Alright let's settle it

>IRC over XMPP

Why does Jow Forums hate Signal now

>IRC over a bloated piece of shit protocol
yes

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Telegram

Shills

Signal us obviously the best thing we have currently. Looking forward how GNU Ring takes off.

>Signal us obviously the best thing we have currently
Requires phone number, access to camera for voice calls and access to contacts if you want to have more than a number for a contact.
Wire is better in all those regards.

Wire:
>the good:
Messages are encrypted by Proteus, a protocol developed independently by Wire Swiss but based on Signal.

>the bad:
But – there is a trade-off. Motherboard security reporter Joseph Cox points out that Wire does store a record of people you've contacted through the app, and in plain text. Wire Swiss says that this is to make cross-device synchronisation easier. Wire confirmed to Motherboard that connections, emails, phone numbers and usernames are stored while an account is active, but are nixed when the account is deleted.

Just use signal.

>emails, phone numbers
Can I get a citation for that?

All the account info I have on my device about other people is the nickname.

Dw all centralized chats use that, I honestly would say after reading even more after my post - that both signal and wire and good choices, except that with Wire you gamble on having a heavily altered encryption methodology.

Good choices none-the-less, use both, Signal for voice calls, Wire for nickname based ephemeral conversations, where you constantly delete and create accounts.

Facebook Messenger
>Doesn't require a phone number
>Works seamlessly on PC and mobile
>Large userbase
>Doesn't lie to you and pretend to respect your privacy like other communication platforms

The point is wire needs neither my contacts nor access to camera.
Signal pretty much useless without contacts and can not even place a call unless I allow it to access my camera.
This, coupled with registration by phone makes it an instant no go.

Therefore I really want to see a citation about wire storing email and phone numbers of every contact unencrypted.
This sounds highly implausible.

Try to google what I wrote, I don't have history in browser.

neither, they all rely on a server backend which makes them not trust worthy. and encrypting messages in a potentially compromised communication protocol doesn't make things more secure, it just makes you more stupid and gullible

Found this, will do it.

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Telegram's privacy so good the Russian government tried to ban it FYI. also they've offered like 300k burgerdollars to whoever breaks their encryption protocol. hasn't been claimed yet

use ring, it's stable, it's foss, supports both video and audio and it's decentralized

not to mention, it's an official gnu project

I just use the text messaging app that came default on my phone like a non-sperglord

Riot isnt encrypted by default and its privacy policy allows them to share data with law enforcement and third parties. Not having the data in the first place would certainly help.

From

Will have to dig more, read their website, documentation and eventually mail them to ask for clarification.

>Wire does store a record of people you've contacted through the app
You can use timed messages so they will be deleted after desired time span.

I have no idea what any of those things are.
Is this what it's like to become old?

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Discord senpai

>Telegram's privacy so good the Russian government tried to ban it
Except it never did.
Telegram was working this entire time with no problems in Russia.
Only thing that changed is how many people know about it.

never said it stopped working mate
>they tried

riot is garbage, threema is garbage, skype is garbage, google talk is garbage, imessage is garbage, telegram is garbage, signal is garbage.

use tox or ring, those are the only decent solutions. or setup your own jabber server and tell people to use off-the-record (tried that for about 5 years, never was successful)

>they tried
Any proofs that they actually tried to block telegram and not just make a beautiful PR move and test new firewall in the meantime?

I'd like to also remind you that it has a closed server and no e2ee unless you are using "private" chat feature.

>use tox or ring,
No sane person would go through such hoops to use messenger.
There is no possibility for widespread adoption.

I'd say that Wire is the most private (no need for the phone number or anything like that) and easy for regular people to use.

Whatever gets the job done, no point in using an app to talk to imaginary friends

>Facebook Messenger
>>Doesn't require a phone number
umm sweetie, it needs a facebook account which will inevitably ask for your phone to check if you're a bot (non-profitable) or a human (profitable)

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this, i want to join

I mean don't get me wrong it might derive your phone number through viewing your friends' contacts or if you use it on your main phone or whatever, and it asks me for my phone number once every six months, but I just never fill it out. It's not a requirement for logging in. To be honest, if I could get away with it, I would not have a phone number.

Upgoat

Facebook literally required my passport to let me log in again.

Reported

Wtf? Did they give you any reason? Were you doing anything especially bot-like? I've never been asked anything like that. I actually like Facebook better than phones because it's substantially better at stopping spammers from contacting me.

>Any proofs that they actually tried to block telegram?
yes
theverge.com/2018/4/17/17246150/telegram-russia-ban
> "the ban didn’t commence until Monday, when the various local ISPs started blocking Telegram through the clumsy method of, um,blocking 15.8 million IPs on Amazon and Google’s cloud platforms. Telegram routes traffic through those US cloud services to circumvent Russian state interference"

Conversations (XMPP)

I had an FB account but I never was able to log in again without putting in my phone number
Also this, they require your passport if you dare to not use your real name and they find out

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Shit man is that what Terry really used to look like?

>Wtf? Did they give you any reason?
To check my identity.
Also, they said I used fake name, even though I had the exact same one in the documents.
So I had to "correct" it from "XYZW" to the exact same "XYZW" or they wouldn't let me log in or even delete the account.

Didn't do anything in particular, wasn't even using it for the most part, as I needed it only for the university.

There is no proof on that page that it was to actually block telegram and not just to make it world famous while testing the new China-like firewall.

Riot / Matrix. People are going to use it, try as you deny all the institutional support and sponsorship the group has. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't going to be relevant.

>People are going to use it
lol

>phone number
that's s good thing

matrix.org/blog/2018/01/29/status-partners-up-with-new-vector-fueling-decentralised-comms-and-the-matrix-ecosystem/
matrix.org/blog/2018/04/26/matrix-and-riot-confirmed-as-the-basis-for-frances-secure-instant-messenger-app/

Denial is the only reason this thread exists.

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>matrix.org
What a great unbiased source for the success of matrix!

what exactly do you do that would be such a "hoop" you create a fucking account like everywhere else and done. stop being retarded

I would like to use matrix, but riot is the only client on android and it's on a beta stage. It's laggy and it isn't simple as the other IM apps, so it's more difficult to convince friends to use it.

>Good thing
Not if mandatory.
In wire when you start the app it asks for the phone number.
But if you want, you can register with email address on their web page and login with that.

1. You have to create an account instead of just inserting your number
2. You have to figure out how to add people

They're both partnership announcements user, though both of these were reported pretty heavily across other sources. I didn't even mention the fact the Librem 5 is shipping out with [matrix] as the default messenger either.

puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

Tox is funky, it's dodgy on mobile, has no solution for receiving offline messages beyond "leave your client on and if it sees your recipient online, send it", requires a new address and identity for every device, and is incapable of persisting group chats.

A new hero has arrived.

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> There is no proof on that page that it was to actually block telegram and not just to make it world famous
sorry, here's a better link
reuters.com/article/us-russia-telegram/russia-files-lawsuit-to-block-telegram-messaging-app-idUSKCN1HD143

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but all I see is
1. Bogus order was given that has not been enforced
2. Telegram sold a lot of currency on the hype wave

XMPP was a mistake.

creating an account is complicated? are you fucking retarded? everyone has accounts for all kinds of shit and they add people in whatever fucking service all the time. what kind of retarded excuse is that?

>creating an account is complicated?
Compared to convenience of having your phone number entered and authenticated automatically?
Yes.

Also, manually adding contacts is bullshit for the same reason, when popular Messengers just inform you when your contact has registered or just show if they are part of the service.

You can't just take convenience away and expect people to accept that.

>Compared to convenience of having your phone number entered and authenticated automatically?
you have to interact with your application either way, adding a phone number is equivalent to creating an account but whatever. people deserve to get fucked over by the government and corporations, if all they want is to be spoonfed.

>you have to interact with your application either way
Let's see.
Option 1:
>Open app
>Enter your phone number
>Get SMS
>You can instantly chat with all your contacts that use the service
Option 2:
>Open app
>Think of a login
>Think of a password
>Enter your email address
>Make sure not to forget this shit
>Get an email and authenticate
>Figure out who uses the service
>Send your nickname to them through some other means
>Expect them to do the same

Guess which one would be more popular on device where literally every user already has a phone number and numbers of all friends/contacts.

you don't have to add an email with ring. you don't even need an alias, you just need a password and that's it. you add people by scanning their qr code or pressing the link which opens an intent to open it with ring.

WhatsApp as long as all my friends still use it, then I hope Signal, looks like Telegram is also a contender. Messaging apps are for messaging people, not to open them and then stare at empty screens.

>you add people by scanning their qr code or pressing the link which opens an intent to open it with ring.
That's terrible.
Well, link is kinda ok.

>you don't even need an alias, you just need a password and that's it.
How would you authenticate with only a password?

>That's terrible.
how's that terrible? sure nfc might be more convenient but it has a built in qr scanner and it has your qr code generated as menu item.

>How would you authenticate with only a password?
a unique id is generated during the setup, that itself is used as "user id" instead of an account name. the account is bound to a device though

you can export the account info, so you can securely transfer it to a different device.

>how's that terrible?
QR requires you to be near the person you want to contact.

>a unique id is generated during the setup, that itself is used as "user id" instead of an account name. the account is bound to a device though
Yeah, pic related.
I had an account on my phone.
I wiped the memory and am now locked out of my account.
Great messenger!

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>QR requires you to be near the person you want to contact.
yes, it is an option for people that you actually know to contact you by just scanning the code. it's like a gpg key party if you ever heard of that before. for everything else you can use the ring-id as link

rtfm, also accounts have an expiration date of 60 days by default. witjh every other secure messenger you have to do something before you wipe your phone or emergency wipe it. if signal or threema or whateverthefuck would just willy nilly accept your phone number as only authentication mechanism, you have a huge security issue. stop being retarded

Signal

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>yes, it is an option for people that you actually know to contact you by just scanning the code
I "actually know" everyone in my contact list.
Having them to scan my QR would be next to impossible.
>Link
As I said, that's relatively OK, though you still not external communication methods, while something like WhatsApp doesn't require anything like that. All your contacts that use the service are instantly available.

>rtfm
Yeah sure, expect casual users to read mans. Especially hosted on external resources. I already see the stellar popularity of this messenger in the future.
>also accounts have an expiration date of 60 days by default.
Hahaha. Wonderful.
>witjh every other secure messenger you have to do something before you wipe your phone or emergency wipe it.
Nope. Only if you have no sync on and want to preserve all the data and conversations.

>if signal or threema or whateverthefuck would just willy nilly accept your phone number as only authentication mechanism, you have a huge security issue. stop being retarded
What security issue?
In miss you enter your number and get SMS with the confirmation code. Enter it and you have your device added.
Wire may use standard email+password or/and the phone method mentioned above.

You can't just get locked out of the app forever if you simply delete it or in any way lose access to it.

That's just very stupid design that will never get any real popularity.

>Having them to scan my QR would be next to impossible.
yeah because you talk to 100 people on a weekly basis via private messages or phone number.

>>also accounts have an expiration date of 60 days by default.
>Hahaha. Wonderful.
it is, for accounts that aren't used, an expiration date of 2 months is completely fine.

>What security issue?
the security issue that you could spoof phone numbers to intercept communication, etc which is pretty simple these days. or cases where someone changes the phone number that is not associate to the account.

>rtfm
>>Yeah sure, expect casual users to read mans. Especially hosted on external resources. I already see the stellar popularity of this messenger in the future.
then don't use technology, simple as that.

security never is about convenience. people who believe that these two somehow relate to another, doesn't understand jack shit about security. everything else is just make believe. why do you think there is no alternative for gpg, because it's the best security since over 20 years

>yeah because you talk to 100 people on a weekly basis via private messages or phone number.
How does this have anything to do with the fact that it's extremely inconvenient to be in the same room with the person I want to _remotely_ communicate with?
Oh, right, convenience is not something that was taken into account when developing "Ring", right.
>it is, for accounts that aren't used, an expiration date of 2 months is completely fine.
How so?
It is yet another way to lose all data.
>the security issue that you could spoof phone numbers to intercept communication, etc which is pretty simple these days.
Do that. You can gain a lot of valuable information that way. May even get in the newspapers.
>or cases where someone changes the phone number that is not associate to the account.
So? Your conversations will not appear on their device and once you get rid of your number, other person gets it anyway.
It's literally the same as with regular phones or SMS, which every owner of the cellular phone uses.
>then don't use technology, simple as that.
And that's exactly my point.
It's a messenger that is doomed to die in obscurity.
And if the messenger can not be used for communications (except with a handful of people, just like all the XMPP bullshit), then it's pretty much useless, as pointed out: "Messaging apps are for messaging people, not to open them and then stare at empty screens.".

>security never is about convenience.
Yet they are not mutually exclusive.
Wire is both secure and very convenient.
Ring is just some bullshit made by people who probably think emacs is convenient.
>people who believe that these two somehow relate to another, doesn't understand jack shit about security.
If you want maximum security you don't use any Messengers in the first place, don't you?
>why do you think there is no alternative for gpg, because it's the best security since over 20 years
First of all, alternative to "PGP".
Secondly, even gpg has two barely compatible implementations.
Thirdly, because there is yet no need for something entirely different, while current variant is relatively widespread and secure for the purposes it's used for.

Never used Wire, but these criterias alone make it look like the best option.

^ what he said, basically

>Yet they are not mutually exclusive.
they are. things that are simple are convenient, security is not simple. it requires you to understand a set procedure that needs to be followed in order to establish security. that is not convenient. convenient is when i can go to a store and buy dakimakuras and tendies at the same store.
>If you want maximum security you don't use any Messengers in the first place, don't you?
if i want world peace i better become the next president of the united states, russia or china. seriously, fuck you
>Thirdly, because there is yet no need for something entirely different, while current variant is relatively widespread and secure for the purposes it's used for.
nobody uses pgp or gpg for communication purpose because of its inconvenience for tech plebs.

this

> Bogus order was given that has not been enforced
but it was, as russia started blocking a bunch of google and amazon ips that telegram uses. what do you think that may 1st was for?
> Telegram sold a lot of currency on the hype wave
source? if you are talking about the ICO, that's not publicly funded anymore, they changed that not long ago

Briar

Kill yourself

>but it was, as russia started blocking a bunch of google and amazon ips that telegram uses. what do you think that may 1st was for?
That's why I suspect that they simply tested the firewall they are talking about implementing.
May 1st was just an action against blockings.
Still, there was not a single day when telegram didn't work.

I just really think all this is very fishy.

>source? if you are talking about the ICO, that's not publicly funded anymore, they changed that not long ago
Didn't know that, thanks.

I like these things but signal is still good because it helps normies

>muh anarchy

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>signal is still good because it helps normies
Default option for wire is mobile number registration.

It's not harder than signal.

Y

Signal lets u skip adding a ph number also? So where does wire come out ahead that makes further fragmenting us helpful?

>Signal lets u skip adding a ph number also
Does it?

irc+gnupg

Wire.
Signal did some weird shit and broke texting to people with iphones.

Wire is basically Discord minus custom emote retardation, so it's really easy to get normie friends on it.

Yes

What? If you're not retarded then you can just sign up with an email, or if you're a normie you just use a phone number. How is that "fragmenting us further"?

>Yes
Wow.
I want to register there with email only.
How do I do that?

Signal for the robust security and zero-access

Telegram for conviency and more flexibility, use secret chats to have e2e encryption
At least the option is there, and despite telegram have written their own crypto, it is still a solid option

I haven't tried Wire yet, so I'll have to trust what this user says