Which one is better for hypertrophy and muscle mass: fbw or split?

Well that depends on him and which one suits his interests better. A program you hate and put less effort in will have worse results obviously. There is no best. what matters is what will have you try your best.

what about push/pull without legs? I don't want to train my legs, don't tell me that I should, so what do you think about push/pull? for example PUSH-PULL-PUSH-PULL 4 days a week?

Upper/lower 6x per week is optimal

> frequency
> volume
> 1 recovery day

>imagine being this much of a faggot

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>what about push/pull without legs?
Just kill yourself. Seriouly.

> chicken leg faggot
but for reals. push/pull 2x/week is a fine way of doing it if that fits your goals

If you can train a muscle 3 days a week you're not getting enough volume in. There's a reason nobody trains like that. Also, most studies show that you're not getting any extra growth by training a muscle more than twice a week.

I hate bro splits.
I dont have time for it.
Bodypart once a week fuck that.

Does it work?
It sure does. My buddy did that for two years and looks great.

Choose one that you like more and suits you better and do that for a long time. Then try something else.
Thing is you dont want to jump from one routine to another one. Dont fuck around

and he shit himself
actually I have so big and strong legs and I have knee injury and I don't want to do legs
so push/pull 2x/week is good and better than upper/lower without lower?

theres no minimum for volume per session so just split it more. its fine to do. jeff nipples does this

>I have so big and strong legs

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PPLx2 is the way to go if you have time

yes push/pull 2*week. knock yourself out

can I do push/pull without legs?
and please stop saying
>wh no legs faggot??

Jeff is on gear. If you're natty and you seriously think you can handle all that volume I have some very bad news for you. Unless you lift baby weights your CNS will be fried from squatting, deadlifting, and pressing heavy 3 times a week. Not to mention the additional fatigue from all the accessory movements.

>strong legs
>knee injury
pick one

Train legs, faggot.

read ^, yes you can

> still a faggot

Nigger, guys like Leroy Colbert, John Grimek, Steve Reeves etc. all trained their body parts 3x per week and were big, strong, and aesthetic as fuck. What are you even saying my guy?

Full body 4x a week is so fucking based it blows my mind it's not as popular as it should be. Perfect balance of frequency and volume.

Sample:
Mon - Squat, press, w. pullups
Tue - Deads, bench, rows
Rest
Thu - Repeat Monday
Fri - Repeat Tuesday

Or any 531 forever template:
Mon - Squat 531, supplemental, 50-100 push pull legs/abs
Tue - OHP 531, supplemental, 50-100 push pull legs/abs
Rest
Thu - Bench 531, supplemental, 50-100 push pull legs/abs
Fri - Deadlift 531, supplemental, 50-100 push pull legs/abs

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> jeff on gear
okay retard. to say it again. 9sets once per week is the same voume as 3 sets 3 times per week retard. adjust volume to oyur freq

now you're just pulling rabbits out of your asshole

He answered the question fine you giga retard.

studies havent shown wheter or not 3x is better than 2x but thats down to lack of studies

Colbert and Reeves weren't natty. Grimek didn't do upper/lower x3. He did full body 3 times a week. Also, all of these guys had top tier genetics. You don't.

yeah but didnt have to be so gay about it
>just do your best hurr durr, whatever works for you lmao

so it's inconclusive. in your previous statement, you said it as if it were DEFINITE.

what? nah. all we know is 2x is better than 1x. 3x is fine. better? maybe, maybe not. but fine non the less. all i said was its fine

There's absolutely no reason to train like this, retard. The optimal amount of volume is around 10 work sets per muscle. You can do that twice a week on upper/lower giving you enough time to recover. There's literally no point in doing it your way.

Find me one study that supports that 3x is better than 2x. Pro tip: you can't.

you can do up to 20sets per week depending on volume.
so either you 10sets twice per week or like... 6-7sets 3 times per week

as i said, due to lack of research. read my comments retarddepending on genetics*

>so either you 10sets twice per week or like... 6-7sets 3 times per week

That's pointless though. I mean, okay, if you're bored and you have nothing better to do, go to the gym 6 days a week, but you're not making any more gains than the guy who went 4 times.

Except both variants add up to 20 sets per week which will induce the same amount of muscle growth, moron.

higher freq MIGHT stimulate more MPS... might.ALSO i'll put this out here. i dont train like this i do PPLPPL with volume around 8-22 sets per week depending on body part or focus etc.

>answering correctly is bad

Brosplit with high intensity. It worked for every pro bodybuilder ever, if upper lower or fullbody would be better they would have done it. But ALL of them did a bodypart split, only physique competitors, vegans, naturals etc have to do something inferior to feel special about themselves.

OP asked for wich was better.
> whatever works for you
is a faggy answer. period.

... or because what works for gear using pros dont alwys(very seldom) apply to nattys etc.

>Brosplit with high intensity. It worked for every pro bodybuilder ever,

Brosplits only gained any traction in the 2000s. Before that bodybuilders did full body, upper/lower, or push, pull, legs.

also the best still dont. look at roelly, big ramy, brandon curry etc. the guys at oxygen gym dont do brosplits and they are some of the best in the world

I dont get the logic. Why would someone on roids need more time to recover by only training the same muscle group once a week? If a pro needs one full week to recover from biceps training why would naturals be able to train it 3 times a week? There is also no switch that gets flipped and suddenly you have to train completely differently once you start taking a bit of testosterone.

what is the absolute minimum I can do for legs? I can't squat because of a back injury which only really flares up when I squat now. I'm thinking of split squats and leg press (in addition to deadlifting on another day).

It doesn't really matter at this point since they're all so roided up. I mean, Phill Heath trains mostly on machines, are we goint go to pretend machines are the best? Nobody should ever take advice from a pro bodybuilder on training.

Isnt hypertrophy more for asthestetics?

gear means mps stays elevated for longer so you dont get the same benefits off higher freq. also gear using pros are huge. a bigger muscle needs more time to recover. they also can do more volume and are likley to be stronger. aka they pull more weight and need more recovery

And the 2000s had the best looking bodybuilders ever, so another plus for the muscle split.

First of all, pros aren't on "a bit of testosterone." They're on grams of test, tren, and a bunch of other steorids + HGH and insulin. Second, you missed his point. Pros can train with less frequency and more volume per workout becuase the sheer amount of juice they take will make them grow no matter what they do.

8 sets per week for quads and like 4 sets for hams maybe?

>the 2000s had the best looking bodybuilders ever

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never meant to imply that what pros do apllies to you (or me, or other natties witth sup par genetics)

Grease the groove 7 days a week

your qualified for handicapped parking you mentally disabled retard

The real answer is that it depends on your own intensity and training habits. If you have the energy to put into full-body 3 days a week and get the most out of every exercise then it can be very effective, but one of the reasons so many people fail with full body is that they half-ass half of each fucking workout because they don't know how to pace themselves for fatigue. Bro splits work and are effective for this reason, even if you're only training each bodypart once a week you're really training that body part properly, and if you set up your split correctly, you can always get additional work on that bodypart a second day of the week through accessories. Upper-lower splits help mitigate the problem of running out of gas halfway through your full body workout, too, so they're all potentially good. The biggest key to growing on any program though, is progressive overload. More total volume per workout as you advance is necessary, but if you use the progressive overload principle along with any of these training methods then you can be sure you'll see progress through 8-12 weeks of consistent training. If your diet is consistent and you're getting enough protein, you'll be amazed at what you can accomplish in a relatively short time. Anyway, this is Jow Forums, so there's a 99% chance that none of that shit matters and you're just asking for "whatever will get me ripped fastest" without any consideration for the actual work and consistency it takes to reach the goal.

ill attend your funeral

1990s and early 2000s, the time of the mass monsters. Markus Rühl, Heiko Kallbach, Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates. That is bodybuilding, nowadays they usually look much more bloated than in that era.

>t. Retard

Full body is optimal for strength and mass.

PPL 6x a week if you roid.

They look like shit compared to golden era guys.

i do PPL 6days whitout roids. use appropriate volume

So for some reason no one trains their abs unless they do full body.

Sounds retarded to compare things that aren't equal.

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post body

cant right now

in the meantime hang yourself

Aesthetically I give you that, but the goal of bodybuilding at that level is to get as freaky and big while being at the lowest possible bf percentage humanly possible. It is a freak show, if all mr olympias would still look like arnold, it would get boring after some time.

Not going heavy enough.

You blast your traps when you bench, and your deadlift and squat compete for your lower back.

Trying to program that at a reasonable volume / intensity to ensure adequate recovery isn't worth the effort.

Full body programs 3x a week are intense and provide enough volume if you follow legitimate programs.

i dont deadlift. i really wanna see you bench if it blasts your traps lmao.

volume drives hypertrophy. intensity drives strength. i dont powerlift

lol, Jeff is not on gear. Anybody who says this is a weak and skinny faggot who has never tried in their life before.

based

A sort of pseudo upper lower split on the Texas Method has worked well for me for getting both bigger and stronger.

the best one is the one that you feel best with and train hardest with.

consistency > a 'good' workout that you can't follow

why would you ever do PPL and then be even more retarded and not even do legs?

lol faggot

Jeff is literally a lifelong lifter. He went to high school near me, we're the same age, his parents are both extremely athletic and he had great nutrition and training since he was a teenager. Add a good work ethic, consistency and over the last several years a tight, science-based approach to diet and training, and consider his height and he's one of the very few believable nattys out there. He also does very little pitching of bullshit supps like a lot of fitness personalities.

PPLPPL is good way to train. but yeah removing legs is a massive faggot move

this

>4 years of lifting
>looks like this
I give up

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wow your training and nutrition has to be top tier autism

how are you this retarded user?

let me guess - fullbody routine rite?

look at all the estrogen in the background.

probaly the "eh, ill skip today"- routine. even full body once or twice would give better results lmao

>bench
>traps

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ay dios mio..

I love my bro split but I wouldn't reccomend it to everyone

>my exact reaction as well

I thought I was the only cunt on this board that did brosplit. Everytime one of these threads pop up its just 99% of people bashing brosplit and calling it retarded while I sit here and feel bad about myself.

t. clueless, shit looking retard. post body/lifts. prove me wrong. you won't because you're a little bitch.

anyone*

My mind gave up but my autism won't let me skip a single lifting session or i will be very anxious. Yes I was doing full body, i recently switched to push pull push pull (my knees exploded due to squatting 3x a week), the new routine much better.

Stop posting. You are ignorant of bodybuilding. It doesn't matter how short you are or how long you've been training. You will never have roid delts and traps as a natty.

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rhomboids and middle trap fibers are responsible in an isometric contraction