The current state of the internet

Since you follow some people on YT, how do you feel about the youtube celeb/twitch culture where its content for money, instead of content for the sake of it? I feel like almost everyone is disengenious or trying to make a buck off of me. I see a lot of content recycling. The only person on YT I really like is James Rolfe, since he has a lot of stories from memory and interesting insights without any of the obnoxious modern internet culture.

I feel like thats just about everywhere though. Even if I stay off the internet for awhile and shut off my phone, social media is in the local news papers, in the crowds I walk through, the restaurants or grocery stores. I cant really be away from it all short of becoming a monk.

I dont think simply blocking ads has been enough for us. Like I said I dont want to wait 10 years, and we're beyond that now. I was blocking ads in 2007, and all thats really changed is their methods of entry.
Thats why this gdpr thing has me excited, is it elicited a fast response because company profits were threatened in a big away all at once. It would honestly be a lot easier if ad companies blocked us from their sites if we didnt allow their content. It would be like browsing a pruned version of the net with a lot of bullshit removed.

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>Since you follow some people on YT, how do you feel about the youtube celeb/twitch culture where its content for money, instead of content for the sake of it?
I only watch minor tubers who have small subs and usually run on no adverts and maybe odd donations. I agree the big channels are garbage for selling trash to idiots but that's how the herd works. Doesn't matter how the world is setup, most people are cattle and act like it.

Most of the IRC rooms i've visited are usually just linking popular social media posts, but I could never stay anywhere long enough to be part of a good community, so maybe im in the wrong channels. I don't see much human discussion anymore outside of whats online, never any oc about someone's life or stories like I used to.
Fun story, when I first moved here as a teenager, my mother's boyfriend had an old computer he had inherited from his military son. That was how I discovered IRC, when I found tons of logs of him trying to sext with various women online. Lots of organic lewd conversations to read through, sadly it all died with that computer.

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Is this from Pokemon?

I agree with you, though technically there isn't much stopping you and I as individuals from not sharing those things. I caved and used facebook for awhile after highschool when all of my friends were doing it. But now that all of those friends have moved on in life, ive since deleted most of my online presence and try to keep everything as fake as ive always been. I think the problem is the lack of filter for the kinds of people who do the things you described.

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i get nostalgic about the really early days before pervasive advertising when the sites i would visit were passion projects without the profit motive that drives the internet today.

but i also recognize that the internet and content we have today is objectively better than back then

I remember one time I tried to be a twitchfag for a bit. I set up a donation page and all of that bullshit. I later remembered how much I hate that culture and the people who make money doing it, and purged everything. I dont think ill ever make content for money in the current way, its wretched.

Part of me wonders if it is websites like Google, where maybe they just are not showing me interesting things. You can kind of see it when it autocorrects during your search, it always guides you towards phrases that will generate ad revenue. It really does not sound all that surprising, until you realize how deep it permeates. I also have trouble finding really anything interesting, sometimes I resort to sites like hackaday just to see something new and interesting. I've tried alternate search engines, but have not really been able to sustain their use, because Google truly does find things that I need, but does not let me explore.

Old_fashioned monetization still works for niche content. I've got a couple websites based around my day job (tradie) that bring in 20k/yr or so after expenses. It's not enough to live on alone but I don't spend much time on them other than maintenencea and light modding.

In some ways it is, in some ways its not. There was a thread about japanese websites the other day that had a pretty good example. Visit the jp version and english versions of 'Rakuen'. The JP version has hyperlinks that fan out to more sections right off the sidebar, and uses predominately text instead of images and buttons. Meanwhile the english version has giant banner ads and a scrollbar to view 5 items at a time. Most american sites follow that example.

As far as passion projects and the days of angelfire and geocities, I will inform you theres a somewhat revival in the form of 'Neocities.com' that carries a bit of that old feel. I made a site just to keep track of and document some games I was interested in, but storage for images is very limited if you dont sink some money into it, so I'll have to delete old stuff eventually.

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I've considered this too, I don't have any evidence mind you, but I always feel like what im seeing is a small part of what I used to see. I remember digging through google searches for hours finding all sorts of hole in the wall sites, but now I get social media infested website #46 right off the factory line. They all look and behave the same, and are filled with the same people. I used to use stumbleupon to try and find new or weird things. I dont know if they keep their site database from their origin, but they were around when exploration on google was still possible.

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No and I think the internet should be destroyed

If you want to see pure cancer, just use google news. It is especially noticeable on the phone where it tries to expand and control your interests in the "spotlight" section. There will always be three choices, sometimes the subject changes, but most of the time one is experimental, one tries to appeal to your political leaning, the other is related to your interests.

Lovely, I just love being manipulated. Im surprised there arent many anti bullshit services, or a curated internet search that omits garbage and business loaded sites.

I want our sekrit club back lads.

Typically when you bring up the internet being more enjoyable back in the day, you get barraged by a ton of people calling you a nostalgiafag, but...

I think there's really no denying that it was a much more lighthearted, fanciful place back then. It just took itself so much less seriously. Jow Forums is a great example--the Jow Forums of the mid 2000s up until about 2008-09 or so was a really goofy place that the average modern Jow Forums user would probably cringe at. Hell, even the Jow Forums of 2010-2013/14 is probably something the modern Jow Forums user would find too "reddit".

I want to impregnate Hex Maniac!

Blame apple for making iphone as a status symbol like watches, the brought the normie into hardcore tech world to be slaves instead now it works the other way round.

It is not inaccurate to say that the creation of the Internet, in itself, created a new world, a new realm of being. With it came all the parts of humanity that are normally kept in check by unconscious bioprograms, free to express themselves without the identity playing a role. In the nascent era of this seemingly chimerical creation, this was most prevalent.

In the modern era, this idea of limitless expression has been turned on it's head and essentially decapitated. The Internet as it once was, it was intended to be, no longer exists. We can only reset this twisted game, start over from zero, and entrust the future to the budding meshnets that surround us.

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You dirty fat assed slut.

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All good things must come to an end.

It was nice while it lasted. Now it's just a platform for selling stuff and harvesting personal data for Brave New World type big data shiit. It's censored and monitored, and you can't even take for granted that the basement dwelling retard you're arguing with isn't actually a low ranking member of the Ministry of Propaganda of some third world country.

A whole generation of kids have never known a world before the botnet, or what life was like when you had to go to places 9AM-2PM on a weekday to get things done, before everyone had a pocket computer/NSA sensor platform in their pants.

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>sample

Why not move to a new internet?

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Haha, jokes on you, I live on roughly 15k a year, though thats in CAD. I'm fortunate enough to have someone to split the bills with though.

I dream of a world where I can remotely open video through file on synthetic filesystem

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>muh sekrit club!
I wonder if that meme was made by the new arrivals who weren't around to experience it while there was less of us, and things were good. I see it brought up almost every time I mention old times, and obviously we're oversaturated with normies these days.

As far as the old chan goes, everyone now pokes fun at motivational posters, chatspeak, talks about how we were all just kids then, so thats the only way we enjoyed it. What they're forgetting is that we were living in a time when all of that stuff was first coming into existence. Early Jow Forums pretty much invented the modern day memes, and the same templates are still used today, albeit in really shitty ways.

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Meant to reply to both of you, whoops.

I'd say its more smartphones in general. Using the internet on a cellphone was an abombinable chore in the late 90s/early 2000. I remember trying to navigate on that tiny screen with limited buttons, scrolling was the biggest hassle and websites werent really built for mobile. Also everyone was scared shitless of getting data charges since most phone companies were charging "10 cents per kilobyte". Phone companies and normalizing mobile data costs were definitely a deciding factor.

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Instead of complaining if everyone adopt tor, start running internal relays to make it fast and start porting all the sites that mattered we could tear open a new net 3.0 frontier RIGHT NOW

The problem with the internet are adverts. No matter what website you visit, you're tracked, counted, and advertised to in an attempt for some greedy Jew-led corporation to try and sell you shit you don't need. Companies focus more on trying to thwart adblockers and improve their advertisement delivery systems than they do on the service that makes them unique.

I avoid “journalist” websites like the plague, because they’re the worst of the bunch. The minute my IP pings their servers, it’s almost like I can feel a wave of bloatware rushing through the tubes and into my computer. My fans spin as if it were the cries of the first witness to the rapidly approaching catastrophe.

Yes, google gain power and changed drammaticaly. It was good engine with a lot of utility, but now I actually noticed some requent fails in searching. Especially while trying to guess some non-popular things

Internet for pedos and degenerates.

the iPhone ruined the internet

>everyone is on a few social media sites
>even if you have a personal website you still need to be on social media for outreach
>everyone says predictable things about everything like they are part of a hivemind
>sites link to 10 different domains to pull in fucktons of javascript
>because you haven't allowed all javascript the website is either blank or consumes an ungodly amount of cpu stuck in an infinite loop
>the mobile version of the site is better than the actual site
>sites use your cpu to mine buttcoin
>comment sections are full of brazilians, retards and spambots
>actual functionality is hidden away under 10 menus or in about:config
>nearly all software is terrible and slow
>your browser uses more and more memory with every update despite doing nothing more
>everything that is presented to you on certain sites is tailored to get you to engage as much as possible from previous datamining of your activity
>all sites are plugged into the botnet and analyzes your interaction with everything to build a hidden profile on you

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A half of what you mentioned is fixed by gdpr. It's only a matter of time now.

If I could, I would introduce leglislation that forces ISPs to block websites that don't give users the option to avoid adverts. Fuck adverts; fuck advertisers; fuck this Jewishness.

I dont think there's anything stopping us from curating the internet and omitting the big or crap sites. I would gladly visit a hub or search engine that omits all the modern clickbait in the searches, even if theyre relevant to the search term like when looking for a tech solution.

The previous generation of computer scientists probably could have came up with a solution by now, though I'm guessing most of them are either bought and paid for, or too old and tired to care anymore. That's not to say the solution can't be made here and now within our current generation, there just isn't as much demand as we've all grown complacent.

The way I see it there are two possible routes (that I can imagine right now, possibilities are infinite)
>We create a subnet by curating sites based on certain parameters, or multiple subnets which makes it harder to infiltrate or destroy. Alternatively we create a search engine or filter with some brilliant rules in place.

Or option 2
>we continue waging war with the corporations who have more invested in this than we do. We work out more efficient, and importantly, fast methods of killing their profits or herding them into a space that keeps them from contaminating our parts of the net. Adnauseum seemed like a cool idea, but I havent heard much about it lately.

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There have been some attempts to create a new internet, some Jow Forums users made small mesh networks. Though the whole concept of the internet and why it comes together so easily, is that everyone is supposed to use it. The only way to make an efficient new network is advancements in long range links, or finding a way to use the existing network as jumps to your destination without incorporating their content into your new internet.

You must have been at that thread where I was comparing Rakuten huh?

There are certain challenges to tor though. First and foremost the bad reputation that comes with it, and regular users having to deal with police knocking on their door and telling them "yeah that wasnt me, I just use Tor" . I'm not saying you're wrong, but we could just as easily curate sites without using Tor. It just wouldnt be anonymous.

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>this idea of limitless expression has been turned on it's head and essentially decapitated.
Because social media seems to make everybody believe that they aught to be listened to. It's one thing to believe in the fact they everybody should be able to express itself, it's another to force everyone to listen.

That's not curating the internet. It's just playing the same game but the other way.
The internet is about organic growth imo, it's a net. Not a central search engine or front website that acts as a gateway for the content of the internet.

I want to marry hex manic!

avatarfagging is a bannable offense.

Call me a sheep, but I found some hope in Elon's new venture to make a service that rates media outlets. Last I saw he bought the domain, if it ends up happening it would be amusing to see those same journalist sites kick their feet in protest. Adblockers seem to do a fine enough job blocking ads and banners, but you need noscript to get rid of background scripts which often breaks a site. I think the next step would be to either incorporate a catch all script that simulates what a website needs without breaking it, or sends their scripts junk data instead. Even if we had to reassemble every major site and keep up with their updates, it would still be workable since there arent many of them. I could see normalfags adopting this and costing them money that way.

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Both options seem like a good start, but there's a very good chance that the people behind it will eventually be persecuted by the media and even the government. If you start making large dents in the profits of media giants, they will fight back. It wouldn't be surprising for one to be branded a cyber terrorist for doing so. The normies will be on the side that owns the shit they use every day, because who the hell wants to do the right thing, especially when it means abandoning the convenient services everyone holds dear.

One's best bet is beating them at their own game. You're going against people who have money though, and they don't have to jump over any principles or moral obstacles either.

probably not, I don't even know what Rakuten is

>thats not curating the internet
At this stage it might be a beneficial interim solution that would give us more than we have. At the moment google and co are curating all content for us, and giving us the illusion of freedom.

This is a Hex dump in a discussion thread

That's why I favor the idea of making our own hubs of curated sites. Think of the old search engines hubs in their infancy like yahoo, altavista, excite etc. They had links to their preferred news, entertainment and what have you. I suspect the people using alternative hubs would be a minority in the large population, which allows us to go under the radar if normalfags arent mass adopting it. Right now there is no alternative.

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I think the only bad part is that freedom of speech is limited and people take things said on the internet too seriously
Otherwise it's become far more accessible and there's more shit to do, so you can't really complain about that

I love hex maniac!

This comes up a lot lately, major normalfag outlets like facebook, twitter etc crack down on people saying anything out of line, because it makes them uncomfortable, and those sites are trying to protect their profits. If word gets out that they as a company don't care about, or police racism, then they lose money. Meanwhile here you can say largely whatever you want. Doxxing people was more prevalent here than anywhere else years ago, thats probably the only thing they really police here, because again, they need to protect their profits, and Jow Forums is very much a business now instead of some basement dweller's college experiment.

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>I suspect the people using alternative hubs would be a minority in the large population, which allows us to go under the radar if normalfags arent mass adopting it.
In the end pic would happen one way or another

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I hate this image so much, grow the fuck up.

if you hate americans that much just browse non-english websites or maybe not go on a website that's mostly americans and hosted in the US. Eurochans are a still thing if you're german or finnish.

It's kind of ridiculous that no one on Jow Forums can see this, but the degradation of anything genuine about the internet is a direct result of Capitalism getting a hold of it. As soon as companies saw the true potential of the internet, coupled with smart phones accelerating everything 10 fold, things became more and more centralized, streamlined, curated towards the interests of what will make money. This is just what Capitalism does to things - it destroys communities and makes everything the same, because there's only one way to make the most profit and so that's what the owners of sites do.

Don't believe me? Look at how the internet is being introduced to the third world, when corporations already have a strangle hold on it. For most people out there, Facebook literally /is/ the internet. That's it. We got incredibly lucky that things managed to take off in a more organic way first, meaning Capitalism had to adapt to something that already existed, but when we look at what it does when it's allowed to do things from the ground up it's pure evil compared to what we have today.

You fucks need to learn some basic philosophy and critical theory if you ever want to understand why this type of shit happens. Frustrates the shit out of me to see you all recognize these problems and then never put two and two together to find a root cause (or when you do it's fucks like this guy )

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I don't really care is the issue, why worry about something that we can't change? Surely whining on an anonymous anime imageboard will overthrow capitalism.
I have my privacy and open sores autismbox I use for work and to watch pirated media, i'm fine.

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>I don't really care is the issue
then why are you here? Fuck off.

Jow Forums is not about philosophy or critical theory, go to /lit/ or /his/ if you want to talk about economics.

>You fucks need to learn some basic philosophy and critical theory if you ever want to understand why this type of shit happens.

you're a faggot retard

Been on the internet since 1992. 1989 if you count logging into my public library's card catalog on my apple classic and 2400 baud modem.

The absolute worst change is that users willingly give up their anonymity and then complain about the repercussions of doing so. The powers that be will convince people that the only way to fix this is to have safe spaces or force everyone to give up their anonymity, instead of teaching users the ramifications of operating in the clear on the internet.

Read: who bullies the bullies by thelastpsychiatrist

thelastpsychiatrist.com/2014/05/cyberbll.html

>Jow Forums is very much a business now instead of some basement dweller's college experiment
And this is a big problem, in my opinion. There is always so much to lose. The hubs seem very interesting, but would need solid, hard rules that they will be based upon. Otherwise they will be unable to follow their vision in the long term, because they face many dangers, such as: money and how to obtain it as well as things revolving hosting and other fees (and this is assuming you aren't looking to profit at all); people losing said vision or succumbing to pressure (from peers or otherwise), laws changing, infiltration of all kinds (like said)... This is just the beginning. I think about such things plenty, and perhaps it's merely my negativity, but it is difficult for me to imagine "good" things like this working well.

For what it's worth I mostly agree with what you said, but you're going to get a lot of negative comments.

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Heres a thought, what if the people of Jow Forums would make a website that kind of functioned like a small little island on the internet.
User makes an account, gets an email/jabber login to share with people that visit on their website (so they can talk to eachother) and get a folder in the www folder on the server.
No php or SQL databases, HTML and Css and maybe some javascript since that's clientside and wont bog down the server.
Maybe add an IRC server as well to it with rooms regarding major interests.
We don't have to use the internet with facebook and all the other bullshit, just make our own little island away from it all.

Lots of good discussion here.

The real crux of it though is not just that normies came onto the Internet (existing nerds always hated "Eternal September" when new users would appear unaware of the rules so to speak, going back even before the WWW) but rather that the Internet changed to FIT normies, instead of them being encouraged to abide by our rules/culture.

However, the real deathblow was the merging of meatspace and Internet identity. Even when I was a kid, the rule was "don't trust anyone on the Internet and don't tell them any of your meatspace personal information". All of this was basically shit up by Facebook which normalized destruction of anonymity or even pseudonyms. Combine this with data mining and exploitative predective big data money being poured into controlling people by corporate interests and we have a major issue.

How do we fix things? First we need new privacy laws top to bottom. By default you can only gather the information you need to provide a service to the user as requested, must store it encrypted zero knowledge, and purge it as soon as possible for instance. New laws on TOS and modernizing ideas of the 4th amendment to protect data even if its not stored on your personal hardware (ie your account on a cloud service of some sort). Also related laws like requiring any use of public money to go to public/open source development would help as well as changing the specs for things (ie there will be ONE open standard for electronic medical records, universally viable no matter what vendor you use when it comes to EMR programs) There's a lot that needs to be done and some of it will be legal and policy wise.

Technical fixes can play a part of it as well, but we need legal and also societal expectations to change. We need to restore respect and value for privacy, anonymity, openness (source, specification etc) and more that makes the Internet great. Else it will be shit up even more.

yes but in a way we are the chads in this image, we are taking it the other way round though.
like creating our own group inside of a group.

This. The Web is now 1000x better. The downside is all in the content that normal retards consume, which is never anything I or any legitimate Jow Forumsentry cared about. The sheer volume of options for free/cheap/creative/extensible content creation, hosting, and communication is off the charts. Back in the bad old days it took years to bring people in and build a service up. Now the same can be done in weeks at a fraction of the cost. Big players used to be the gateway to most content through the overhead of storing a bunch of data and effectively aggregating niche content. Now you can do it virtually free if you don't care about privacy and still cheaply of you do.

Best of all you can now totally open or close access to your content easily by putting it out traditionally or nesting it in a walled garden and the tools to do either are cheap or free. Nothing is now out of reach on the modern Web and access is as close to free and open as ever. Some say that hardware is closing off at an alarming rate, but that's just cylical engineering. In the near future RISC and the sloe crawl of x86 advances will combine to make more open source hardware cheaper and more widely avaliable. The next big step for the Web is likely to be heavily open source and much more akin to Web 1.0 levels of decentralized and organic content.

...I have browsed the internet for at least four hours a day since I was nine years old. This would be since 2008, sure not amazing by he standards of people since 2003 or even earlier but sure as hell more than most losers on this website and I would say, hm. The charm of the internet is fading out, being replaced by cancer as a result of the increasing population of the internet but is creativity dying? Not really, most pricks on the net are complete hacks and people just lap their shit up out of pure boredom. Egoraptor? Smosh? Fred? Sure, probably tons of talent I missed as a kid but I remember those guys as being the big fucks and they always sucked massive turds, they were just new and set the extremely low standards of internet users.

I look at it like this...the internet always had shit people and slightly lesser shit people. The internet is way larger today, therefore way more shit people and slightly less shit people so the total quantity of shit has increased by a metric fuckton. Of course there are things I am neglecting such as the spread of god awful social media, dating sites and how the only half-decent video service, YouTube, has grown worse and worse consistently over the years which all heavily contributes to the downturn in quality. Overall I would say the issue is that the internet has grown more political and lucrative and less of a thing for hobbyists and the bored, more of a chore if anything.

I should also add, since it's my area of professional expertise, we are fast approaching an explosion in reverse engineering thanks to modern advances in the field moving much more quickly than industry itself. We have seen the warning shot of massive amounts of x86 and arm processor flaws exposed. Soon it will become clear that open standards are the only legitimate and cost effective solution to the problem.
>tldr; reverse engineering is doing more to advance open hardware than all the gnu/libre cultural shills have accomplished in decades
You're welcome.

Yeah it is, character's name is Hex Maniac, an NPC trainer. She, for whatever reason, is insanely popular with lactation fetishists and thiccfags.

you need mental help

While you are probably right, having changes brought about by such development are worse than having the general public educated and interested in the subject. Privacy wouldn't be a problem if everyone wanted it. Most would rather be ignorant and go with the flow however, and here we are. You'll just be the guy who makes them buy a new computer so they can play that one shitty new game that's coming out. Doesn't that sadden you, at all?

>I want to generally educate the masses and cause them to value things above and beyond their craven animal instincts
I don't want to sound totally unsympathetic, but most people just don't care and can't be made to care either. The world turns in spite of them, not for or because of them. The maniacs of the world see this as reason to hate the normie. I see it as a reason to ignore them and/or utilize their herding instincts to accomplish worthy goals. The evolution of the Web is largely the latter case. Privacy-less normies flooding in brought costs down and drastically increased investment in affordable tech to interact with the web. Now that the fleecing is coming to technical limitation the next phase of opening and proliferating new niches can jump off from here. There probably won't be a time when the normie values an open Web or open hardware but there will be a time when it is the norm for reasons the normie doesn't grasp and never will.

What are you on about? I can go get a second hand smartphone right now for less than the price of my original IBM compatible computer's keyboard. I can take said phone to any place with free wifi (thousands of locations in my city alone) and I'm a content creator. With the ability to utilize basic programming and networking knowledge I can avoid the mainstream gatekeepers and host my content cheaply on one of a million places. I can monetize independently of any bank through crypto currency. I can grow a self-sustaining community through entirely dynamic means and push any message I want (outside of shit that is obviously going to draw major legal problems like advocating genocide unironically) and there's nothing in the world the biggest billionaires can do about it except maybe delay me with ddos attacks and pushing me off a platform or two for a period of days.

I agree completely with the above poster. There has never been a better time to be a small content provider on the web. No question at all. I don't know anything about reverse engineering or hardware but I can say that from a software side perspective today is better than ever. Let the big players have their gardens where the rest of us can fish for eyes and ears. Our oasis in the desert will be ours and we will carry on while they bankrupt themselves trying to maintain impossible projects that please everyone. The flaw of their designs is Dunbar's number.

Commie crypto kike detected

so you want to recreate geocities?

Sound good to me

Basically yeah, high speed in 2000 was basically equal to being on Mars fucking hate the """"liberalism""""" or whatever this can be called...

>They would need solid hard rules, otherwise they will be unable to follow their vision in the long term

Thats part of why i'm having this discussion. By myself I don't have all the answers, but we have a large enough community to brainstorm potentials and think of all the ways things will break down.

As far as hosting and costs, not all sites part of a hub would necessarily need to be original creations to that hub, in an ideal world or as a possible goal we could certainly pursue that, but in the meantime sites that skirt the line and say, use only the most essential scripts for their continued existence, and have a warning about it before visiting, similar to how the FOSS store has warnings about "this app promotes the use of non free services" etc. Having hubs that are pure, and some that are a bit muddier are options, but both are improvements on what we have now.

This is exactly the kind of projects that need to start. Maybe the reason they haven't started is that we have no structure, or no one wants to play god, or one person starting something up means others are at the mercy of their whims. There's lots of ways to go about this though, and I really like your idea. Like a Jow Forumseocities sort of subnet, made and maintained by Jow Forums users.

A good real world example of community networking some of you might find interesting, is community memory.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Memory

Basically a bunch of berkerly students made public terminals that anyone in the city could use as an anonymous forum. Posting ads, writing, classifieds, stories etc. It was used for all sorts of shit, well loved, and eventually shut down suddenly. It never made a full comeback after the information age, since people could now shitpost from anywhere in the world from their home pc, but the content of community memory was very interesting.

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Capitalism is the best system we have found thusfar, as long as the people on top have values and ethics centered around their own people, ya facking faggot.

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all I know is Reddit is %100 gay

Don't forget the political angle - some of these processor flaws were deliberate backdoors, as is the Intel ME in general.

nothing crypto about me user

>we just need to rely on our rulers to be nice to us
you sound like the naive16 yr old communists who just learn about Stalin.

>values centered around their own people
This means no women, and no minorities (including Jews everywhere but Israel). Only men of the primary ethnic group of a country have any inherent loyalty to their fellows.

Of course they were, but the result is the same. Long term there is a losing fight from the proprietary closed black box design paradigm reaching physical limits vs a reverse engineering community that has an exponential web-based advantage at opening them up. The logical solution, which will also keep the business side going, is open standards and no more black boxes for most hardware. Governments don't even have to be capable of any mandate, the industry will lose money fucking themselves until they settle on a standard which allows them to leverage the open community rather than fight it all the time.

I'm on the fence for the legal front. I never expected the legal system to protect me or be on my side. Even still I ignore some laws on copyright when I torrent or download shows, movies and games. Having the law on your side can be good, but those rules are firm and less in control of the people. As it stands as long as we aren't selling anything illegal, we don't really need the law unless we want to combat the internet as a whole. We can definitely have our own corner and go from there. Everything needs a starting point, and right now we're grouped up on their turf. Let's start with what we can accomplish right now and work on the other stuff later.

You raise good points, and I do think we should use and abuse the offerings of the big data, like in the form of video hosting. Keep in mind these services aren't necessarily free, we're paying them with our personal information.
Maybe some Jow Forumsentlemen could confirm or deny this for me, but would it be possible to embed say, a youtube video, but build a shell within the site that prevents the embed from gathering user data without breaking the video, and without the need of the user using noscript or some equivilant. Build it right into the site almost like a sandbox, even if you had to give the script false information.

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>reverse engineering is doing more to advance open hardware than all the gnu/libre cultural shills have accomplished in decades
Wew lad, it's almost like one is about software and the other is about hardware.

>implying advocacy isn't about both
Lurk more summer nigger cattle

There's nothing wrong with capitalism. It forms very stable and efficient industry naturally. There IS a lot wrong with allowing capitalism to infiltrate democracy and minimize the power of the people. The interests of business and the people often conflict, and the interests of the people should be held high.

Socialism is not a solved problem because it doesn't scale well, mostly because it's easy to maliciously destabilize and game in its naive form, and more stable rulesets have traditionally been oppressive. A common socialistic solution to business growing large and controlling government is to put very strict rules on how businesses use labor and spend money, but these rules make businesses less efficient. In a global market this means your local businesses are uncompetitive. Try to solve this with tariffs and you merely kick the can a little bit. Eventually you'll find that your economy is dead, your people angry, and other countries looking at you like a wolf looks at a sheep.

These are not easy problems.

This thread is interesting, much better than most of the shit usualy posted on this board desu. don't derail the fucking thread with tangents and politics. Lets think of a solution instead.

Advocacy and three dollars will get you a coffee at Starbucks.

if you want a solution you need to know the problem, and I'm giving you the problem - Capitalism.

Most of the solutions already exist in partial form. Go contribute to IPFS if you want to make a technical contribution, or write open source GPU drivers.