Such is the state of Christianity in the West: a half-empty church filled with grey heads.
We need to start doing honest evangelism again or we're going to get the society we deserve.
>But some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Him, “Teacher, rebuke Your disciples!” 40“I tell you, He answered, “if they remain silent, the very stones will cry out.”
>Luke 13:39-40
Other urls found in this thread:
federationforchildren.org
self-directed.org
tertullian.org
newadvent.org
ccel.org
eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov
academia.edu
perseus.tufts.edu
youtu.be
newadvent.org
earlyjewishwritings.com
life.church
twitter.com
We need to destroy the government-funded education system to do it. Tax dollars go to a system telling the youth every day that the Bible is false.
We HAVE GOT to end compulsory education, and from there go after the colleges.
If you want to actively do something, here are organizations to support:
The American Federation for Children advocates for school choice vouchers, I.E. helping children go somewhere other than a government school
Advocates for the abolition of compulsory, centralized education
People's actions are simply manifestations of their beliefs, and the beliefs of the weak-minded are determined by whatever they hear often enough. Defeat secularist-infested government education and they lose their primary way of producing secularists
If you want more people to join Christianity, you have to destroy their ability to fact-check your claims. Fact-checking is easier thanks to smartphones and internet access. You also have to isolate them from other people that will tell them about the thousands of other religions that exist too. if they start researching those, they'll notice how much they have in common with Christianity and how they have just as much evidence for their claims as people do for Christianity. so if you can start by really hammering this idea into people before they have the necessary information or intelligence to question it's validity you have a chance but the only people that are that undeveloped are children and people that have fried countless brain cells on alcohol and drugs. so this looks like an uphill battle. best of luck
There is no God. Christianity only spread in America because of the Industrial Revolution.
pay your taxes!
>We HAVE GOT to end compulsory education, and from there go after the colleges.
Doesn't go far enough. Any education outside of the Bible leads people away from Christ. Education should be banned.
the only white people left are grey heads.
place will be New Africa soon
>Christianity spread because people had enhanced access to Christian literature and a better understanding the contributions individual Christians made to humanity
Sounds about right.
that's a whole lot more words than necessary, if you wanted call us all drug addicts and children you should have just done so. Efficiency is a rational principle to live by, you know.
If people would actually investigate it instead of reading Wikipedia articles, they'd easily see its truth.
Take all the evidence we have for the darkness and earthquake that took place at Jesus' crucifixion that passages like Mark 15:33 and Matthew 27:51 talk about for example.
Non-Christian ancient historians reported this darkness and earthquake, though they tried to explain it as an eclipse:
>in the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad, an eclipse of the sun happened, greater and more excellent than any that had happened before it; at the sixth hour, day turned into dark night, so that the stars were seen in the sky, and an earthquake in Bithynia toppled many buildings of the city of Nicaea
- Non-Christian Roman historian Phlegon reporting the darkness as an eclipse. Read it here: tertullian.org
>This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls...an eclipse of the sun
- Summary of the non-Christian Roman historian Thallus reporting the darkness as an eclipse. Read it here: newadvent.org
>In the same hour, too, the light of day was withdrawn, when the sun at the very time was in his noon blaze. Those who were not aware that this had been predicted about Christ thought it an eclipse. You yourselves have the account of this portent still in your archives.
- Tertullian telling us that this event was recorded in the Roman archives. This can be read here: ccel.org
But there were no eclipses at this time. Look at all the total eclipses in the world from 30-40 AD here: eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov
So it is impossible for this darkness to have been an eclipse. Not to mention eclipses don't cause and have no association with earthquakes.
>Education should be banned.
Willingness to pursue knowledge is what sets Christianity apart from the fake religions.
We can verify it with physical evidence as well: geological surveys in Israel turn up this earthquake. For instance, the paper at academia.edu
>t. I watched zeitgeist once and now I think I'm redpilled.
Dont worry though, I completely believed the """"documentary"""" the first time I saw it as well. ProTip: Read up on the various gods they compare to Christ for yourself and see how much they blatantly made up to make a comparison
Due to the prosperity of the west people had already forgot god.
What bothers me about christianity is all the non white christians. I want a religion that is explicitly white european
>...honest evangelism
Yeah! Our God sees all. When you were bad. He was there. When people were mean, he saw that. when kids get violated, you better bet he was there. thousands of kids get violated worldwide every day and our God doesn't turn a blind eye to a single one of them. he watches start to finish. doesn't turn away, even when it gets really icky and sad, our God is there catching every graphic detail. thousands of times every day. watching, technically from multiple angles and in HD. so, yeah, join our church and support this idea with your tithing and offering money! Jesus saves but we prefer cash.
>in the West
Iirc the Eastern Orthodox church stuck to its traditional values and didn't have this problem. Government propaganda destroyed western Christianity. The modern doctrine is such obvious bullshit to children it glows brighter than a CIAnigger.
And you will be responsible when your children end up in hell.
Well we could #1 try to make the church more traditional but also still staying somewhat modern #2 start trying to do more good thing to get the community on our side #3 try to infiltrate the school system and start teaching kids morals and trying to make kids less degenerate #4 also try to get into more music genres but don't make faggy music like the Christian pop today.
The byzantine and roman church need to unify and then excommunicate all the shit skins. Then the bible needs to be revised to take place in europe
so you can verify that an earthquake happened and that a religious leader wrote about it a story-line few decades later and formally published it just under 3 centuries later (over centuries after it happened). that does not prove divinity. that proves that a note was written and integrated into a story-line later on. that's called retroactive continuity, it does not prove divinity at all.
>gets 4 (You)s on a weak bait post
>stays in the thread
Is it your first time here? If people are having a thread about a topic you don't care for, don't enter that thread. Simple as that.
You can educate in a way that conforms to Christ's teachings. There's a reason why Christianity alone is responsible for bringing us out of the dark ages.
Yeah! our God is going to send your children straight to the Hell that he created 1700 years ago! if you think God will have pity on them because they are children then you are mistaken. he will not make Hell one degree cooler because they are kids. Take a look at the FBI uniform crime report and the stats of child molestation in the US. if God will watch that happen to that many kids living on earth, just imagine what he has in store for them after he kills them!
>Then the bible needs to be revised to take place in europe
Whitewashing the Bible will be easier than you think. Brown Jesus is a new invention. He was always depicted as white in Europe. Adding 2520 years (360*7) to the date an Israelite tribe goes into captivity results in the date a European nation was founded. Hungary 2520 years after the Egyptians took the Israelites into slavery and Poland 2520 years after Judah was taken into Babylon. Someone also did math and discovered Iceland is Benjamin, US is Manasseh, and England is Ephraim, etc. Just use the magic number and you get unique European names for each tribe.
>Take a look at the FBI uniform crime report and the stats of child molestation in the US
Child molestation was never a problem within the Catholic clergy until Vatican 2, when they started allowing "abstinent" faggots to become priests. the degeneracy you cite is a result of moving away from God, not because of belief in Him.
I didn't mention priests at all. or even a specific branch of Christianity. i was talking about omniscience in general.
The Church I go to is full of thousands of young people
What do the crime statistics for child molestation have to do with omniscience?
The efficiency I spoke of would also make more coherent.
And in the spirit of fairness, statically, Catholicism does not have a rate of offence that is above or below average of other denominations. it's not the people that i have a problem with it is the ideology which was not originally meant to be historically accurate but instead being manipulated to be presented as such by a completely different culture.
>which was not originally meant to be historically accurate but instead being manipulated to be presented as such by a completely different culture.
We actually have a level of agreement on this point. The problem, in my opinion, is that Christianity and its accompanying grounding in both Hebrew and Greek epistemology require a great deal of study to properly understand, and that most Christians lack this understanding (it's not a moral issue to not study, these people are not illegitimate Christians because of this) but they feel emboldened to argue about it anyway, because everyone has a voice now thanks to mass media.
to be fair, this might not be the case in Canada (i honestly do not know) but in America, if someone is an eyewitness to a child or vulnerable adult being sexually violated and they do not alert the authorities, it's a crime similar to aiding and abetting. Here, duty to report is considered a legal responsibility in most states. I did not consider that this might not be a crime in Canada and i apologize for any misunderstanding.
I think the best example i have ever come across for the literal interperitation thing in all of my research is the fact that on average if you ask 100 rabbis, "did the events in the Hebrew Bible (the old estimate but in it's original order), actually happen?" the answer you'll likely get 95% of the time is, "Did you learn from it? Did the story inspire you to act with empathy and morality? if not read it as if it happened and come back afterward."
The problem is your following a false god.
Stop your blaspheme and follow the real god the flying spaghetti monster
What're you even talking about? We saw two non-Christian Roman historians that report it. None of my sources were from the fourth century, they are all from the second-century.
And we know that these reports are accurate from the physical evidence, which verifies the earthquake and its dating.
ha. kudos for mentioning the Jews in a positive light. on Jow Forums.
oh, I get it now, you're...accusing God of breaking United States law?
Holy shit, I know that church!
You probably don't, memeflag.
Well his is a creep, has he herd of the sock on the doornob rule?
I am not disagreeing that an earthquake occurred. or that it occurred in that time and place. but for the sake of context, writing about an earthquake as part of a religious story that takes place at that time, does not prove the rest of the story. it proves that they integrated an event into a story after the fact. a fictional series was written that involves a train station that exists in real life. the fictional story was written after the station was built the train station is real but that doesn't make the rest of the fictional story real.
Destroy all religions. Get more public education in place.
Sure thing leaf, I'll see you on rake day
it's more of a culture thing. technically, God would be legally be considered a literary character and as such could not be prosecuted anyway.
Bunch of losers that need a crutch. Fuck religion!
Judaism is not a monolith. And for the most part, they are much more of a culture then just a religion. I studied a lot about the culture for a couple classes. Christianity was a subdivision of Judaism for almost 3 centuries. Quite frankly, if you compare Christianity to its Hebrew counterpart, Christianity basically removed a lot of the communal concepts that made the non literal, and almost chill, attitude work (well, chill once you get past the 613 mitzfas that is).
fuck off Darwinist tipper.
Public education is the problem. You want to replace the independence that man achieves when he recognizes that God is real with corrupt government controlled public 'education'. What kind of cuck is this?
Did you notice that Phlegon of Tralles reported that the "eclipse" (and remember that NASA's data shows that the darkness was not an eclipse) in Bithynia took place "at the sixth hour"?
This is the exact time that the Gospels report the darkness in Judea during the crucifixion. Mark 15:33 says that "the sixth hour having come, darkness came over the land until the ninth hour".
Would you really chalk it up to coincidence that this inexplicable darkness and an earthquake both just happened to take place at the single most religiously significant event in human history?
>Christianity basically removed a lot of the communal concepts that made the non literal, and almost chill, attitude work
They didn't remove them without replacing them. Those concepts were replaced by Greek concepts. The Greeks ruled the ancient world because they were incredibly advanced philosophers, and Christianity is the spiritual successor of that zeitgeist.
Being a casual laid-back culture is fine for a small insular community of money lenders who rely on surrounding society, but it doesn't work on its own.
i am not saying that it is a coincidence at all. i am saying that the publication of a story that incorporates historical events was a very common technique in Hebrew story telling culture at that time. (Christianity was a subdivision of Judaism for almost 3 centuries). the idea that they would write a story around significant events after the fact is not far fetched at all. it makes the story more interesting. for example, they have found the rubble of where a city wall once stood and have found salted earth in a location that resembles the story of Troy form the Greek religion. this suggests that the battle of troy might have been inspired by actual events. not that the god of the see actually killed a fortune teller at the shore who tried to warn the people of Troy not to let the giant wooden horse into the city. the battle may have actually happened, but the presence of divinity is not proven by this find especially sense the story, much like the gospels were published much after the fact.
It can't be put much better than this. The Greeks pursued foundational sciences and philosophies that concerned themselves with the truth alone. The late Romans completely corrupted the Greek ethos from the arts to the sciences with their obsession with sensationalism, debauchery, and hedonistic living. It was up to the Chrisitians to revive Greek concepts of pure and scientific arts and philosophy. The Christians reawakened the virtues of living for a cause greater than one's own carnal and material pleasures.
From ancient non-Christian sources, we know that Jesus was crucified during Pilate's governorship (like the first-century historian Tacitus reports in his Annals 15.44 for instance here: perseus.tufts.edu
Now Pilate was the governor of Judea from 26 AD - 36 AD, so it isn't like that's some long period of time. Do you really believe that his few years of governorship happened to both see a completely inexplicable darkness the likes of which has never been seen since while an earthquake simultaneously took place, and also the most religiously significant event in history, and that both were completely unrelated?
If you argue that the darkness and earthquake happened, and the crucifixion happened, but that both were unrelated and someone just stitched the two together, you're invoking a COLOSSAL coincidence.
religion is not politics SAGE
in terms of spirituality and culture, I agree on that. and as far as establishing a more ethical and moral culture or society in general, i agree that it is definitely necessary. The problem i find being very consistent is the idea of literal interpretation. If a system of morals or ethics is developed through empathy (which, psychologically occurs naturally in people regardless of faith/ideology) it leads to decision making that is more directly empathy driven. If someone makes their decisions based on being punished by an omnipotent being indefinitely, then they are not doing what they believe is right because they believe that it is right, they are doing it as a result technically of extortion. There was an interesting time between roughly 800 and 1100 in what is now Baghdad, it was a time and place before cultural separation was mandated. in this time, Christians, Muslims, Jewish people, Hindus non believers, etc. could and did work together to solve the problems they faced. mathematics, astronomy, architecture, medicine, the base 10 counting system all saw leaps and bounds in development because people were working together instead of trying to recruit each other or change each other's mind about who had the better spiritual idea. quite frankly, when i see how many hours are spent collectively on pews, mats, ect. the volume of creativity and mental capacity being cut short even stagnated for an idea that few can seem to agree on, let alone prove against all of the others, and how much more can be accomplished to help those in need because we are empathetic not because we are threatened. It gives me hope that someday people will do what is right because they would want others to do the same and not for a personal motive.
spread love to all and chase evil from the lands.
I know. I LOVE THIsssssssssssssssssssss
Father Lazarus was an Australian atheist philosophy professor whose politics were marxist in nature until his mother died of cancer. He dropped everything and went searching for truth and became a coptic monk in an egyptian monastery.
Its to late . He is comming back soon , hold on to that little faith you still have and just wait ....
is there a problem?
you still run into the problem with the story of Crucifixion not being documented until 20 years after Paul said it happened. and that it was not formally published until almost 3 centuries later. I am not saying that they did not occur. or that they did not occur at the same time. i am saying that the story was written around these events decades after they would've taken place. It's like fictional stories that take place during a major war that actually happened. a story line is written around real events to add to it. For example, the war in Vietnam actually happened, there were prisoners still in country after the war ended. the story of the fictional second rambo movie was written around this. that does not mean that the Vietnam war did not happen. it means that rambo was written around the historical event.
21 year old straight white male here (sorry). I want to go to church. I live on my own and will be working a lot less pretty soon, but I don't know how this shit works.
When I was a little kid my family went to a non denominational church for a few years.
I'm really interested in attending Latin mass. But don't understand Catholicism, really. I just read the Bible man.
>I'm really interested in attending Latin mass
Do it. It will really get you in touch with God.
To understand why its futile you just have to read the bible .... Its Jesus vs the pharisees but now its you vs the world but then without magic tricks , this is the reality , you can debate someone but they already made up their mind
The atheist today are lost forever he will probably not have the time
maybe try to find a Unitarian place in your area. there you'll get kind of a sampler of different ideas.
Where do you live bro??
Come to Trinity Baptist Church in Toronto or Vancouver. Its pretty much helms deep at this point.
Hey, I was in the same boat as you and went to Latin Mass (first time I went alone to church). Just sit in the back and don’t take communion until you’re baptized
Baptized and confirmed* I think
As a self aware autist do I have to talk to anyone or can I just listen and leave
Being saved is pre requisite to eating the Lords Supper.
My problem with Christianity...
> Not an European religion but a semitic religion.
> Hebrew Bible is the textual source of the Old Testament.
> Christianity is basically the result of a Jewish sect around the Jew Jesus.
> Spread by the Jewish Christian missioner Paulus in the Roman Empire.
> Christianity expelled Paganism in Europe.
> Religion of the losers and dreamers, see altruism, love of enemies. It results in naive humanism.
> Overall, too much pro Isreal and Judaism.
> What the hell has the Holy Land aka Isreal to do with Europe?
Atheist are also most likely Demons literally demons in the flesh , they cannot be saved trough having 1 good life , they need Christ to wash their sins from former lives , That is why 4 chan is full with egotistical demons thinking they are saved but are actually damned
>there are people on the internet who aren't boomers who believe this
big yikes
>We need to start doing honest evangelism again or we're going to get the society we deserve.
You can listen and leave.
You may have to say "hello" and shake someone's hand or some such to a greeter but that's all.
>you still run into the problem with the story of Crucifixion not being documented until 20 years after Paul said it happened
Even if that were true, why would that be a "problem"? We're almost 30 years from the Gulf War, if someone wrote a book about it now would you call it too late?
Plus, this isn't true, we have letters that discuss it that were written almost immediately afterwards. It is discussed in letters between the Roman Emperor Tiberius and the king of Osroene, Abgar. The Armenian historian Movses Khorenatsi transcribed letters between them from the official archives of Osroene, as can be read here: newadvent.org
One of Abgar's letters reports that “The Jews who dwell in the cantons of Palestine have crucified Jesus...During the time that they were crucifying Him, the sun was darkened, the earth was moved, shaken".
Tiberius Caesar died in 37 AD, so these letters were written before that.
>and that it was not formally published until almost 3 centuries later
What are you referring to here, exactly?
>I am not saying that they did not occur. or that they did not occur at the same time. i am saying that the story was written around these events decades after they would've taken place.
I'm not quite following. If a supernatural darkness with a simultaneous earthquake take place right as the man who says he is the Son of God is dying, is that not strong evidence for his claim?
>that does not mean that the Vietnam war did not happen. it means that rambo was written around the historical event.
Is your argument that the Gospels were meant as works of fiction? For all of their early history, everyone talks about the Gospels and the events in them as if they're literal, factual reports. Everyone from the disciples of the men who wrote the Gospels to their harshest ancient critics all discuss the works as if they are intended to be reporting factual events.
>maybe try to find a Unitarian place in your area. there you'll get kind of a sampler of different ideas.
Yeah, ideas from either the fags, bull dykes or the trannies.
you should throw yourself to say hello randomly to a random guy to help ease your social anxiety
Of course those ancient critics might accuse the authors of lying (like about what happened to the body) or heretical Christian groups might reject certain texts, but no one on any side ever says anything about mythologizing or that the text is allegorical. You never see someone like take the text and say “this is just an allegory, what it really means is…”. (To clarify, I don’t mean the Gospels don’t report people making use of allegories, like Jesus’ parables. I mean this in the sense that the Gospels are reporting that Jesus genuinely did say those things)
And that’s not for a lack of people doing that sort of thing with other texts. The first-century Jewish writer Philo for example does this incessantly with the Old Testament. Like for instance in his work Allegorical Interpretation I (which can be read here: earlyjewishwritings.com
So if this was how the texts were written or being interpreted, people wouldn’t have been shy about saying so.
life.church
But, you are just imagining a case whereby one follows religion merely to avoid punishment in the after-life. Is it also so hard for you to imagine that, in other cases, people attend to religious matters for their own spiritual well-being or maybe because it helps them come to grips with an incommensurable universe? And why do you subsume that religion does not play a part in the mathematical, architectural, medicinal, and astronomical questions of those time periods? Architectural, mathematical, and music/arts prove themselves time and time again to have been connected with a search for the divine. You think you are apart from the religious quarrels, but if Michael E Jones is correct, you atheists are merely practising your own form of loosely disguised paganism that factors heavily on newtonian and darwinian characterizations of forces and meanings in the universe.
Also, maybe these separate religious groups were working together under the pretence of athesitical scientific work, but the era of 800 and 1100 are filled with and book-ended with Muslim conquest wars and a hatred for byzantian/european Christianity.
mods confirmed for jewish faggots.
Lol its all over for you
That's so fucking gay. The topic of religious belief is the crux of Jow Forums ethos.
I should be so lucky.
This weekend we had a kjv thread ,first the thread got moved to /his/ then it got deleted in /his/
Its over the jews won
Extremely gay
Guess we'll have to go a step further and make them Theocracy General or something
Good riddance to a dangerous cultural cancer.
why?
>Its over the jews won
you know they won't win in the end, user.
Keep the faith.
At least it did not get deleted , or maybe Jow Forums is more insulting
Yeah, Le Jow Forums board. It is insulting.
so is it jews or fedoras?
It's a relic of a time when emperors and feudal kings needed an ideology that would keep the masses meek and submissive on pain of eternal damnation. It belongs in the trash.
>you know they won't win in the end, user.
Debate able , statistically there are going to be more Jews in heaven then Christians
religion according to the shill mods isn't political it just only shaped all our politics for 1000s of years but of all places bantz? proper shameful who ever decided to do that.
>Jews
>going to Heaven
I think you mean Hebrews. Modern Jews have departed so far from the Torah that they have no legitimate claim to be children of Abraham.
Talmudic Judaism is not discussed in a positive light in the Bible.
What do you suggest as a substitute for our spiritual and rational guidance in this world? Maybe read some cool nietzsche, eh?
Yes hebrews, but there is a good chance that God kept his chosen blood line just to pester us , read romans 11 1000 times . it took me a while to figure it out , but (((they))) are our enemies , how can that not be jews ?
>28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
>Maybe read some cool nietzsche, eh?
Read lots of things. Then talk with other people who have read lots of things. Kill your heroes. In particular, kill your saviors.