting for people to go around pushing their agenda on websites
Not the same as real food dude you are missing out on gains. Did you get it now?
This, the average standard of living of industrialized societies didnt surpass that of hunter gatherers until relatively recently. For thousands of years, people living in the more advanced societies had worse overall health, more disease, earlier deaths, poorer diets, etc. But this was made up for by the fact that the more advanced societies could have large populations, whereas hunter gatherers need to remain few in number because the habitat can't sustain more like that
>There is like 6-8 different essential vitamins only in animal foods.
Blood tests and checkups reveal no vitamin deficiencies, wonder what "essential" vitamins you're talking about...?
>If you trust food guides from Buzzfeed then yes.
I trust the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics and College of Cardiology, leftism is a brain disease.
>Am vegan myself user I just don't see a lot of studies supporting only eating plants.
I don't want to sit here and spam you with tons of studies, but there are so many actually... pastebin.com
>REMINDER that ALL vegans are industry funded shills
pic related
cool story
>wonder what "essential" vitamins you're talking about...? herp derp
Vitamin B12, Vitamin D3, Vitamin K2, DHA from fatty acids for example. Maybe your brain is lacking some DHA because you seem to think i'm wrong?
This. IIRC, there was a study showing you start getting diminishing returns at 0.7 g/lb, which should be relatively easy to get.
That makes sense/seems reasonable.
1g per lb seems rough - means I'd need 275g on a 2800cal cut (I'm crazy tall not super fat, still cutting atm though)
>Vitamin B12
supplement (11 cents a day) or fortified foods
>DHA 150-300mg a day
fish get it from algae, which you can take algae supplements, people who do not eat fish are missing out on this.
conversing rates of ALA to DHA go up when you don't eat fish. just a little bit of chia covers DHA.
>Vitamin D3
mushrooms or just sunlight dude
>Vitamin K2
Vitamin K1 from plants allows the body to produce Vitamin K2
once again, got my blood test done and im not def in anything, been a vegan for years now.
I eat like 2-3 eggs per day and some chicken every other day and I'm making decent noob gains.
Also if you take a look at how fit african manual laborers are despite eating potatoes and wheat all the time I think it's definitely over-exaggerated.
What do you mean by the past? The last 10 years, 50 years or 100 years? Meat consumption is up if we are talking about a 10 year span. (marketwatch.com
Regarding people being fat, well, that's only been going up since the 70's (cdc.gov
None if those studies compare veganism to other controlled diets
Sunlight is required to metabolize vitamin D, not synthesize it
you didnt even bother, stop lying
>actually believing sunlight doesn't synthesize vitamin D
that's the DUMBEST shit ive read all day. GO do your homework, ill just go eat my mushrooms and be at optimal health.
farmed animals required B12 supplements too, user, so you're eating supplements one way or another
Yeah because they introduced standard american diet which has 70% of its calories from grains and sugar
>>just realizing why manlets live longer than lankets.
Enjoy your additional 100g of cancerous protein requirements everyday.
Only if they are not fed their natural diet, thats why i pay extra for high quality foods
>lying
>lazy
projection
You didn't even check your links to see if they worked.
Not one study you can bring up compares vegan diets to another controlled diet (because there is no measurable difference)
Eating vegetables doesn't make you healthy. Eating the standard American garbage makes you sick. Doing anything else makes you healthy.
B12 is produced by bacteria in the gut of ruminants, supplements have never been shown to raise B12 stores in the body.
Conversion rate of ALA to DHA and EPA are ~8%, you’d kill yourself from lectin and phytic acid poisoning drinking cups of seed oil trying to get you RDA. The American RDA’s are also low as fuck and incorrect, especially for Vitamin D. Seed oils are unnatural and toxic to the body
Mushrooms have Vitamin D3 and has I be converted at low rates. Vitamin D is also fat soluble, so it requires dietary fat to be fully metabolized. The only fat you can get year-round in almost all areas of the world are animal fats if you eat locally and in season.
Low conversion rate of K1 to K2, and those leafy greens have oxalates that bind to minerals and inhibit the absorption of them. These oxalates can also form kidney stones and fuck up the gut. K is also a fat soluble vitamin, needs dietary fat. Same for Vit A and E
Cholesterol is necessary in the diet. Same for carnitine and heme iron that isn’t found in plants. There is a single nucleotide polymorphism that a large number of people have that leaves them the ability to BARELY convert beta carotene to vit A or not even be able to at all. People without that still only have a ~25% conversion rate with finishing returns as more beta carotene is consumed. There is no cruelty free life and shipping dozens of ingredients on giant cargo ships all over the world is more detrimental than getting meat from a local farm that raised animals naturally.
*Mushrooms have Vit D2 and have to be converted at low rates
>be vegan
Lets just try to digest huge quantities of indigestible plant matter because it have inconceivable benifits to animal welfare.
Despite the fact if everyone were vegan, there would be no animals that are farmed
That's a manlet cope I haven't seen before.
Back to the manlet pit with you.
I eat a ton of meat and am by no means a veggie or a vegan.
But I strongly disagree if you say eating veggies doesn't make you healthy. I eat a large portion of fresh veggies every dinner with my lean meat portion and my life notably improved when I started eating better. I know you're going to say well it's because I probably replaced mcdonalds with those veggies but I didn't I merely just replaced pastas or other carbs with brussels sprouts or asparagus, etc. I ate well just not enough greens.
>Cholesterol is necessary in the diet. Same for carnitine and heme iron that isn’t found in plants.
>supplements have never been shown to raise B12 stores in the body.
>Vitamin D is also fat soluble, so it requires dietary fat to be fully metabolized.
>K is also a fat soluble vitamin, needs dietary fat. Same for Vit A and E
pseudoscience fairytale garbage
>Conversion rate of ALA to DHA and EPA are ~8%
it actually ranges from 2% to 9%, but you dont really know what you're talking about so that's not a shock.
1 serving of chia seed converts to 100 ~ 400mg which is nearly adequate
>There is no cruelty free life
only retards think there is a such thing as "cruelty free", dont make me come out of your moms bedroom and slap you
>There is a single nucleotide polymorphism that a large number of people have that leaves them the ability to BARELY convert beta carotene to vit A or not even be able to at all.
>BARELY
hahahhahahahah what the fuck is wrong with you
read
Complete protein is the only protein that matters
>thats why i pay extra for high quality foods
imagine being this cucked by your diet
I went from 231 to 250 when I finally joined a gym (ive always been a big athletic guy due to high school and college sports) and I find getting the .6 to be not that bad (150 grams) but 175 or 200 to be a lot and wears on you if you try every day to hit it.
I really don't want to overdo the whey but I end up getting 20-40 grams a day from that just because every meal becomes so protien-centric otherwise. Especially since I'm still in a combination cut/bulk that I get to do in the first few months of joining a gym so I somewhat watch calories too.
youtube.com
Vegetables are not anymore healthy for you than are fresh meats, organ meats, fruits, fungi, enriched grains, or some slow rising breads.
Vegans want animals to not be farmed. Never existed is a non issue compared to existing to be tortured and butchered.
Farming and pesticide use causes massive damage on the ecosystem every time new patch is made, it kills every insect and small animal and destroys the soil. Also the fact that rainforests are being cut down to make room for avocado trees which are then shipped to everywhere in the world.
>posts sv3rige unironically
go back to your cave gremlin, your cult leader stares at the sun all day and eats rats anus for breakfast, not to mention he stabbed his classmates because he was (and still is) missing a few screws.
>existing to be tortured
Dishonest
>butchered
Not a problem
>avocado meme
animal agriculture is responsible for the most environmental destruction by far, and the demand for avocados is mainly meat eaters/vegetarians
trips but that's broscience and incorrect
B12 is produced from prokaryotes that live in dirt and soil. Also known as hydroxocoblamine in its organic form, it is absorbed directly into the illium during the second stage of digestion since it is the only vitamin that is entirely water soluble. Its mass synthesized form, cyancoblamine is lesser quality and has to be detoxified by the liver before it it is released into the bloodstream. This form also has a shorter halflife so it has to be taken more frequently.
Most animals for consumption are b12 deficient because they eat a diet mostly of corn and 5oybeans and are given mass b12 supplements to make them not sick. If you think eating meat is a good way to get b12, you'd have to eat wild game raw to get optimal results.
Fish are wild game
Yes, the cows eat grass that has this bacteria and in the gut of these cows the bacteria produces B12 which is then stored into the tissues of the body. I eat raw meat from my local farms
All vegans are shoplifters
Rainforest are cut down for basedbean agriculture, the overwhelming majority of which is for livestock feed.
Not 1 long lasting vegan society
Modern food stock animals are reared in what would amount to a prison if it were humans. They are kicked and tortured for the entertainment of bored livestock farmhands. Most of the stun based killing methods don't work and they are often butchered while still alive.
Not one long lasting carnivore society
But there you can see video evidence from your dear cult leaders and how they lose their health lol. How blind are you?
>appeal to tradition
I don't know why you think rawvana or whatever the fuck her name is was a leader of the online vegan movement. The main ones are earthling ed, joey carbstrong, and hench herbivore.
>if it were human
But theyre not, so it isn't
Existence is the darwinian heuristic for success. If it doesn't exist, it wasn't successful.
Well they didn't have wallmart as we do now .
A pig has the same demonstratable intelligence as a 4 year old. Every farmed animal is aware of pain and suffering and so to some extent is self aware.
What makes something human, and what makes that thing more valuable than a pig?
I don't care how smart a pest animal like hogs are. They can either be exterminated en mass in the wild, or controlled and harvested for food.
If it never existed in the first place its a non issue. Something that never existed could never be considered successful or unsuccessful. Therefore non existence is a non issue.
You wouldn't be having this discussion if you never existed. The same as something suffering would never suffer if it never existed. Something existing and suffering is an issue, something never existing is not an issue. The argument that animals wouldn't exist without farming, therefore farming is good, is a false equivalency. It could also be argued that just because something exists, doesn't make it good.
I'm not seeing an argument, just the usual meatcel "I don't care" statement. Give me something to discuss or stop spouting words like a retard who thinks he is intelligent.
This is the longest nonargument I've nearly read in a long time
I'll put into a framing you might understand.
You: "wah piggies wiggies are so smart and cute uwu. We can't kill them"
Me, a genius: "pigs are pests that destroy commercial, residential and agricultural property unless they are in a controlled domestic livestock environment. Killing them for food is more efficient than hiring people to exterminate them in the wild."
Well yeah, the premise that non existence is a non issue is the statement that there is no point in arguing it as arguing either way is a non argument. A non argument isn't necessarily a bad statement, it can be a tautology and therefore hold validity. You have any more shit statements and platitudes from your YouTube philosophy classes?
>Farming them en mass, destroying land and managing industry is more efficient than not doing this
Fucking retard
Pictured:yourself
Until the lifting internet trend, 1g protein per kg bodyweight was the norm for bodybuilders. Nowadays, it's considered barely enough for sedentary people. You do the maths.
That's why protein shakes are so big nowadays compared to the past btw.
People still exist that believe in the anabolic window.
A nonargument isn't worth addressing.
The sky is blue, therefore you're a retard.
>Not the same as real food dude
>takes creatine
>takes BCAA's
>takes whey isolate
hm
Vegans should be rounded up and shot.
>random people posting videos on the internet for attention represents vegans
this is retarded, only because some retards decide they'd publicize their diet, regardless of if it was shit or if it was perfect, does not mean that every vegan eats the same way
You want a YouTube example of a vegan who eats well look at Clarence Kennedy's videos on his diet.
The 1g/lb threshold is overstatement- protein will be used as glucose and not for new mass or maintaince
still better to over consume protein than under consume
>basedbean
lmfao
Yes.
Protein deficiency is essentially unheard of in the developed world despite the range of diet and socio-economic factors at play.
LMAO being this much of a philosophylet. Come back to me when you've sat your first class of high school introductory philosophy,or even read a basic book like my first colouring book.
>People in the past BARELY ate meat
source: my butt lol
You didn't read his post. He agrees that vegetables are healthy but does not agree that removing all animal products is healthy. He believes in a varied diet of healthy foods which is not the average American diet.
pre-modern people were capable of great feats of strength due to neurological adaptation and superior bone density. They were in no way jacked.
1g per lb always sounded absurd to me, does anyone actually do that? I got jacked eating about 1g per kg and that was when bulking.
I accept your concession
Mate you conceded here. You think only arguments hold value in a discussion, and we are discussing whether non existence is a relevant consideration against suffering. Non existence as being a non issue itself is a non argument, it's a tautology. If you think only arguments construct a discussion there's no discussion to be had with you, until you do additional reading or accept the fact that you were wrong.
It's pretty common advice on this board to do 1:1
1 per kg is a bit low for some people but you could easily get away with .5 to .6
A lot of people incorrectly count their protein and dont count breads which are a good source so they might underreport
I only ever get close to 1 g per lb when on a cut and even then it's usually pounds of desired weight
>People in the past BARELY ate meat and they were strong and jacked from working every day.
Pretty sure the diet of noblemen and women famed for strength included several whole chickens, several dozens of eggs and half a pig per day.
Actually I just looked up an XVIII century noblewoman famed for breaking horseshoes in half as part of her morning routine and her scribe wrote that her breakfast was 60 whole eggs.
SIXTY FUCKING EGGS. FOR BREAKFAST
>they were strong and jacked from working every day.
Source: Your butt
>people in the past
?
Humans have been primarily carnivorous for the majority of their history. Agriculture has only been around for a few thousand years.
They're getting the vitamins from their bodyfat you dumbass