Real socialism has never been tried because it has never been done in a rich country. Nations like Russia, China, Venezuela, all failed at socialism because they were shitty countries, not because socialism doesn't work. Saying socialism doesn't work because shitty countries couldn't make it work is like saying Capitalism doesn't work because African countries are shit.
If a rich country like the USA or UK tried socialism, it would work because these countries aren't shit to begin with.
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>Real socialism has never been tried because it has never been done in a rich country.
It works just fine in Northern Europe, immigrant memes aside. I don't understand why people seem to think you can't balance progress and profit with a sense of shared responsibility. No man is an island, after all, and everyone would sleep better knowing there's no chance they'll starve or die of an infection.
>Real socialism has never been tried because it has never been done in a rich country.
Socialism is a great way to make your rich country a poor country just so you know
Russia was never rich. China was never rich. North Korea Cuba Venezuela were never rich. They've always been shit.
The USA on the other hand, is rich, and would succeed under socialism
by your own admission it seems to be required for a country to be capitalist in order for it to stop being poor and become rich.
Scandinavia is not socialist, you fucking retard
Okay then, it's not. I still want universal healthcare and an expanded welfare state, and it seems to work fine for them. You can call it whatever you want as long as people aren't starving or getting tooth infections because they can't afford a dentist.
the truth is socialism can only work if it's national socialism.
nobody cares fuckboi its not gonna happen
UK "isn't shit to begin with" sure op
Ok fascuck
>China
>Failed
Have you even read Marx? He literally says that in order for socialism to work, capitalism must come first, and in order for communism to work, socialism must come first.
Fuck off with real socialism.
It doesn't work because nothing about human beings or our society is equal.
If you've read Marx and haven't realized that he was a fucking moron who was wrong about pretty much everything, then I don't know what to tell you.
you really associate china with what you want out of communism? you want everything to be cheap plastic Made in USA stickered toys?
Are you seriously saying Marx was wrong about use-value? That's a cornerstone of modern economics.
By definition it has not ever been implemented because workers anywhere have not own the means of production. It has always always turned into shitty centralised planned economy.
Add in to this:
State can own businesses, it's called state capitalism and that is NOT socialiasm.
Welfare does not make country socialist, if that was true Imperial Germany in 1800s was socialist. That'd mean USA is socialist.
But as always these things are impossible to talk about rationally because people, particularly Angloids and USA have no clue of politics other than their scam of a two-party systems or still live in Red Scare.
I don't know what your idea of modern economics is, but my impression is that its generally accepted that there basically is nothing except a price. In other words, something is worth what the highest bidder will pay to acquire it, without any regard to the amount of labor that went into producing it or any objective measure of its utility or use-value to anyone - since there are no objective measures of utility, only subjective ones.
That was Marx's exact point, dumbass.
Not really. The whole labor-theory-of-value stuff is bullshit. He really did not want to accept that nothing has any intrinsic worth.
>t. i want """""free""""" stuff
"ocialism" is when you ligma balls
Resources necessary for survival have intrinsic value.
RED IDEOLOGY BAD
Now quantify that.
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To remain healthy, a typical man needs to eat 1,800 calories each day. All other values can be reckoned thus in calories - how many days of life is this thing worth to me?
>By definition it has not ever been implemented because workers anywhere have not own the means of production. It has always always turned into shitty centralised planned economy.
>State can own businesses, it's called state capitalism and that is NOT socialiasm.
Always nice to see people who understand this.
Also, Proudhon>Marx.
Venezuela was rich but you cant see past your racism
They literally had all that petroil money and were onto a development similar to dubai but that stopped not because socialism but because some thieves came and said
Yes we are socialists
but they really werent socialists they were just dumb lowtier soldiers promising stuff they could never give and they used socialism and communism to hide the fact that they didnt know how to govern a country
Still none of the less Socialism can work on the social aspect of a country but not economically because its a mess Capitalism can work economically but not socially because it exploits the people
None of the political systems work and that will take some of you around 50 years of suffering to understand
a non-shit country wouldn't have any incentive to overthrow their entire economic system desu.
venezuela wasn't rich like dubai lol... dubai is a totally different situation
they're more like a south american gabon
The UK tried socialism in the late 1940s.
They arguably tried it again in the 1960s.
The failures of Russia and Venezuela had as much to do with overvalued currencies as they did with socialism. Their forms of socialism were very damaging to business, of course, but they cold have easily recovered had the government not tried to pretend the currency was worth far more than its market value.
>The failures of Russia and Venezuela had as much to do with overvalued currencies as they did with socialism.
This is another thing that gets ignored far too often. There's nothing in socialism (at least that I know of) that says "combine sovereign monetary policy with a fixed exchange rate".
They had more proven petroil mass than dubai
I want my neetbux as much as the next guy OP, but you know this ain't true.
What if we destroy money and get paid with work, instead of a materialistic thing? Would we as a society become monkeys or could It work?
I'm very unfamiliar with other political speeches so if this already exists, please mention it.
Doesn't really matter either way. The economic system of oligarchal capitalism is the current system of all the countries that matter. As long as the current ruling class is in power, that will be the case.
Something like that is actually a key component of Marxism: abolish money and replace them with "Labor Vouchers" which are handed out based on how much someone has produced (instead of time spent working) and exchange it for goods requiring an equal amount of labor.
I don't know enough about the specifics of Marxism to elaborate further than that, though.
Other user is right. Scandinavia is social democratic, not socialist. Social democracy works tho
>the UK tried socialism
Source?
No shit. Capitalism creates the economy, socialism gives it stability.
>Coping this god damn hard
Like lol
I don't know what the fuck even counts as socialist, from what I have understood from a certain right-wing youtuber's views, free healthcare and free school counts as socialist. Then again in wikipedia it says Nordic countries are social democracies. Vague terms are vague and wortless
Anyways none of you can deny the superiority of the system Nordic countries have, I already beat everyone's ass in a debate about it on this board. Just accept that the USA's system is shit, and even Canada is incredibly better
>Venezuela
>Wasn't a rich country
Are you stupid?
>China
>Not rich now that it has (at least incrementally on the international market) embraced capitalism.
Venezuela was the richest country in South America in the 90s before socialism took hold of it, look at it now lmfao.