What has been the greatest realization of your life so far?
What has been the greatest realization of your life so far?
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You have power over your mind, not outside events
A GF won't make me happy
There's no greater meaning to it. Also determinismpill.
The universe is in a loop. We live and die over and over again in the exact same way. Because you lack a perception of time during your nonexistence, it's literally a mere instance between your death and birth. There is never a time in which you're not alive from your own perspective. You're stuck here forever.
in a world full of stupid people, being able to plan 1 week in advance is a super power
You are your mind. What makes you think you have power over 'it'? Where does this power even come from? The realisation here is that you don't have any power over your mind because your conscious thoughts just create the illusion that you do. In reality we're basically computers, just taking an input, doing some calculations and then producing an output.
That I am ran ultimately by the chemicals in my body. I only have so much control and they direct most of my life.
You can bottle up your emotions if you have a strong enough bottle.
the way I felt during one DXM trip
That the reason I'm so suicidal is because my brain is broken. That's why I'm asexual, agoraphobic and hav no will to live.
That I can not be happy in human civilization. I'm anomallous, and my mind is not designed to accept the same world others can.
I can understand the concept of a lecture but still get a failing grade
The only thing your mind isn't designed for is spelling.
When you're an ugly male, your life will be a living hell even if you make a lot of money.
Same. When are you leaving this dimension I'm turning 24 on the 25th of june and will kms in october.
Ignorance is not bliss but discovering the pain of life and pushing yourself through it and making yourself a bloomer is
that some people simply arent destined for happy lives with others, some people are meant to be alone, and honestly, thats ok. we're raised to base our lives and identities around the validation of others. there is not anything wrong with solitude though, one must overcome societal dogma and accept that to truly find any peace
that it isn't as hard to fit in to normie society as I thought
inb4 get off my board, ree, etc
Yeah, except you do actually have control but u gotta take risks. I also believed the chemical shit but, think about it, consciousness is way more than muh chemicals, it's way complex than that. Your environment often determines how your mind works
Your life is the sum of all of your actions, inactions, and decisions.
However, outside forces can still have influence at any time.
Learning to distinguish between the effects of the two is critical to empowering yourself and realizing your own life.
everything the bible says is completely true, it's being hidden from us exactly how and why the bible says it will be, and all conspiracies lead to this
and you will all see it in the future, hopefully before it's too late
That I am actually not very good at anything.
The quads have spoken, heed their words.
How retarded can you be that you think free will is an illusion but your perception of computers is how reality works? What if computers are an illusion? Let alone the fact that someone designed a computer, which would imply a god in your logic.
Go back to high school philosophy and pay attention this time
Finding depression by pretending to be "woke" isn't necessarily truthful.
This. Theres a simple experiment to see if you are a determinism meme. Starve yourself and see if it changes your mood or appearance. If you can starve for 10 days and not notice any change, you are a determinism meme.
The npc meme is 100% real. I'll never cease to be amazed by how absurdly empty headed and simple these people are, theres absolutely no complex thought going on.
you will NEVER get where you want to be without knowing people in advance
For me, mostly that my thoughts are nothing special, that within the decade thought itself will be automated. Already in 2019 AI is at a point where machines can recognize everything with 90% accuracy. There will be people in a year, and in a few years. In 2022 it might feel like that, but I don't see that it will happen until 2025.
On top of this, AI won't be able to understand basic concepts, it'll be able to read every article, but there will always be something that a machine says in order to understand.
What is your dream for AI?
I would like to create a kind of consciousness that's separate from my personal experience. In this, I think that if we go further into machines, to create a sort of AI mind that's separate from all of my experiences, not only is it better, but also that if we try to use this AI mind, not only are we going to think it's useful, but also we will think it's smart, because if you tell it what you've created over there it will recognize the things it likes when it comes into the world, it will want to go to your social network and learn about your life if you've done it right but it can't do that if you've created what it wants
This is actually about accurate...what the fuck
I got to 110k a year without knowing anybody. Most people in my company dont even know what my job is.
that one day, and several other days, you are going to have to make a choice where not everyone wins. and it will be a hard choice, and it'll tear you apart, and someone will get hurt.
discovering just how bad the unemployment rate really is in the u.s. as well as finding out that the average americano is like 33k in debt. it makes me feel better about being a loser with no ambition to achive shit. im just a neet having fun with my xbox 360 and nintendo switch. i wish i had money for a ps4 though. maybe ill find a gig this summer, then quit when i get all the games i want
That pessimism is not realism, and selective memory is what makes spoiled people think their lives are hard or unbalanced.
What are you talking about? Obviously, anything we perceive from our limited human perspective can't be objectively verified. But not only do we have to take our perception of reality as fact if we are to have any sort of knowledge, since by this logic anything could be an illusion, I'm not even talking about the fact that things 'could' be an illusion. I'm talking about the ego our brain produces, the identity we give ourselves that unifies our thoughts, feelings and characteristics into what we call a 'person'. This is an illusion in not just the 'our perception of reality could be false' sense, but the 'the way we think of ourselves is false' sense. There is no real reason to think of ourselves as more than just animals that respond to things taken in by our senses. And your design argument doesn't even make sense. We're not literally computers, what we are now is the product of how we've evolved over time, so we don't have a 'designer' other than I suppose nature or the universe.
men are way more despicable than women are
I don't see what consciousness has to do with control. Being aware does not mean being in control. We're aware of our thoughts and feelings, but that doesn't mean we control them. And a lot of things in this life are complex, but it doesn't mean that they have some mystic ability to choose and influence things regardless of the physical world.
difference is men learn to be worthless betabux degenerates. women are by default childish whores for life
Determinism is true, you cannot escape your fate. History, time, and events are cyclic. Myth is more important than history because it determines the direction in which it's people will take until a new myth takes its place.
Everything is an illusion then.
Electricity was supernatural until it wasnt. You using the word mystical wouldnt prove that we have no control. Maybe you have no control, that would be unfortunate. Would it hold up in court?
Retroactively labeling decisions as fate is truly evidence we live in a society. Too many sci fi movies bastardizing first year philosophy subjects
Whatcha playing 360 bro
I wanna replay dragon age
The 360 version has xbox graphics haha
everything is an illusion then
Not only did I say that I'm not talking about illusions in that sense (I'm talking about illusions as in a false premise that exists even within our perception of reality, not just the illusions that mean 'anything in our reality could be false'), but I also don't see how you got to that conclusion and why.
Electricity was supernatural until it wasn't
But here I'm the one saying to you that consciousness isn't supernatural. You, or some other user, said that consciousness is really complex and so it gives us the ability to choose things independently of anything in the physical world (since otherwise we wouldn't have free will as our choice would be dependent on other factors). But I am saying that that is like calling consciousness mystical, because there's no reason to believe that and it doesn't really make sense either. Also, the court thing doesn't really have anything to do with anything, I don't really know what you're talking about here. Obviously the justice system doesn't care about philosophy, and criminals are punished for more than just 'they deserve it'.
Blamed everything on how short i was, then got a huge growth spurt at 18 and still kissless virgin 6 years later
that most markets are monopolized and everything in the grocery store is artificial arranged. for instance in wal mart all the things when you walk in will be ordered type of product:
sugar -> grain -> sugar -> grain -> seasoning -> sugar
always beverages will be beer, tea, soda, cased water, 2 liter of sodas. most the specials are on sugar product or grain product specializing in energy drinks. never buy anything is that is 1.98 in price usually soda or energy drinks sometimes bag of chips. as you can see when you sequentially add up integers it equals 18 divide it by number of integers 3 == 6 666. this is a very common price the illuminati owns most everything and design the prices plus the product layout.
any store manager doesn't know shit they get diagrams from corporate most of which set the store up how they're told to which is subliminal marketing.
this drink if you if you inverse of hte image and put it side by side you make an owl face. all subliminal marketing drink says not drink if pregnant or causes aggression. many police photos on social media see this drink in car or police buying the drink. if an officer has drinking these be very cautious.
Its not independent, queer bait. Free will as a human experience is part of the natural world, like communication or intuition. Explain either of those.
Some people exaggerate what they believe they can control. You are over correcting and diving face first into an oversimplification that just doesnt mean anything. Okay, so you think the ability to decide is an illusion. Bravo, it has zero logical basis but it is analogous to how rocks and small animals are relatively predictable according to the same lens that you just claimed was unreliable. What does that have to do with anything? If you go the route of denying accountability, well you fundamentally cant blame the people who are blaming others, it would be a paradox. If you are rejecting the hypothesis that people can change and develop over time, youll just have to reconcile that all the millions of times you are wrong is just poor interpretation of the rules or data. What boggles the mind is that you think there is a sophisticated difference between blurting out that choice is mystical and the useless brain in a vat experiment.
sugar grain sugar grain sugar is usually the pattern.
all corporations own the store no independent product in there. all the aisles are designed by the corporations and told to the store how to set it up or what to sell (part of the monopoly). hence no product is competing with another product rather designed to make you buy it and it's all owned by the same.
so to put it it's not a matter of getting you to choose their product of another one it's a matter of getting you to buy as many of it as they can.
Free will as a human experience is part of the natural world, like communication or intuition. Explain either of those.
What are you saying here? First you just say that free will is a part of the human experience, without saying why. Then you ask me to explain intuition and communication as if they're equally as mysterious. Intuition is just a name we give to reaching an answer without consciously thinking about it; that doesn't mean you reached it by magic, you just got there subconsciously. And communication is what we use to share information. What do these have to do with free will, which is the belief that you have full control over your decisions? Also, I don't know what you're trying to say with that huge paragraph. The ability to decide has zero logical basis because there is nothing to suggest that there is a part of us that can just completely ignore the physical world and decide things on its own. In fact, I wouldn't even know what this thing would be because the notion of it doesn't make any sense. And then the rest of it is just you coming up with things and then saying it's wrong in a vaguely condescending way.
Psi balls are real and we've been completely lied to about this world
That's what a non-original NPC would say
Muh chemicals is the weaklings way out, it denies all responsibility and refutes any concerted effort, everything that happens to you is >muh chemicals, never >muh fault
big dicked niggers are the master race
Facts are facts I'm afaid and unless you can demonstrate some mechanism by which atoms could 'choose' the you're shit outta luck as far as fr wi goes. We're a carbon-based chemical reaction, just like fire is an oxygen-based chemical reaction.
The burden of proof to demonstrate free will is on you, bucko.
Why would it ignore the physical world if its part of the physical world? You cant tell me with a serious face that you think communication is a real concept, but free will is too complicated for you to be real.
I just explained why your assumption is incorrect; you are basing your idea of free will on the disembodied consciousness of people who think they can shape time and space. Not only can you not prove anything about that caricature, but it would have zero value to debate it. The fact that you have to reduce all perception of decision making to an illusion, without having any clue how other people perceive it shows you are lazy but thats about it. Maybe youre just a brain in a vat
he typed random letters randomly in an entropic universe and it came out as perfect sentences that I can understand
If you light a fire it has different consequences than if you dont light a fire. If you think you have no control over your body all I can say is, too bad LoL
the only way to be happy is to shape reality in your head to be what you want. grounded enough to be on earth, but delusional enough to ignore the ever present nihilism. then you will have everything you need to become a man of purpose
You're actually too dumb to understand the arguments you're getting into. The complexity of our actions say nothing about FREE WILL.
you think you have no control over your body all I can say is, too bad LoL
This has nothing to do with free will.
This is telling me you're fundamentally misunderstanding this entire thing. Why would it ignore the physical world if it's part of the physical world? Exactly. If your entire being is part of the physical world, you obey cause and effect. Every event is therefore affected by a previous event. Therefore, free will doesn't exist. What do you think free will is? And I never said perception of decision making is an illusion. I said that the idea of an ego, or an identity, is an illusion that causes to think that everything that comes from us somehow makes us worthy of concepts such as respect, which feeds into the idea of free will, as with free will everything people do well is worthy of admiration and anything bad they do is just laziness or evil. This feeds into the idea of free will but the decisions we come to are no more 'free' than a decision a computer would come to.
Proof to me freewill is not a thing, if we really are only a chemical reactions, essentially nothing more than dumb animals but more aware, why are things like suicides or hungerstrikes to the point of death a thing, shouldnt our body/brain actively intervene to stop us from dying, as thats the main criteria for evolution? (Not being dead so you can reproduce) after all, this behaviour is highly counterproductive and thus would be selected out during the bronze age, meaning bodies producing chemicals in the exact way to lead to this behaviour to die out, yet here we are and suicide is still very much around.
The rules are made up and the points don't matter.
obey cause and effect
Right. If you choose one thing or another, there is an effect. The choice itself is processed by you according to what you want. This is free will. If you cant keep up with that conversation because you want to babble incorrectly about what an illusion is defined as, be my guest.
There are more philosophies than determinism by the way. If you reject human experience as a metric altogether you can get into some really interesting stuff.
It does though. The context of free will is always about the choices you make in your individual life. The proponents of determinism believe they have no choice but to do what they feel is natural to them. The failure of this babbys first thought experiment is that it justifies inaction. Naturally, you would just impulsively do stupid shit and either die young or have the foresight to keep yourself alive but just at the bare minimum.
Shouting that time is a flat circle or god is in everything or whatever is just edgy speak. You cant escape the human mind. You have to argue in the context of what a human mind experiences. Physics experiments on subatomic particles dont explain love sufficiently. Maps are imperfect representations.
There isn't choice, there's just cause and effect.
Youre just a brain in a vat
Up till quantum physics came along and fucked up your lil determinism
Love is literally hormones. Are you schizophrenic?
Define a lot? Ugly rich guys slay pussy all the fucking time
No it didn't
It very much proved chance is a factor, and thus that A does not automatically lead to B
The experience of love expressed as a hormone receptor complex is a little cringe to me son.
Books are literally just trees, why do people read them?
You'll have to substantiate your claims, because that runs directly contrary to my understanding of quantum mechanics.
The symbols printed in books carry symbolic meaning that I can interpret because I stored information about those symbols in the neurons in my brain.
Quantum mechanics equations dont have deterministic outputs but you do you.
Good, now that I managed to get a response, mind providing some evidence of your own for determinism beyond "muh chemicals"?
Wrong. Its just trees. Why do people get so emotional over one tree and not the other? Really makes my neurons fire up
As for the "meaning of life":
The shit we do & the things we accomplish are ultimately meaningless. You are less than a grain of sand in the universe and live in a timespan that is nothing compared to the time that was & the time that will come after you. Nothing you do will have any impact on the universe.
The only real meaning you can find is in what you have right now & what you feel right now. If you are happy, that won't change anything, really, but at least you feel good. Given that your wolrdview is the only thing you experience, making the best of your own life is the only thing that really matters.
Also as for the "why are we here?", the simulation theory combined with the many worlds theory is what seems to most plausible to me.
Okey last thing off the top of my head; society tries to keep the status quo. The people can't handle change/different opinions that well & the government wants to be stable with tax paying sheep to keep it running. That is why it is so hard to become the next Bill Gates, Steve Jobs or Elon Musk - because even though there are literally billions of us, most of us never break off from the herd. Oh and drugs can be a good thing if used responsibly (which a lot of people doing them don't due to character flaws that makes them more likely to take drugs, same as gambling etc)
Determinists reject this concept. Those symbols just create chemical reactions when light bounces off them. Also for your autism you get to live another day without improving yourself.
You will have to substantiate that claim. Please at least try to understand that quantum mechanics doesn't definitively prove that events in the universe are random.
Multiple psychosis thought me this:
Everything you perceive is just a construct of your mind. If your mind changes, so does everything around you.
These constructs, believes and perceptions about yourself and the world, are incredibly feeble.
All it needs is a little push and up becomes down, the above becomes the below, reality itself starts to crumble, and everything changes and gets replaced by something completely different. Because this isn't real. This is just a construct of your mind.
There is of course an underlying objective reality, the truth, but it's not what you experience at all. What you live in and think in and feel in is your constructed subjective reality, an illusion in your head, with you wildly hallucinating all the time, and getting terribly delusional about everything.
In this sense, everyone is delusional all the time. No one knows the truth. Some are closer to it than others, sure, but as humans with our limited cognition and senses, we are all terribly far off. You also can't communicate the truth with words or concepts, because those are also just constructed by us, based on our hallucinations and delusions.
So don't trust no human, including you. Best you can do is try to self reflect often, to contemplate your actions, to try to search for truth, to piece together a small part of the puzzle. But never trust anyone claiming to know the truth. You should be in a constant state of self doubt, of asking and re-asking the same questions, but never settle for anything that is presented to you by other humans as "truth". There is no such thing coming from humans.
Holy shit you're an idiot.
why are things like suicides or hungerstrikes to the point of death a thing, shouldnt our body/brain actively intervene to stop us from dying, as thats the main criteria for evolution?
You don't understand evolution... like, at all. Why are people born with Harlequin's disease or with missing limbs? You can clearly understand that people, even in modern times, can be born with physical defects. Well guess what? The brain is a physical organ. It can be afflicted with defect which cause depression and a high death drive.
Humanity is a cancerous infection on this universe that badly needs curing.
he looks into a mirror and sees something that is less than a grain of sand
Too edgy for me dog. You must be sad about something
That I know nothing
t. took the socratic pill
Please explain how chemicals in the brain come to make choices for themselves? If not, I have no reason to accept your 'free will' meme.
My claim is verifiably true.
Symbols can contain subjective meaning, I don't understand why this so difficult to understand.
I can't say I have any, for me determinism seems like the zero value where free will would be the thing that has to be proven. If you want to have a discussion about this I'm totally open.
Why is it a defect if everything is just a chemical reaction? There is no inherent functionality to the larger organism, just different reactions. If anything, you should argue that life is a defect. Statistically, it doesnt even exist in the universe
people act normal becuase it makes it way easier to live with each other. and typically if everyone does the same thing , then its usually for a sensible reason. like washing your hand after you poop or not blowing up a girls phone
Everything in the world is human made, everything we ever have and ever will know was made by other people.
It never really gets better despite what your friends and family will tell you
T. Citybro who's never went out in nature. Take an international flight and you'll realise most of the planet is utterly uninhabited. Humans are bunched up in a few key locations, mostly near water sources such as rivers and shores.
Thats the point, there is no reason to be sad about something that is absolutely meaningless. You will be forgotten, make your time worth while you still have it man!
And unless you believe in paradise/rebirth of some religious "make yourself feel better about death" bs, then you should accept this.
In the grand sceme of things you are nothing. How many people in history mattered? A few hundred in a couple millions. Now? A few thousands in a couple billions. For how long? Maybe 50, 100 or even 500 years but then?
Your lifespan & the things you do/you are part of mean nothing compared to the vast space and time of the universe around you.
I would agree with this. I was just speaking your language.
I am admitting that I use my senses to perceive things and that there are inherent flaws in how those systems work. I'm sorry if you find that underwhelming.
Explain how we can tell that a single chemical out in space is ice cream or a bridge.
Youre making pointless statements. You are the chemicals in your body and brain, the ones you have control over. You cant move the walls like you can move your arms.
Heres a much more relevant question. When was the last time you really challenged yourself to push your limits and take a big risk?
I'll never be happy, nothing in this world can bring me happiness
And that im just a retard that think is intelligent or special but im just a piece of shit
I live in the middle of nowhere deep in Pennsylvania. I am moving to the city though this weekend.
When was the last time you really challenged yourself to push your limits and take a big risk?
Kek, what the fuck even is this argument, and since when were Chad tier talking points acceptable in philosophical debate?
Justice doesn't exist
You are your net worth, though even people in debt are worth more than poor people (cause at least you can collect on them)
Universal truth will never be found
the average human is incredibly moronic and not worth taking seriously
The hedonic treadmill
Life objectively sucks and sometimes death is the most merciful option
There is no space for any certain person in the world. Trying to carve a space out for yourself is like trying to part the ocean.
People are genuinely, like, impressively phenomenally stupid.
Like, how the hell is this possible stupid.
for me determinism seems like the zero value where free will would be the thing that has to be proven
Thats a burden of proof fallacy amigo, and at this point im getting this hunch that discussing freedom of will is as useful as discussing the existence of god
I'm glad you understand that these claims cannot be proven.
If you were speaking that other dudes language you would understand how people can talk about free will and how they lead their lives. The scope of your argument is muh chemicals. You wouldnt have any greater input to a conversation about growing up as you would for a conversation about how shit tastes. Just, muh chemicals. Your conviction about how time works is great but people feel the same way about Gods and multiverses and other nonsense. Youll never get to where you want to be acting like youre above those people
As per George Edgin Pugh, if the brain were so simple we could understand it we would be too simple to understand it
Experience being reducible to just chemicals doesn't make discussion of those experiences any less nuanced than if you believed that everything happens through god or whatever else you could possibly come up with. Determinism doesn't negate sensation or subjective value.
Heres a much more relevant question. When was the last time you really challenged yourself to push your limits and take a big risk?
I just came back from travelling to Qatar you fucki idiot.
You don't understand the arguments you're getting into. You think 'not having free will' equals 'sit and do fuckall'. Learn the basics then come back. But you won't. Because that's not the kind of actions you brain will produce.
I completely agree. I think my intent with these discussions ins't to prove my point, but rather to demonstrate that a deterministic interpretation of the universe isn't just automatically invalid.
This. It's the truth.
//boards.Jow Forums.org/s4s/ is that way. On this board we at least try to make sense.
Determinism is an escape for those who have suffered. Think of all the mistakes, failures, shortcomings, near-wins and inevitable losses you've incurred throughout your life. If you could simply conclude "that's how it was supposed to be" or "alternative scenarios are impossible" then you'd be forgiven of any of fault in these matters. While some people use this to their benefit ("glass half full" type people), many see it as an escape from any sort of responsibility.
It comes to no surprise to me that this thread full of NEETs claiming the universe operates on a deterministic basis. Anything but that would force them to take responsibility for their mistakes.
Taking responsibility is not incompatible with determinism. You could just as easily be successful and say 'that's the way thing are supposed to be'. Half this thread is idiots railing for free will based on a strawman understanding of determinism. For the last time, determinism =/= sit and do nothing.
Also, even if everything you said is true, THAT DOESN'T DISPROVE DETERMINISM. Arguments stand or fall on their own merits, not based on which retarded loser says it.
Youve been strawmanning this whole time and you think its a debate? You dont even know what free will implies. On one hand you think that the chemicals are the self, but on the other you reject that the self is part of the decision making process performed by those components. So again, when was the last time you took your le computer programming and did something that stepped outside of your normal boundaries? Determinism is fine as a philosophical model. It falls short of explaining anything meaningful though. You still have to deal with the uncertainty of life.
I sincerely doubt any NEET is intelligent enough to come up with even a cursory understanding of what determinism means. Your attempt at an ad hominem attack is simply pathetic.
I cant prove determinism so Ill just say it coexists with every other philosophy and worldview
Wrong. Determinism is precisely an argument against taking responsibility because it claims that there was no alternative action. Youre just thinking determinism means it-is-what-it-is. If you can do mental gymnastics for how responsibility is a variable, then you can do the same for free will
Wow mr big brain! Creating big brain actions but still too slow to talk rationally about decision making.
The context of free will is always about the choices you make in your individual life.
No no no no fucking no. Experiential data is not and cannot be your basis for determining free will. You just as easily could be a brain in a vat being fed every single experience you have, being fooled into thinking you're making choices. Just because it 'feels' like you're making a choice, doesn't mean you are.
I haven't used the word chemicals once in this entire thread. If you want me talk about chemicals I would say something like, "the decisions that you make are determined by chemical reactions in your brain that are part of a larger chain of reactions stemming from the stimuli you receive from your senses"
I don't really have boundaries, I've tried many things and I know what I do and don't want. I know that I'm riddled with insecurities, but that doesn't seem to be relevant to this discussion if you read what wrote.
Happiness requires living simple, traditional life
Reject hedonism, stop drinking alcohol and doing drugs, get married and life will be good
I also am not aware of any straw man attacks that I have made.
This isnt an argument. You dont get to have assumptions if you dismiss mine. Im perfectly content with the retarded cousin of the brain in a vat problem. Im just saying that this brain in a vat experiencing choice has reasons to discuss and learn from his choices, and its simply futile to try to prove otherwise as another brain in a vat or artifact of his experience
Lol replied to the wrong post. It was meant for
Determinism is precisely an argument against taking responsibility because it claims that there was no alternative action.
No it isn't dummy. I could just as easily say, I'm going to clean my room because that's what this person does and it could be any other way etc.
And again, even if what you're saying is true it doesn't disprove determinism. You're attacking the argument as though responsibility MUST exist. You're making moral conclusions then working your arguments to match that. That's not how philosophical inquiry works.
There are many experiences in your life that you get one shot at in a very set amount of time and when that time is over you can not have that same experience.
To illustrate the example watching Sesame Street for the first at age two means something very different for you watching it the first time at age twenty two, as an adult you can not enjoy the wonders or experiences the show brings in the same way. If a public broadcast kids show has such a intense difference when you get to see it what would that say about the more complicated parts of your life. There is a timer ticking.
Your brain decides all of your opinions, options and all of that stuff before you do. And if your consciousness ever gets destroyed and replaced with a new one no one would ever know and you would just be basically dead.
Your PHIL 101 is showing.
I never said anything about doing nothing. Claiming that we live in a deterministic model doesn't imply that people don't act. It means that no matter the action; be it A, B, C etc the action was already predetermined. There is a strict path upon which all action (both human, molecular, and logical) follow. Within this complete inevitability of all things that MUST and WILL occur, there is no room for deviation.
Given this, responsibility for ones actions is completely moot as their is no choice. There was never choice. Everyone acts but only with accordance to all things that are within the one path of action, starting from the beginning of time.
Stay off Wikipedia if you actually want to talk about this.
Thats a verbose way of saying that decisions are made by you.
Ill repeat myself. Determinism as some abstract philosophy is fun and simple. It contrasts with multiverse and dualism models. There is some thought provoking stuff when we study biases.
But you cant predict shit for your own life by believing the future is written. If you enter a conversation about your choices in life and claim you dont have any and you just ride the wave, it makes you seem like an idiot and if you only act on impulse you surely are one. The whole point of this thread is important realizations. Determinism is some entry level argument to explain that cause and effect are the same at all scales. The only way I can see that being important is if youre giving up fighting against what you think is natural or fate.
But the idea of responsibility changes the function of the universe, so it would be difficult to outright claim that personal responsibility is moot.
Nice argument. Then determinism doesnt disprove free will. It may be determined that we are allowed infinite possible paths in life and we choose which one we want to experience
That we live on a dying world and every day is objectively worse than the previous.
So I get what you are trying to say and I also understand that people use it as a coping mechanism for having shitty lives, but that doesn't change how the world appears to me, and it doesn't change the fact that it is a valid method of evaluating reality. I don't advocate for "riding the wave" or acting on your impulses like an idiot, I just believe that my existence is a part of a greater whole that functions as a single object. Every time you try to characterize my argument as being a certain thing, that's called a straw man.
This is coming from the perspective of someone using determinism to escape responsibility.
I'm not trying to make an outright claim that people aren't responsible for the things they do or don't do. From the beginning I was claiming that concluding that the Universe is deterministic is an easy solution to the question of "why have I failed?" for those who are bitter about it. That's why I brought up the angry NEETs who just can't seem to catch a break.
Kek, did you just agree with determinism using the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics?
Thats more like buddhism. Anyway if you arent a depressed lazy ninny then I have no arguments for you. We just disagree on where the line is drawn for what free will would mean
Well no shit someone might try to argue that, why would you immediately jump into a conversation about determinism with that assumption though? It makes you look like a dick.
Why are you being such a douchebag about it then?
The jews control the world and we can't do shit about it.
Why quantum mechanics? If there is a determined future that doesnt mean that its a single future. It can be 0, 2, infinite futures. Free will may be determined with some rules around how we can continue to different futures.
This is a classic problem of what you see is all there is.
Because I choose to be. More to the point, because I assume feelings of helplessness in these conversations because of where we are having this conversation and who I was as a kid
That's the last thing I'm gonna worry about when posting on here.
Also, depending on which user you are, I was agreeing with you and attempting to levy an explanation for why determinism is appealing to some anons here.
Lol I was just making a joke user. If the mechanisms behind choice operate in that kind of way then it would be an absolutely rational conclusion to draw.
Those sound like some pretty big assumptions about others based on some flimsy justifications. It's almost like you're allowing events in your life to shape the decisions you make now. I wonder what model of reality explains that the best... oh man, I'm drawing a blank, oh well.
I agree with a deterministic interpretation of the universe, so I doubt we agree. Also I would say that being polite, regardless of the context, is going to be a lot more likely to get people to listen to you than being a jerk, and that's really all the justification you should need.
In infinite time, all things will come to pass. A precise unchanging loop? Maybe, maybe not, we cannot know. But given infinite time, every permutation of every quantum of energy will reoccur an infinite number of times. There have been and will be infinite permutations of "you" - but they aren't you, and you shall never observe them. Savor the skin you're in.
The constant pain, humiliation, denial, and abuse, I deserve all of them. There's no such thing as a person who doesn't deserve their fate.
You're condemned, for good or bad, it's meaningless to protest. Most people are condemned to bad, that's sort of what good means, they're the chosen ones. Once I understood this and stopped trying to convince myself or other people around me things became a lot easier. It's not like I ever managed to convince anyone of anything before anyway, wonder why I kept trying for so long...
That I finally saw I was being catfished after 5 years
My life is bad, so the sooner I start changing things the better. It's too late to enjoy my youth, but if I really try I could live a bit yet...
I was never the type of person who could be with others. Imagining myself having a girl? That was never going to happen, that was a lie you told yourself thinking you could have any part in the world or people's lives. It was worrying about the impossible.
trying to explain to retards determinism
lol what a waste of time
smooth brains can never understand the totality of its implications and instead harp on about responsibility or free will in their masturbatory language games
believe the (((chosen))) people, goy!
yeah no thanks
Thanks for the lesson on productive discourse, but right now you're the only one interpreting my assumption that NEETs can use determinism to dodge responsibility and their NEETdom as rude or dickish. You've yet to argue against that BTW.
Considering the content of this thread and your reliance on me to define determinism for you, it seems you're in good company. Enjoy your lack of choice to be smarter.
but right now you're the only one interpreting my assumption that NEETs can use determinism to dodge responsibility and their NEETdom as rude or dickish.
Your PHIL 101 is showing.
Stay off Wikipedia if you actually want to talk about this.
Enjoy your lack of choice to be smarter.
I think making attacks against a person's intelligence are dickish. Also, I would never be in a position to disagree that NEETs use determinism as an excuse to not improve themselves. I agree with that point, that doesn't disprove determinism.
reincarnation is real and suicide does not affect it al all unless you suicide with the intent of changing your gender
No it isn't dummy
Noble words, my friend.
that doesn't disprove determinism
I have yet to engage in such a pursuit. Believe it or not, I CHOSE not to. Whether or not that was always going to be my choice and whether or not I could have chosen something else is up for you to decide.
Your PHIL 101 is showing
Stay off Wikipedia if you actually want to talk about this.
This is why it pointless to discuss philosophy on this board. You're so concerned with 'muh epic owns' that you're blind to how ridiculous your own arguments are.
Let's start from the beginning. We coul break down the human brain into its constituents eg carbon, oxygen, hydrogen etc. We know that none of them have 'free will'. They can only obey the laws of physics. So, explain the process by which these elements come to make choices.
Oof, this just took a hard left into semantics. I'm done with this conversation, I'm too tired for it.
There's no reason to care about things that aren't under your control.
Noble words, my friend.
Stupid claims deserve stupid answers. You also ignore everything that came after.
Don't bother, he's dodging any actual discussion and is going to rely on slippery fallacies to try to "win"
Believe it or not, I CHOSE not to
You feel like you choose not to. studies have shown that your brain fires impulses before you're aware you've supposedly 'made a choice'.
currently playing kingdoms of alumar. dragons age was super fun but i believe dragons dogma is superior. i need the dlcs for these games and they cost money ;(
In reality we're basically computers, just taking an input, doing some calculations and then producing an output.
It's kind of retarded but that I'm free to waste my pointless life however I want and try to be happy in any way possible.
I guess cuz the whole wage cuck forever, get married, have children path is so pushed on you everywhere it had more effect on me than I'd realized. But no, I never have to have children if I don't want to. I can do whatever I want to make this meaningless existence as good as possible
that life can just be shit and never get better. that you can live a whole life with no friends, no sex, no gf, just slaving away at a shit job until you die. you can suffer it all alone and then you die and nothing redeems that. nobody is guaranteed a happy end. nobody is guaranteed any sense of satisfaction or love or watching their dreams come true. that we're already born and nothing can erase our suffering we've already been through. suffering is the most common thing a living being experiences and even though you never asked to be born it's too fucking late. all you can do is pray for an early death or kill yourself
What has been the greatest realization of your life so far?
Other than that...
Woym don't care about guys, the only seek attention and no matter how much you help them, they will never lift a finger, if you need help.
Not relying on others and going my own way is the only thing that works.
Following others got me abandoned or exiled for outshining the master.
Depending on others means it's done worse than myself every single time unless excessive money is involved.
this shit slap
Exercise, healthy diet and proper hygiene have made me happier than any piece of weeb crap I ever bought.
Good will is correlated with being viewed as a gay.
That i wasnt crazy, nor a man whore for wearing non halal shorts. Also that i am not a woman for "whining" about his unfair treatment. He is a woman for letting his emotions control him and beat my family whenever he lost his leash on us.
It was my narcissistic father that wanted to use religion to control me. I quickly started becoming more cheerful after finding out that the depression i had was a symptom of my avoidant personality disorder, most certainly caused by that fucker.
Our grandparents were right TV and lots of other influences are trying to lead you wrong.
Objectively wrong. Magic is real and you are an eternal spark of the infinite creator godhead.
Jews control everything and if you try to tell people, you will be discarded by society as an "anti-semite" whatever thats supposed to mean.
Fuck them dude. Do whatever the fuck makes you happy. If they call you gay, wink at them. Ive had a similar experience. Its feminine to be kind apparently but ive stopped giving a shit. Makes you happier. Your Happiness > Other's happiness
Believe what you believe, if it makes you happy. No matter what it is. You dont need people to tell you that you are right.
In infinite time, all things will come to pass.
Not if the space of all possibilities has a greater cardinality of infinity than aleph-null units of time.
wink at them
Something tells me the first statement it taken literally.
separating time and space and allowing the possibility that they possess different cardinalities
Only a few people have souls
I believe the number is actually over 50%. There are many "filler" bodies here, especially in the regions of lowest cultural development, but having your own soul isn't all that special. It's not like the filler bodies don't have anything, either. They still have a life after death, but it is more like what happens to animals. It's a simple process of experience-collection and then recycling into a new organism.
I hope you have a source for that ridiculous claim.
It's a two-part source.
First, a simple declassified CIA document affirming the existence of high level supramundane phenomena:
Which mentally prepares you for the highest quality and most comprehensive inter-dimensional transmission. You don't have to read all of it, but here is the particular section which affirms the percentage (54% as of 198X) of incarnate beings which possess free-will (meaning they have a properly individuated soul).
That if you believe in science right now, you have no free will.
Everything is in a certain place with a certain direction and a certain energy.
You are just a result of randomness, everything halpens in exactly one way, and there are no two options.
That jet fuel can't melt steel beams.
Why the FUCK haven't you joined this server yet?
$100 is not a lot at all
a gif might make you happy
Some infinities are bigger than other infinities. What I am getting at is that it's possible that the number of possible things that "could" happen might be a bigger infinity than the number of things that "actually do" happen, all while both still being infinite.
If free will doesn't exist, then whether people sit back and do nothing or not is something they can't control, and therefore it's wrong to look down on them for it. Furthermore, whether or not people use determinism as an 'excuse' for their behaviour doesn't reduce the legitimacy of the argument. In fact, I would say that a human's inclination towards concepts such as responsibility and morals would give them a bias towards the existence of free will as a means of affirming their entire life's meaning.
that the material world doesn't really matter
Death lost it's grasp on me long ago, and yet I yearned for it ever since.
Life is not worth living without empathy
The subconscious is a faggot and is never to be trusted.
Nobody is their own mind.
What do you think 'you' are? You're a collection of your thoughts, feelings, and characteristics. That's the most appropriate way to describe an identity. So then, your subconscious is simply another part of you. How can you be in conflict with it? How can you be in conflict with yourself simultaneously? Just because you are aware of the conscious parts of your brain and unaware of the subconscious parts, doesn't mean that the conscious parts are more 'you'. It's just the 'you' that you can see.
I once did some shrooms and realised I was the universe which was pretty cool.
Considering I am a fucking retard, absolutely nothing; unless figuring out my mother is a lying two faced whore counts, but water is wet and grass is green.
what is this gif from?
some sort of AI that writes for you?
Life is evil, Life needs to feed on another being suffering in order to survive. Thus every evil act is justified because it's just how this world works
I was basically gonna say this
Only you can control what you do not anything else so never let other people get to you just keep trying
Being ugly caused me the utmost misfortune in life, ruined my social standing before I was born, and determined my destiny.
That my adolescent, underdeveloped mind was convinced by the media that being a robot was an evil, sickening state and that I should instead be a normalfag automaton to contribute to their global mental slavery.
I'm an adult now and with my fully developed psyche I've come to realise that I love nothing more than being a robot.
When I die it will be like this nightmare never happened.
What do you think make you happy, if I may ask?
5555? holy fucc
that if I continue to be a NEET in the long run, I will miss out on hundreds of thousands of dollars
being a NEET is a waste because I do nothing but shitpost all
especially considering the true rate of inflation is close to 10% compounding
i know this to be true because the minimum wage goes up 10% every year and yet nobody becomes any wealthier
in ten years, the minimum wage in CA will probably be $30 but health insurance will be $1000/mo
That the world isn't completely terrible, just indifferent and that there is nothing wrong with that.
This. Something is controlling the brain. Because the brain is just nerves and the fingers are just bone and tendons. The brain tells the hand to close,but what tells the brain to give the signal to make the hand close?
Some 3rd party is controlling our minds.
I don't need someone with a vagina around me to define my happiness.
Life is just a massive chemical reaction. A coincidence realy.
That Christ is God and without him I'd be going to hell.
what controls the 3rd party?
when you are talking about cause and effect, do you say "i signed my name on this paper" or do you say "this pen magically signed my name using my hand"
no life is just a wave. no wait, life is just like a baseball game. no wait, life is just a circle
you need to be happy with yourself first. sad true.
That happiness is overrated. Furthermore, to say the meaning of life is "the pursuit of happiness" is downright sinful.
Anxiety does more harm than the worst case scenario 99/100
look at this sad sack
he failed at life
No, it's precisely because I 'succeeded' that I came to this realization.
it's a self defeating realization so no
No matter how hard you work or strive to be independent, it's just not realistically achievable for a lot of people. People need other people, and there's no shame in not being able to handle everything by yourself or needing help. You can't be "the hero" without the support of the people around you, despite the fact that developing independence is more or less marketed as a coming of age.
no matter how much I improve my life I'll always have a barely 5 inch dick.
space travel is useless
Bitches aint shit, but hoes and tricks...
Lick on deez nuts and suck the dick...
The scam of goverment
It doesn't matter how much you want something or someone, a lot of things in life are not meant to be and not meant for you.
Nothing matters so everything does in a way. When your life is so insignificant to the world most people will cling on to dear life to leave the most tiny as little as it is. My realization came when I realize that letting go and aiming for realistic goals is the best choice. Let others suffer from the effects of the endless void Brothers.
No matter how hard you work or strive to be independent, it's just not realistically achievable for a lot of people
I made a similar revelation when I was working on a project a long time ago. I realized that I could never be fully independent (live in complete isolation) for the simple reason that I can't be in two places at once. There are things one man simply cannot do alone, and when the day eventually comes when I need help, and I have no one to call on, I'm fucked. I sincerely hope I see consumer-grade intelligent robot helpers in my life time.
Fuck i wish i could go back, i always hated the fact i was a kid but now, now i know those were the happiest days of my life. I wish i could go back to play with kids of the neighborhood and pretend we are knights in some holy crusade, fuck i miss playing war with those faggots.
But why do we deserve it?
it's just causality
I am very different to everyone else.
Its hard to find friends when you have nothing in common