It's not possible for everyone to be not racist

Aiden Jenkins
Aiden Jenkins

And even "education" doesn't work in many cases, as some highly educated people (even with PhD) have been "racist"

And they never explain what this "education" to make a racist non-racist even is. What is it? "We all bleed red!"

Why can't people accept this? I'm not racist myself but i don't think it will ever go away. It's getting worse now i think

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Other urls found in this thread:

scinapse.io/papers/1244776683
science.sciencemag.org/content/251/4998/1187
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1523-1739.1996.10041115.x
nature.com/articles/ng0200_97
sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/science-genetics-reshaping-race-debate-21st-century/
journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/374899
citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.587.5383&rep=rep1&type=pdf
bestplaces.net/crime/county/kentucky/owsley
bestplaces.net/crime/county/maryland/prince_george's

Henry Adams
Henry Adams

Whoever made this map has no idea what they're doing.

Oliver Gonzalez
Oliver Gonzalez

Yes people like to draw invisible lines. And always will like to do that. But if you educate people they learn to see different viewpoints. Also they get achievements of their own instead of celebrating their inherited skin color as their biggest achievement.
They also understand more about the world and trace their problems to the actual sources instead of blaming everything on ominous "strangers".
They still will draw invisible lines, but more sensible ones. In my case, I feel like other educated people are my peers instead of "the people I share ancestry with". And I don't discriminate against uneducated or dumb people. I pity them and think they can improve.

Asher Martin
Asher Martin

invisible lines
But race is real. No race is "superior" but it's still a real thing

You can see a person's race within 1 second of looking at them. The lines aren't invisible

Camden Ward
Camden Ward

celebrating their inherited skin color as their biggest achievement.
Ok but that's not really the definition of "racist". Some absolutely do this but not all of them. Like i said some "racists" have PhD
blaming everything on ominous "strangers"
Everything? Really?

I am going by a dictionary definition of the word not a meme. Most "racists" don't fit this cartoonish idea you are pushing
Certainly most racists are stupid people. So are most non racists

I feel like other educated people are my peers instead of "the people I share ancestry with"
Ok but do you think it's irrational for people to treat their family better than random people?

Adam Ortiz
Adam Ortiz

The lines are arbitrary. Why not call all people who cannot process lactose a race? That would make more sense as a biological race definition than the "race" bullshit that people currently apply. There is no definite line.

Andrew Cox
Andrew Cox

The lines are arbitrary.
Correct, just like species
All taxonomic classifications are arbitrary human inventions

Why not call all people who cannot process lactose a race? That would make more sense as a biological race definition than the "race" bullshit that people currently apply.
Because it is based on common descent

There is no definite line.
i agree. But there doesn't have to be

Look, i am using the definition "human subspecies" for the major races

I do not deny that you can conjure up some silly definition of the word "race" to prove your point. This is obviously fallacious though

If we apply the same standards we apply to other mammalian species, we would discover that there are separate subspecies. In other words, homo sapiens is polytypic with regards to subspecies

THERE IS NO INFERIOR RACE/SUBSPECIES. It is unscientific to claim otherwise

But yes race exists despite being "arbitrary" like species and it is based on common descent , which is why it can be determined with >99% accuracy using a few genetic markers

Jaxon Rodriguez
Jaxon Rodriguez

Look up articles on Leukenia and donor compatibility. People with mixed race backgrounds need mixed race donors of the same backgrounds, otherwise they experience rejection. They're genetically incompatible otherwise.

Jayden Moore
Jayden Moore

LMAO USA=enlightened???? this is a joke

Cooper Myers
Cooper Myers

Nah, racists tend to be dumber than average. A few exceptions exist, yes, but they are fucked up in the head.
And this is the point, educated people who share my memes (in the original sense of the word, not internet memes) are my family more than some random person who shares a little bit more of my genes.

William Baker
William Baker

Species is not arbitrary. Species definition is that two individuals can produce fertile offspring.
And I really see no sense in your arbitrary race/subspecies definitions, at least not more than in the lactose tolerant race.

John Morales
John Morales

I hate when /pol/fags bring their garbage here. Not as obnoxious as the tranny shit, but still obnoxious.

Jack King
Jack King

Nobody denies that people are more closely related to some people than to some other people. Doesn't mean we have to start talking about races.

Matthew Moore
Matthew Moore

Is James D Watson a racist?

He had a lot to be proud of. More accomplished than everyone in this thread combined

Robert Green
Robert Green

Why is America enlightened? Yanks are just more dumb Brits. Most of them cant control their eating habits or connect the dots to understand why they're depressed.

They love mcdonalds, overprescribing meds and 75% of the coutnry are dumb hicks

Hudson Howard
Hudson Howard

Doesn't mean we have to start talking about races.

We don't have to talk about anything

Race is real. And it gets talked about in multiracial places

Inuit people don't talk about blacks. Why? They probably never saw 1

Samuel Kelly
Samuel Kelly

Except that's exactly what you're doing when you deny race isn't a classification of the different sub-species of man. Using weasel words and trying to talk circles around the subject won't endear you to anyone.

Aiden Ortiz
Aiden Ortiz

We still have the choice to stick to those arbitrarily drawn lines or not. I see no profit in drawing those lines. I just see lots of harm coming from that.

Brandon Robinson
Brandon Robinson

Bullshit. I am just saying by the same logic I could call you and your family a race. Where we draw the "race" line is all up to us. Or if we draw it at all. Where or if we draw it doesn't interfere with the fact that some people are more closely related than others. For example you and your dad/uncle.
You claiming this just shows you have 0 exposure to actual bio science in your life.

Andrew Nelson
Andrew Nelson

could call you and your family a race. Where we draw the "race" line is all up to us. Or if we draw it at all.
Correct

A race is simply a large, extended family

But usually meant to mean "human subspecies"

Subspecies is defined by scientists & when applied to humans the major races are different subspecies.

Charles Darwin admitted that varieties (subspecies) doesn't differ much from species and the labels are "arbitrarily given for the sake of convenience"

Thomas Perry
Thomas Perry

We still have the choice to stick to those arbitrarily drawn lines or not.
Correct. But if we apply the same standards to humans as we do to all other species then we understand that there are different subspecies

I see no profit in drawing those lines.
Ok but that's just your opinion

I just see lots of harm coming from that.
Yep. But i see harm in people who say "races dont scientifically exist. Racism is bad"

The first statement is wrong but the second is correct. But they just lost credibility by making that initial false statement

Then someone says

"Race (human subspecies) is scuentifically real. also racism is good"
They look more credible because they followed an opinion with a fact

Owen Lopez
Owen Lopez

I get that you're trying to use critique theory and you're attempting to deconstruct well concepts, but that shit isn't going to work. Race is genetic, fullstop.

Nathan Thomas
Nathan Thomas

Darwin is outdated in many things, dude. And no, different subspecies can produce fertile offspring, whereas different species can not.

Again, only morons with 0 scientific background will actually think the "race" bullshit to be more than arbitrary. To them someone who says "climate change is a hoax because today is a cold day" is also credible.
This is why they are not part of my tribe.

Race is an arbitrary line that you draw in genetics. Genetics are real. Race is an arbitrary label system. And I studied biology. Thank you though for trying to educate me on genetics. But I fear I could teach you more than you could teach me.

Sebastian Morgan
Sebastian Morgan

The US are enlighted but countries such as France aren't ? Get Pedro out of your country and create a decent healthcare system before you fucking think about pretending that your niggercucked country is any better than mine in any way, shape or form.

Adrian Collins
Adrian Collins

You misconstrued that anons statement and are implying that he said that different race meant different species, which he did not do. He correctly used the term sub-species, which is interchangeable with race in terms of classification. To get down to brass tax, though, to be of a different race, or sub-species, means you are a distinct group from a particular geographic location. Why you're trying hand-wave the valid distinction between different populations of people astounds me.

As an aside, what did you "study" to make you so keen on the idea that race, a visually verfiable thing, doesn't exist?

Luis Nelson
Luis Nelson

Please nuke Africa already

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Benjamin Fisher
Benjamin Fisher

I have misread the user. user is correct in saying that sibspecies/race is arbitrarily given.

And "visible"?? Like I said, to some idiots it is "visible" that the polar caps grew despite climate change. But those idiots don't take into account that the MASS of the ice is actually way less, it is just spread out thinly.
So, not everything "visually verifyable" is the truth, makes sense or is a useful scientific category.

Jaxson Flores
Jaxson Flores

Having a PhD is not an achievement

Liam Cooper
Liam Cooper

fully open source
Thats what he claims. You have no way of verifying wether the software that actually runs on his server is what he publishes

Thomas Clark
Thomas Clark

Race is an arbitrary line that you draw in genetics. Genetics are real. Race is an arbitrary label system.
Just like species

Zachary Williams
Zachary Williams

noooooooo, slowpoke user is at it again.
No, dude, species means "able to produce fertile offspring with each other". So it is by no means arbitrary.

Kayden Torres
Kayden Torres

You're conflating two different situations and talking around the point of discussion instead of actually addressing the point itself. Race can be verified by genetic testing and is also usually mirrored in self identification. People from different geographic locations look and sound different, that's just fact. Identifying groups of people based off of their facial features and speech is no different than identifying a bird off of its plumage and call, and can be done just as reliably. Will there be outliers and exceptions? Sure. But that doesn't change the fact that it can be done, and is done.

Matthew Garcia
Matthew Garcia

Again, only morons with 0 scientific background will actually think the "race" bullshit to be more than arbitrary.
Everyone understands it to be "arbitrary" just like species

Doesn't mean the categories don't describe real differences

Johan Blumenbach (1795), the founder of physical anthropology, when arguing that a 5 race scheme was better than 3, 4 or 6, race scheme, said:
Five principal varieties of mankind may be reckoned. As, however, even among these arbitrary kinds of divisions, one is said to be better and preferable to another, after a long an attentive consideration, all mankind, as far as it is at present known to us, seems to me as if it may best, according to natural truth, be divided into the five following varieties: which may be designated and distinguished from each-other by the names Caucasian, Mongolian, Ethiopian, American, and Malay.

Please reread that again. He used the word "arbitrary"

Chase Wilson
Chase Wilson

Wrong. various examples exist of different species who can interbreed and produce fertile offspring

Coyote, jackal, dog & wolf

Pintail and mallard

Different orangutan species

Bonobo and chimp

The list goes on and on

Aaron Gonzalez
Aaron Gonzalez

species means "able to produce fertile offspring with each other". So it is by no means arbitrary.

Yes it is arbitrary. that definition (is wrong, but assuming it isn't) is arbitrary. they could have defined it differently (and have)

For the record. "Subspecies" also has a definition too

Gavin Myers
Gavin Myers

Lactose tolerance can also be verified by genetic testing. Doesn't make it a "race", my slow friend.
Yes there are race "identities" but i think them aaaaall dumb. And we'd be better off without using those arbitrary lines to define ourselves. African tribes are so hugely different from one another, culture-wise. By just calling them all "african race" and encouraging them to think of themselves like this, we are not promoting diversity, we are in fact destroying it. Same for "white" people and everybody else.
In the mountains in europe, people from two different valleys can look and sound very different. And have very different culture and are reasonably well apart, genetically. According to your logic that already makes them different races. And in fact it officially would do that, if they were a bird.
Not everything that CAN be done SHOULD be done. Because it is dumb and pointless.

Dylan Bennett
Dylan Bennett

For the sake of most biology discussions, you're correct. And, frankly, for the duration of this thread, we'll use the species definition that's most used. HOWEVER, there's a shitton of precedent of inter-species breeding that created viable offspring. Bonobos/chimpanzees, Neanderthal/Denisovan, basically all fish, etc. However, that's not conductive to conversation, but understand that you're not 100% on that point.

Caleb Jackson
Caleb Jackson

Then they are the same species

Dominic Cooper
Dominic Cooper

That there are blurry lines where the gap is just barely large enough to be beyond race is a given, friend. Still there IS a strong definition. While a "race" line can be drawn ANYWHERE where some trait is homocygotic. Like lactose tolerance.

Camden Cook
Camden Cook

Props to you, user. This is productive thinking. I am honestly surprised. This made my day. Someone who is NOT nitpicking needlessly to push their line of argument.
I really wish you'd lose the weird fascination with race. Outside of america people don't think in "races" with humans, so this is really an alien concept to us. Well, only racists here think in races. And it works fine. I think it offers more diversity if you think of someone as "having burkina faso ancestors" than of thinking "this is a a person of african race". Culture-wise, medicine-wise, biology-wise and even ethical-wise.

Ryder Bennett
Ryder Bennett

a "race" line can be drawn ANYWHERE
Wrong 100%
You're redefining the term

Christopher Gomez
Christopher Gomez

we will use a definition
even though it is wrong

Nope

Henry Sullivan
Henry Sullivan

Outside of america people don't think in "races" with humans, so this is really an alien concept to us.
This isn't true at all though

Most people dont think about races. So what? People don't think about a lot of legitimate concepts

Easton Lopez
Easton Lopez

So if you got arrested and the jailer said you can chose to get thrown in a cell with 10 white people or 10 black people you would just say "either one, don't matter to me!"

Because if not then you see the utility of race whether you admit it or not. And if so then you are really naive and need to get out more because even if you don't see race, those people of another race sure as hell do.

Logan Morgan
Logan Morgan

Nope. According to scientists they arent, actually

In fact just a few years ago those different orangutan species were changed from just subspecies to species

That is a definion you use but doesn't apply to reality. You insist on it because you think it proves species isnt arbitrary evem though it doesn't

Lucas Gonzalez
Lucas Gonzalez

It's a question of familiarity. America has 320-ish million people from nearly every country in the world. I'm not going to remember the name of every bantu tribe in Botswana, or be familiar with all of the different ethnic/cultural castes from India, so it's easier and more efficient to group people into easily identifiable chunks. Are there differences between the Bantu and Zulu tribes, or between Ethiopians and the Egyptians? Absolutely.

However, these labels like "African", "European", "Asian", and so on are still relatively useful means of classifying people. If you like in a country of less than 15 million people and have a homogeneous society, I can see how you might not like racial classification. However, until you've had to live in a multi-culti, you won't see the value in it.

Aiden Campbell
Aiden Campbell

No I am not. A race literally can be any homocygotic trait. Subspecies is something different though.

It is not wrong, silly user. You are just not versed well enough in science to understand this.

An arbitrary label without any benefit whatsoever is not my definition of a "legitimate concept". Why group together "whites" instead of grouping together mediterranean folks, skandinavian folks etc? Why group "black" folks when south africans have so little in common with ivory coast people?

Liam Baker
Liam Baker

Concessions have to be made to have conversation. The debate on what is or isn't a species has been going on for like 70 years, and we're not going to solve it on a Rhodesian farming newsgroup.

Jaxon Sullivan
Jaxon Sullivan

Race is equivalent to sub-species. Lactose intolerance is a condition, not a population group. Don't be coy.

Jayden Russell
Jayden Russell

A burguer made this, ofc

Zachary Long
Zachary Long

. A race literally can be any homocygotic trait. Subspecies is something different though.

I agree that you have redefined the word "race" to mean that

But nobody else is using that definition

The definitions actually used;
-a very large extended family that is partly inbred
- subspecies

Connor Martinez
Connor Martinez

It would not matter to me in my country. If i'd live in a country where blacks have a way weaker socioeconimic position (due to racism) then the chances to meet rude black people who might harbour some hate for me would be larger and I might have some statistical concerns about the black people. But here? nope.

This simplification is a bad thing, friend. Grouping up people in just 2 or even just 4 major cagtegories is bad and wrong. It leads to a political landscape as you can see in america, with just two big parties who both suck and who divide the country in partisanship. If you leave room for more diversity and smaller groups, then people don't esalate into this "two powers cold war" bullshit. Same for countries. Just have two world powers will lead to tension and eventuall war.

Jose Davis
Jose Davis

It is not wrong, silly user. You are just not versed well enough in science to understand this.
Yes it is. many examples have been provided in this exact thread, and your only response is:
"Lol then the taxonomic classification system used by scientists is wrong"

You have a tendency to redefine words to fit your preconceived notions. This is fallacious. It's the equivocation fallacy

To be accurate you must say
races arent real by the definition i invented myself for the purpose of claiming race isnt real, in contrast to the definition used for centuries

Blake Ramirez
Blake Ramirez

Actually dog breeders and cat breeders use the very same definition as I do. Because breeding a cat with crippled front legs (only one gene change involved in this afaik) lead to the race (or abomination) of kangaroo cats.

Kevin Bennett
Kevin Bennett

An arbitrary label
Like species
without any benefit whatsoever
Merely your opinion, and irrelevant to the point

is not my definition of a "legitimate concept"

I don't care about YOUR definition because you just change your definitions at whim, unlike a dictionary

Why group together "whites" instead of grouping together mediterranean folks, skandinavian folks etc?
There are such classifications. Nordic and Mediterranean are sub races within the caucaoid race
Just like "negroid" and "caucasoid" are subraces of the human race (or species)

Why group "black" folks when south africans have so little in common with ivory coast people?
Well actually anthropologists have claimed capoid (khoisan, hottentots) are a separate race from negroids

Liam Williams
Liam Williams

Nope, nobody uses that definition except you, or in an informal context

Anyway here we are using "race" to be synonymous with "subspecies"

Jason Russell
Jason Russell

I think you have the misconception that war and conflict is somehow avoidable with more players. Competition between 50 of anything, person, country, animal, etc., leads to fiercer competition than 2 of a thing. Smaller numbers and less variables leads to predictability, which leads to stability. I don't like the two party system any more than the next guy, but it will work until we can get off this rock.

Luke Powell
Luke Powell

Grouping up people in just 2 or even just 4 major cagtegories is bad and wrong

I disagree, but even if i didnt it would be irrelevant

Scientists shouldn't be worried about the alleged social spinoffs of their findings
Report the truth, dont withold information because someone may use it to "justify hate"

By that logic we should not teach the history of slavery because it might cause whites and blacks to do a racism against each other

Elijah Myers
Elijah Myers

I never doubted scientific definitions. Because they (in this case the "A Dictionary of Genetics") say "race/subspecies are arbitrarily defined within a species." And that defining races shoudl be done where it serves a purpose. And I say defining human races serve no good purpose.
Booyah.

Blake Rodriguez
Blake Rodriguez

Concessions have to be made to have conversation.
But the definition you are insisting on is objectively wrong

Zachary Rogers
Zachary Rogers

So you admit that for a white person living in the USA that it is in their best interests to pay attention to this thing called "race" in order to keep themselves and their families safe.

Carson Gutierrez
Carson Gutierrez

Nonsense. Your opinion doesnt decide for the world whether acknowledging race is meaningful

We are using "subspecies" definition of race. Hold on i will post what the scientists determined

Jayden Brooks
Jayden Brooks

Not if you read the FULL definition of race in genetic textbooks. And not just the first sentence.

Justin Cooper
Justin Cooper

DEFINITION OF SUBSPECIES

In response to questionable interpretations of the U.S. Endangered Species Act, and to help ensure the evolutionary significance of populations deemed "subspecies," a set of criteria was outlined in the early 1990s by John C. Avise, R. Martin Ball, Jr.[1], Stephen J. O"Brien and Ernst Mayr [2] which is as follows: "members of a subspecies would share a unique, geographic locale, a set of phylogenetically concordant phenotypic characters, and a unique natural history relative to other subdivisions of the species. Although subspecies are not reproductively isolated, they will normally be allopatric and exhibit recognizable phylogenetic partitioning." Furthermore, "evidence for phylogenetic distinction must normally come from the concordant distributions of multiple, independent genetically based traits."[3]

1.scinapse.io/papers/1244776683
2.science.sciencemag.org/content/251/4998/1187
3.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1523-1739.1996.10041115.x

Gavin Thompson
Gavin Thompson

see the definition of subspecies i just posted

Using that definition, homo sapiens is polytypic with regards to subspecies

I don't care what goofy politically charged definition your cherry picked book chooses

If whites and blacks are different sub species but you refuse to recognize they are different "races" you just look silly

Levi Perez
Levi Perez

No. To keep their families safe they need to combat social inequality and not reinforce old divisions. They need to get a good social security net to prevent their neighbours from descending into poverty and to help recreate a strong and stable middle class. Instead of giving all the money to the rich people in the vague and misguided hope to one day be one of them.

Jason Jackson
Jason Jackson

estonia is fucking enlightened? what are you fucking retarded mate?

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Tyler Roberts
Tyler Roberts

It serves an excellent purpose. When I move to a city, I look up the racial demographics. If it's less than 80% white, I don't move there. Why? Because living around non-whites is shit. I get that you probably live in some <5 million population country like Estonia or Finland with a crazy high homogeneous society, but distinction by race is EXTREMELY valuable in the US.

Juan Reyes
Juan Reyes

Wrong. white people arent better off as a minority around other races taught since 4 years old their ancestors were unfairly persecuted and oppressed by white people solely because of skin, and that's the only reason they arent as successful

Jaxon Mitchell
Jaxon Mitchell

What's the issue buddy??

Michael Hall
Michael Hall

Races and subspecies are arbitrary lines. I also debate the "subspecies" thing. Read the ENTIRE definition of race, not only the first 2 sentences.

nature.com/articles/ng0200_97
sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/science-genetics-reshaping-race-debate-21st-century/
or

"race [...] is arbitrary."
Robert C. King, William D. Stansfield: A Dictionary of Genetics. Oxford University Press, New York 1997 page 285

Kevin Wright
Kevin Wright

Blacks in this country get free healthcare, free housing, free food, free education, and free job allocation programs. We have multi-generational welfare households where, despite all of the government assistance, there are children of children of children who have never worked a professional career. >80% of black children are born out of wedlock, and 13% of the population is responsible for 50% of the violent crime.

Frankly, I don't know what can be done for blacks except putting them back into slavery and forcing them to be productive members of society for another 3 generations.

Henry Hernandez
Henry Hernandez

the country is an absolute shithole and the population is fucking retarded, and this is coming from an estonian.

Jacob Scott
Jacob Scott

Come to America and visit Atlanta. Whitey isn't keeping anyone down there, it's all being done by other Blacks.

Carter Roberts
Carter Roberts

But this is the fucking truth. My children probably will be fucked up due to the mental health issues of my family that can be traced down to WW2 things happening that mentally fucked up all my grandparents and made them shitty parents. Trauma carries over generations. That is a fact. WW2 trauma is still affecting people's life. And WW2 was a relatively short period of time, compared to centuries of slavery, racism, inequality and segragation.

Austin Hill
Austin Hill

the history people are taught in school
truth

Pick 1 bud

Jace Bennett
Jace Bennett

First I hate your OP picture.
Secondly are you kidding? There are some highly educated people that are racists but they also happen to be narcissistic. Racism is much more like mind control for the populace. See how they run American prisons for example? All people that were racists that I met in my life were lowly educated.

Jonathan Sanchez
Jonathan Sanchez

You sound like you come from a family with low socio.econimic status, user. And your children also will be like that because you teach them your ways. Also I doubt you have a healthy relationship. So, should YOU and your offspring be a slave as well? Or just people like who who happen to produce more melanin?

Jordan Myers
Jordan Myers

trauma is multi-generational
Are you Jewish, by chance?

Lincoln Harris
Lincoln Harris

Move America to civilized

Caleb Watson
Caleb Watson

No. Just a random european whose grandpas had to fight and kill in war as teenagers and whose grandmas got raped as teenagers during war. Fucked them up in the head. Which in turn fucked my parents up. Which fucked me up. Which will fuck my children up. We are improving every generation, but it will take some more time until we cannot trace back our family tragedies to WW2.

Nathan Rogers
Nathan Rogers

Races and subspecies are arbitrary lines. I also debate the "subspecies" thing. Read the ENTIRE definition of race, not only the first 2 sentences.

Yes species is arbitrary. So is "food"
Remember: scientists who believe in race know it's "arbitrary" - all taxonomic classifications are arbitrary

Your argument is stupid. You're confusing the word. you think because the lines drawn are "arbitrary" (a fact) they can be redrawn in any manner or method and you will achieve something just as legitimate (which is to say, not legitimate at all)
This is wrong. it's flawed thinking

Read:


Johan Blumenbach (1795), the founder of physical anthropology, when arguing that a 5 race scheme was better than 3, 4 or 6, race scheme, said:
Five principal varieties of mankind may be reckoned. As, however, even among these arbitrary kinds of divisions, one is said to be better and preferable to another, after a long an attentive consideration, all mankind, as far as it is at present known to us, seems to me as if it may best, according to natural truth, be divided into the five following varieties: which may be designated and distinguished from each-other by the names Caucasian, Mongolian, Ethiopian, American, and Malay.

Carter Perez
Carter Perez

I did indeed come from a family of low-socioeconmic status. In fact, I was homeless for a number of years. However, while low socio-economic status does often correlate with criminality, statistically, the poorest white neighborhoods commit less crime than the richest black neighborhoods. Square that circle for me.

Juan Hill
Juan Hill

"race [...] is arbitrary."
Nobody is denying it

It just doesnt imply or mean what you think it does

Matthew Ross
Matthew Ross

Outdated.
sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/science-genetics-reshaping-race-debate-21st-century/

And I said races are legit when you have a legit reason to draw the line. It is ok to call a poodle a race to distinguish it from a dachshund, if you are into dog shapes and want to make them a thing.
But if you don't want to make something a thing, then don't make it a race.
I am debating that human races are legit because while arbitrary, race definitions should serve a useful purpose.
I say the race bullshit from the 18th century has no benefit for us and thus is not legit and not better than some other arbitrary race definition like lactose tolerance.
Do you understand me now?
Race = only legit when useful (in a scientific way e.g.)
but: human races = not useful, on the contrary even.
Thus: human races = not legit.

Benjamin Wright
Benjamin Wright

Outdated
Not a refutation at all

On the Concept of Race in Chinese Biological Anthropology: Alive and Well
journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/374899

The only place in the world where scientists have a consensus on whether human races are real is china. the consensus is that they exist
This also happens to be one of the only places where it is not politically charged to say such a thing

And i posted the subspecies definition used by scientists. If we apply the same definition we apply to other animals to humans, we will find homo sapiens is polytypic with regards to subspecies

Colton Powell
Colton Powell

citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.587.5383&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Actually scientific research suggests the opposite of what you are saying. They find there is no difference in crime reduction between black & white neighbourhoods if an area gets wealthier.

And see? I am not actually discriminating against you, user. Props to you that you improved. But the same way you discriminate against blacks i COULD discriminate against you. If I were an asshole.
Don't be an asshole, user.

Grayson Foster
Grayson Foster

I say the race bullshit from the 18th century has no benefit for us and thus is not legit and not better than some other arbitrary race definition like lactose tolerance.

It has use
Your personal opinion doesnt matter anyway
the definition of "subspecies" which you ignored shows homo sapiens as polytypic
Lactose intolerance is one trait and also cannot fit the definition of race which is about common descent

Two people of the same race always have a child who is their race
Not the same with other individual traits

Please reread the definition provided

Carson Jenkins
Carson Jenkins

The accompanying link was a refute.
Your article just shows that chinese people in china are racist. Which is no news to me. They even fake-news their philogeny to claim the are different from all other humans on the planet.

Owen Green
Owen Green

Distinction and classification of different soil types probably has absolutely no meaning to the average person, but it's still useful to geologists and structural engineers. Similarly, just because you live in what amounts to an ethnostate doesn't mean the distinction isn't vitally necessary for other countries. You don't live in the environment where it's necessary to discriminate between different groups of people.

John Bennett
John Bennett

actually lactose tolerance IS about common ancestry.
And again, "subspecies" is a concept you CAN use if you have an interest in dividing a species in a certain way. Even one different gene locus + some moving can be enough to define a new subspecies. WHERE you draw those lines thus is ALSO depending on your intentions.
And I think the intentions behind the weird 5-races bullshit are bad and the results from this arbitrary categorization are damaging society and people's life.

Tyler Peterson
Tyler Peterson

True. But I say in YOUR environment it would be wiser if you ditched this thinking also. Because it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It makes sense only because you used it for so long. It harms people. Ditch it.

Ethan Diaz
Ethan Diaz

That paper says that a decrease in poverty leads to a decrease in crime in both white and black neighborhoods. It in no way refutes my statement that that the richest black neighborhoods still have more violent crime than the poorest white neighborhoods. And I don't care if you discriminate against me. There's nothing you can say or do that's worse than having to live around blacks.

Ryder Smith
Ryder Smith

And again, "subspecies" is a concept you CAN use if you have an interest in dividing a species in a certain way.

Correct. Same applies to species. It's something you CAN use if you want to divide genus's
Some people may object to that. It's perfectly reasonable

But if you apply the same standards we apply to other species to determine if they have subspecies to humans, we will find there are separate subspecies

"BUT THERE IS NO REASON TO IT DOESNT HELP ANYTHING IT ONLY MAKES PPL RACIST"

Maybe so, but irrelevant & also an opinion

Ryder Murphy
Ryder Murphy

And I think the intentions behind the weird 5-races bullshit are bad
"Bad" is subjective, arbitrary

and the results from this arbitrary categorization are damaging society and people's life.
Wrong. It's because racism is bad (i truly believe this) but the anti racists shoot themselves in the foot by pretending there are no races and thus lose all credibility. And then the racists look the most credible

Stop denying reality

And no you can't make a subspecies based on lactose tolerance. See the definition i provided

Ryan Cooper
Ryan Cooper

Yeah, that sort of idealist nonsense is how you get your shit stolen and get into fights every other day because you're not aware of your demographics when you choose a new place to live. No thanks.

Michael Cruz
Michael Cruz

It actually is STRONG evidence for your claim to be a) wrong (because i couldn't find your data anywhere) or b) being linked to a third factor that you don't take into account. Maybe "the richest black neighbourhoods" are still ghettos? while the "poorest white neighbourhoods" are actually wealthier and have a better infrastructure?
Dude, I get it that if you are at the bottom, you want to put someone even below you. to feel better. but that is delusional and dumb. please, don't fuel my "low socioeconomic status" prejudices by acting so stereotypical.

Tyler Thompson
Tyler Thompson

I make 82k a year with full benefits, have 2.5 acres of land, a 2700 square foot house that overlooks a lake, and work only half the year. I am nowhere near the top, but I'm not at the bottom either. I've lived amongst the poorest whites and the poorest blacks, and you wouldn't know the difference between a middle class white neighborhood and poor one, minus dirtier homes and few missing teeth.

As a rebuttal, the richest black neighborhood in USA is Prince George county in Maryland, while the poorest white county is in Owsley county, Kentucky.

Compare:
bestplaces.net/crime/county/kentucky/owsley
Vs
bestplaces.net/crime/county/maryland/prince_george's

Angel Watson
Angel Watson

Bullshit. There is no way you could erase the "species" line between you and a tardigrade ever, since you cannot have offspring. While it takes no big effort to erase the "race" line between black and white people.

Kevin Flores
Kevin Flores

like i said, your socioeconomic status mentality will stick to you. no matter how rich you get. the only way out of this is education.
I am STILL waiting for the source of the data you claim.

Jose Cruz
Jose Cruz

I just gave you those two links to the two counties in question. If you don't trust the links, do the search yourself. Search: richest black county usa and poorest white county. Look at the two crime indexes on that website, or anywhere else. Owsley county, the poorest white community, is less than 10, while Prince George County, the richest black, is over 40 on the crime index. Right there, plain as day, black and white.

And what "education" nonsense are you going on about? I've already been to college, don't need to go again any time soon. If anyone here is uneducated, it's YOU. You're spouting platitudes and idealistic non-sense about how the world should be when you've never lived in a majority black neighborhood, much less had to interact with them on a daily basis. Ludicrous.

Noah Davis
Noah Davis

Correction, I mixed up the violent and property crime on the Maryland county. 7.8 for Owsley, 24 Prince George on the crime index. Do you need something more specific?

Adrian Brooks
Adrian Brooks

There is no way you could erase the "species" line between you and a tardigrade ever, since you cannot have offspring. While it takes no big effort to erase the "race" line between black and white people.

So what?? You're hopelessly confused if you think that refutes what i said. at all.

One could easily classify humans and tardigrades into the same group.
They are animals too . Just don't go any further than that

Why classify coyotes, jackals, wolves & dogs as separate species if they reproduce and create fertile offspring?

Like i said, just a few years ago an orangutan subspecies was reclassified into a separate orangutan species. Yet they can produce fertile offspring

Using your same "logic" there is no standard by which if given 4 populations and told to classify them into two groups based on genes or common descent:
Swedes, Italians, nigerians, ghanians
Would you ever classify Nigerians and swedes into one group, and Italians and ghanians into another

So using your same logic you can prove the validity of these groups just as one can agree chimps are closer to humans than tardigrades are

This is what basically blumenbach said. It's arbitrary but you find 5 different experts and tell them to group people in 5 racial groups, they're gonna do it basically the same way

Jaxson Price
Jaxson Price

There is no way you could erase the "species" line between you and a tardigrade ever
There is no way to erase the very real differences between whites and blacks without miscegenation either

You just bury your head in the sand and pretend they don't exist

Chase James
Chase James

Blacks commit crimes at a higher rate than whites even at the same income group

Blacks have a higher frequency of the 2 repeat allele of the mao-a gene, associated with violent antisocial behavior

Race is a better predictor of violent crime in a us state than poverty anything else. Only single motherhood rates comes close

Pic related source:
Zaw, K., Hamilton, D., & Darity, W., Jr. (2016). Race, wealth and incarceration: Results from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth. Race and Social Problems, 8(1), 103-115.

Table 6

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Jaxon Campbell
Jaxon Campbell

user with the proofs. Good job.

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