Programming thread

based post. thanks user. not op but i'll be looking into all of that.

I run a small PPC agency, yeah. I do AdWords and Instagram Ads for my clients (which I have to meet in person, but it's honestly always great and I've made some good connections). I'm niche specific, though. Only do them for people who own a business related to finance or law, so per client I can expect at least 2-3K/month.

May hit 120K in profit (for myself) this year if I'm lucky, and then I'll think about hiring 4 more people next year (currently have 2 employees)

How do you get clients? I'm a freelance copywriter and I'd like to move up to something that involves running full campaigns for people. The thing is that client acquisition seems harder for that business model because you need to go direct to the end-client, whereas if you're doing one discrete skill you can subcontract for someone who is an agency/campaign manager

I'm not in Burgerland (I'm based in Germany) so I attend digital marketing meetups, startup conferences and join parties where my old clients are at to get even more clients (easy because most will be slightly drunk, and if you find a milf-looking woman it's easy as fuck to be charming and have her inform her husband who usually runs the business about you and what you've done for others). Once you have 2-3 under your belt, they'll refer you if you've done good work and it becomes really easy. First 4 months of business are a bitch though.

If you want to run full campaigns, please be aware that I'm not talking about just writing ads, I'm talking about Google Analytics, AdWords optimization, general knowledge of the algorithms that play a role in SEM, quality scores, blackhat SEO and multiple certifications under my belt (which are easy to get if I'm being honest, I'm not sure if Google Ads Academy is still a thing but if it is it should be free, it'd be a good start to get some credentials).

If you're forced to get clients online instead, then (yeah I know plebbit) it's fairly easy to get them on Jow Forumsforhire or Jow Forumsfreelance_forhire, Craigslist is also an option or forums like affiliatefix.com (lots of affiliate marketers and ecommerce business owners constantly look for good copywriters).

Hope that helps.

It is absolutely not irrelevant. The whole reason languages are based around different concepts is because those languages have been optimized around those concepts. Doing side-effects in Scheme is fucking stupid most of the time since it's so god damn ineffective and slow compared to recursive styles. Likewise, doing recursive in Java, which is based on a stack VM, is incredibly inefficient and slows down an already slow and expensive execution.

Prioritize by learning:
1. a simple language, low or medium level. Java was popular during my time, but you could also go for a C type language (C/C++/C#).
2. After you have a reasonable level of expertise in aforementioned language, start looking at the basic algorithmics. Structures, common algorithms and problems, NPs, complexity. Implement these in the language you picked for 1.
3. get into computer architecture, parallelization, and memory. Implement the solutions and tests (CPU instructions/threads/caching/GPU migrations) in the language from 1. Do NOT use out of the box solutions (like OpenMP/MPI) for these, or you won't understand why things get fucked later.
4. Congratulations, you are now a competent coder able to do actual quality programming. Any new language you pick up at this point will be easy to understand and shouldn't take you more than a week since you grasp the underlying basics of how languages work.

That sounds like a *you* problem. Have you checked that var1 has a print function? If you have to assign var1 to var2 and then print, it's likely that var1

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Second year Java / Electronics Arduino student.
I hope it all works out at the end.

Java has nothing to do with Arduino yet it was so similar.

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Why did you not ask this on >>>g ?

Not OP, but Jow Forums is full with pretentious CS students who don't know jackshit.

while i know for a fact programming is a skill that's always going to be in demand the problem i have with it is why even try to learn it when there's Indians and Chinese dudes who can shit code out crazy fast and do it for minimum wage

Because it depends on what you learn how good the end result actually is. Indians and Chinese people will shit out a ton of HTML + CSS + JS shit, or rip basic Android apps and use shitty Java. But they never get into Kotlin or the other stuff. The stuff that's actually high paid.

And the Indians/Chinese that do aren't from third world countries. They were born in first world countries.

If you know a few languages you should focus on projects instead.

Enhance your programming logic, learn concetps, OOP, REST, CRUD. Practice, practice.. learn, learn.

But Indians and Chinks don't run the gaming or software industries.
Exept japs.

It seems to me that you need some structure aka a course. I recommend learn.freecodecamp.org

You use js here but it doesnt really matter the language what its important is the foundation.

Ah shit, I'm feeling extra helpful today. For all my newfriends in this thread, this guy here covers entire languages within one video from basic to advanced with all the code on his website for free (without trying to sell shitty courses):

youtube.com/user/derekbanas/videos

Learn to copy and paste library invocations from Stack Overflow. Congratulations, you are now a programmer.

I should probably elaborate on languages.

Python is really popular as the learning language these days. I think it's a bit too simple and abstracted since your goal is to learn what the fuck is going on rather than just doing things quickly, but perhaps I'm wrong on this one.
Java is a good choice. It's gotten a lot better in the past 10 years but still has you deal with the standard structure of programming in a mostly direct way, and also implements all the smart things advanced programmers are expected to know. You can do a map, you can do an interface, you can inherit a class. The only thing missing is garbage collection, but you can do some of that manually.
C is very basic, so it's a pain the ass, but you will understand exactly what is going on every step of the way. It doesn't deal with objects that well (you have structs, which are sort of proto-objects). It has pointers, which are foundational to understanding memory. A lot of people hate pointers, but you can't be an advanced programmer without understanding them. It is the standard for Unix programming and hardware interfaces/firmware.
C++ is C but much more complete. You get classes, objects, pointers, a sort of native string type, and lots of cool stuff like hashes and anonymous functions you can plug. It is also the standard for serious programming tasks like engines or graphics.
C# is more like C++ in a Java format. It's nicer to handle and very object-centric, but you miss out on the basic things under the hood that help you understand how things work.

You can do functional languages as well, but I'm not sure how that would affect your initial understanding since those are very different before you understand how things work under the hood.

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It may seem that way to you, but the difference between a Chinese dude cranking out fast code and an experienced Master degree CS programmer is the same as the difference between a Chinese dude speaking English and an English Professor speaking English.

>work project is 90% written in a language created in-house so coasting on Stack Overflow isn't feasible most of the time
I hate the actual language and the fact that we try to do everything in this project with it but I guess the silver lining at least is that I can claim I come up with the code I write myself

>Library invocations
Dude, you are not qualified to give advice on programming...

No.

Make a tech stack your main weapon, and try new things that interest you on your free time (because in 20 years, you dont even know if your language of choice/framework will still be relevant). Would honestly suggest to pick a better thing for backend tho, PHP its kind of dead. Go Python/Java/C#.

And its common to forget basic syntax and shit like that, but thats not important at all.
Problem solving, experience, knowing how to learn what you need, etc. Thats the shit that puts food in your table.

Yeah, I hate when ego-centric dickheads re-invent the wheel just so they can feel important. Maintaining that shit is fucking impossible because the retard that built it always feels that comments are unnecessary when "it's so obvious what's happening" after 14 levels of inherited abstraction.

IMO you can't go wrong with learning the C++ language.

I've seen people suggest Python, which is definitely widely used, but I don't think it's a good starter language. It handles all the variable types automatically, so you can do stuff like,

>x = 23
>y = "hello"
>z = false

Instead of,

>int x = 23
>String y = "hello"
>boolean z = false

This is convenient but it prevents you from learning how types work, and can obfuscate errors for debugging.

Concatenate the variable with an empty string within the argument and it should go through. Will look roughly like,

>System.out.println("" + x);

Depending on the language the syntax for concatenation may be different than '+'; it might be '.' in some cases.

Fuck you!
Just put a goto in your for loop!
All the Fortune 500s are doing it!

The worst part is that it's based on a standardized language but it's one that everyone stopped using 15 years ago, it also has literally no debugger to speak of so you have to add a bunch of "debug-only" data dumps and put on your forensics expert cap to figure out what's going on in one errant line because you can't just interrogate that part of the code directly

I know basic C++ and a little bit of OOP, and a little bit of HTML, CSS, JS(+JQuery) and I'm planning to learn some PHP and SQL. I want to start freelancing(web development) but I don't know how and where(which website) to start? Some help?

check
and

Yeah, but I mean WHERE can I do it? Which websites(as an absolute beginner). How can I start if I never worked like this and I don't have really that much experience?

Where? As in where you can write the code or what?

No, I mean which website is the best? Upwork, freelancer.com, etc.. and more details about how is exatcly working as a freelancer in web dev like

lmao dude, stay the fuck away from Upwork and Freelancer if you want to make any kind of sustainable income. That shit's reserved for third worlders.

Get social skills. Get business partners. Have a good LinkedIn. Attend conferences.

are there any robots doing programming in Swift? are there any groups for robots who play with programming and want to learn more?

yeah but i have NO EXPERIENCE(i never worked like this) and i doubt someone will want me... also i dont have to live off this since i want to do it just to get a little extra money, so i want to find some easy jobs for a beginner

who else /perl/ here

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Got accepted in computer engineering next semester and know nothing about programming

Is there a way to learn it this summer?

I'm sorry bro but it's not that easy. Upwork, Freelancer and Fiverr are slavery. The third worlders on there are working 80 hour weeks, 20% goes to UpWork and the client can just cancel the project last second without paying.

Have a good Github. Do some side projects. Then apply for actual freelance gigs. Nobody wants halfassed shit, not even for a little extra money. I doubt you're 15-18 where that'd be okay to gain some experience.

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so do the opposite of what this guy says because I don't think he's right in the head

I too would like to know--
what do you wish you had learned before starting your courses anons?

Do projects and mess with other people's projects reading the source code and contributing if you can

Also make it a habit, extremely hard yet that's all you need

Basic programming is understanding logic, good enough for a decent salary most of the time and the thing you can reach in a ton of ways (intro courses, freecodecamp, books, college, and so on)

Beyond that is really spotting things that you could improve with code and actually do them (that's why the habit and the projects are the best way to go). With that you can either be a great freelancer if you network, a well paid engineer anywhere or even one of those innovators that everyone admires if what you do ends up being that useful.

away with your typefaggotry

You can use css html and JS together and get good at all three at the same time. Fuck php, it looks so bad

I want to understand how to read and write a code
One class is about programming in C so I dont want to be too much behind

I mean... you could just google it bro

Tfw programmer but hate other programmers. Most of them are legitimately terrible people. Fucking brainlets with huge egos. Then about 1/10 of those brainlets take Adderall and work hard and become Mr. Shekelberg's favorite pet and go right along with all of muh pair programming muh open office concepts and then their low IQ brainlet bullshit is validated purely because they're "hard workers" and kike ass kissers. Fuck software development I swear to fucking god

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Learning C is like talking to a retard with no context. You have to spell it all out. You can't assume any prior knowledge and you even have to point out when you are starting and ending the conversation. And whenever you assume knowledge that isn't there, the compiler will smack your left testicle with a rolled up paper.

Not that user, but that's why it's so great. It makes sure you NEVER forget the basic concepts after the shit you go through while learning C for the first time. Neither Python nor JS gives you that kind of experience. Maybe Perl or Haskell.

Buy programmer socks, it gets you in the mood to program

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Post some good programming music bros
youtube.com/watch?v=ArPxzrZ-rYQ&

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>Tfw programmer but hate other programmers. Most of them are legitimately terrible people. Fucking brainlets with huge egos. Then about 1/10 of those brainlets take Adderall and work hard and become Mr. Shekelberg's favorite pet and go right along with all of muh pair programming muh open office concepts and then their low IQ brainlet bullshit is validated purely because they're "hard workers" and kike ass kissers. Fuck software development I swear to fucking god
Not to mention the women in HR and other departments, and the middle managers constantly getting in the way of productivity. And the women who can't actually code but somehow have a job as an "intern" for six months and I have to just find a task for them to pretend to do until the company gets tired of them playing Farmville and blames me, and I have to meticulously record every instance of Stacey being an incompetent fucktard to cover my own ass. The 19th amendment was a mistake.

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perl is very sneaky about that. It has an implied pointer ($_) that it uses in most contexts (like shows). If you call a function as a bareword like split, it will use the default argument on the implied pointer, which can be quite confusing. That's why you often see shift; as a bareword, since the default context for a function call is the argument array. my $input = shift; will assign the first argument. foreach(@array) will make $_ a pointer to whatever is the current element of @array, which is handy but also terrible if you don't know what you're doing. foreach my $element (@array) will instead give the safe version since $element is a copy-by-value of the current element of @array, but that instead has the confusing side effect of keeping $_ as the implied element of the previous context.

sub function {

my @array = (0 .. 25);

foreach(@array) {
#in here, $_ is a pointer to the current element in the loop.
#Changing this will alter @array.
}

foreach my $element (@array) {
#in here, $element is copy-by-value of the current element in loop.
Changing $element will not alter @array.
#In here, $_ is the first value of the arguments passed to the function.
#Changing $_ will change the input value.
}

It's awesome when you are aware of these things as you can do a lot of stuff quickly. But before you learn it perl can be tricky.

Why are webdevs and sysadmins always devoid of a personality?

As other anons in this thread have said, mastering one language will help you master them all. Consider learning a real language, like C.

>Get social skills
thanks dad

If you don't know what your future projects will be, then it's best to gain familiarity with a variety of languages.

Also, different languages expose you to different paradigms, and understanding a variety of paradigms makes you more flexible. For example, PHP will expose you to programming under the constraints of the HTTP request/response cycle. JavaScript is good for exposure to asynchronous programming. And so forth.

haskell is a real "real langauge"

>Why are webdevs and sysadmins always devoid of a personality?
They wouldn't have gone into those jobs if they had personalities

>chinese guy takes a week to write a simple proposal that includes all the essential ideas and a plan for implementation
>english professor takes 1 year to outline, draft, rewrite, then submit his proposal for peer review before getting the recommended changes back. takes another year off at the cost of the university to "revise and decompress"
>chinese guy is already prototyping his product
>english professor submitted a second proposal another year later after finding himself and realizing what really matters in life, also a lot of cocaine and alcohol and long nights questioning his manhood
>chinese guy has made a fortune by this time, despite still not knowing any more english than he originally did
>english professor gets his second proposal back with an approval, but he has already second guessed himself and thinks it isn't good enough
>english professor kills himself
And that English professor's name?

David Foster Wallace.

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OH NONONONONONO xDDDDDDDD

I learned the basics problem solving with Java and avoided object oriented programming (made all functions static, etc). Basically just like reversing a string and stuff like that.
I then moved onto python and did A LOT of file IO problems with dictionaries and lists, counting the number of words, letters ,etc in a file and writing to an out file a certain format. At this point my problem solving skills had solidified and there was very little that I didn't know how to approach.
I then moved onto C, learned the basics and started read K&R v2.
Once I had gotten the absolute fundamentals of structs and pointers (I dabbled a bit with data structures), I then moved onto Java classes. I then did basic data structures (Stack, Queue, Linked list, both reference based and array based) with classes in Java.
I then did the different classes in Python.
I then did classes in C++.
Forgetting the arithmetic is totally a-okay. Don't worry about that. It's about the problem solving process and will to learn.

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Spoiler alert: programming is about understanding the problem at hand and knowing what to Google, so pick a language and learn the major concepts. After that switching languages is just a case of syntax (ok and maybe some minor adjustments to your thought process)

He's originally right

It's not, but the demand is so high this is a great lifehack

>he doesn't program to weeb music

youtube.com/watch?v=AvQka2HrceY

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Programming is about learning what your style is.

>he doesn't program to German 80s pop music

youtube.com/watch?v=pDzZj3-7-r4

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First post best post! Although it might not work for everyone! I think it generally worked for me, tho~!

Not OP, but I think it's nice to get Jow Forums's perspective on the subject.

The cuter the better! :3

Fuck out of this thread turbienigger. You are not welcome and you're a shit programmer anyway.

Learn social engineering and how to type faster and c#

My dudes I just got a job at a FAANG and like 80% of the devs are Indian/Chinese and half of them I can barely understand. I got an architecture overview from this senior Chinese guy and 99% of the shit he said didnt even sound like English. It feels like a luxury to hear an American accent around here. My manager is also Chinese with a thick accent.

help me fellow bots

There's better advice in this thread than you'd get in a month of Jow Forums threads.

i met this programmer girl who ALWAYS wore black sweat pants, a black hoodie, and socks like pic related with colombia hiking shoes. she always looked so comfy was also pretty smart i mean she worked for microsoft doing computational parallelism.

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At least I can solve FizzBuzz in multiple ways without cheating and can code well enough to avoid NEET life! Plus, people actually have always valued my work! UwU

So cute!

>i met this programmer girl
that wasn't a girl

user a lot of girls work as developers unless you live in bumfuck nowhere.

Once you achieve basic proficiency, focus on projects. A single project could use all those languages you listed.

are you me? shit nigga I started out doing shit with Lua on roblox too. then I moved on to minecraft modding.

>took 2 courses in C++
>A in both
>still dont know how to use enum
>avoid enum like the plague

will I make it bros?