What is the point of the Kindle when laptops, actual tablets and smartphones exist?

>anti glare
>feels more like a book
>e-ink
>black and white so no colorful distractions
>bretty sure the older ones still have free 3g internet for wikipedia

>still falling for this meme
explain to me how reflected light is less eye straining than transmitted light if they're both of equal intensity and equally diffuse.

>these FUCKING threads never ever stopping

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it's e-ink. It's literally the same technology as an etch-a-sketch.
>explain to me how reflected light is less eye straining than transmitted light
Think about it for a second. Square block goes in what shaped hole?

Attached: Stop.jpg (615x477, 100K)

nice post, friend. however, you forgot to explain how reflected light is less eye straining than transmitted light if they're both of equal intensity and equally diffuse.

There's only two ways to explain it to you.
A) Take college level physics II
B) demonstrate it for you in person
projection >>> television
e-ink frontlight >>>> tablet

this is objective fact

>laptops, actual tablets and smartphones
None of them use epaper sadly

still waiting for an explanation on how transmitted light is different to reflected light in terms of eye strain. it's okay just to admit you don't know.

Not him, but have you ever used an e-reader? 2 minutes of use will make it clearer than any amount of explanation.

i own and use one, but not because it's less eye straining.

My mom only uses a tablet for reading books.

Look at the sun and then at any other object.
That right there is the difference

Less eye strain
Better sleep
Easier to read
Easier to read in sunlight
Battery life measured in months
Dedicated page turn buttons
Less distractions
Cheap, replaceable

It’s better for someone who just wants to read a book, because eInk displays work in the sunlight without glare/fighting the light source, and battery life lasts for days at a time. With normal LED displays you can’t do that, you have to rely on the backlight being strong enough to fight whatever ambient light is around. Not to mention eInk will always be clearer for text use than regular displays due to the nature of how it works.

If you have bad eyes, the difference between eink and a backlit LCD is huge. The contrast is great. That's really it for me. The edges are more defined and my eyes don't have to work as hard to focus.

in order for the reflected light of the sun to be of a similar level of intensity and diffusion as it is when looking at it directly transmitted through the atmosphere, you would need to look at it in a mirror. are you saying tablet vs e-ink is akin to looking at the sun directly vs looking at the sun in a mirror?

If You want an answer, please state the question correctly. What is 'transmitted light'? Please google this term and be amused with own stupidity. Also, please think about 'if they're both of equal intensity and equally diffuse' cause it's again WTF?

Now, I could make an educated guess what You are after. In such cause, please check how lcd screens work (and what happens when you turn on screen in dark room). Then imagine same, but with e-ink again. You understand now? You know what emisive surface is? or just light source?

And, no based on YOUR 'knowledge', don't pretend to be troll. You just don't understand how light works.

>What is 'transmitted light'? Please google this term and be amused with own stupidity.
do you know how an lcd works? maybe you should google that and "be amused with own stupidity".

>Also, please think about 'if they're both of equal intensity and equally diffuse' cause it's again WTF?
before light is TRANSMITTED through an lcd it is TRANSMITTED through a diffusion panel, and when light is REFLECTED off an e-ink screen it's diffused by its matte surface. if you turn the backlight down and/or adjust the colour of the background of the page so that the lcd is emitting the same amount of light as the e-reader is reflecting, then the light reaching your eyes from both will be of a similar intensity and diffusion level. understand?

>emitting the same amount of light as the e-reader is reflecting
If you did that, you wouldn't be able to read the LCD. Have you never seen an LCD with a broken backlight? You're saying that an object that's illuminated by ambient light would give off the same amount of light as a bunch of LEDs. You need to think about that for a second because one of those objects is increasing the amount of light in the room while the other is not.

what the fuck do you think is happening when you can read an e-ink display in the sun but can't see the lcd beside it, retard?

Are e-ink displays good for reading manga?

I would imagine so, it’s just a book

the 6" ones are a bit too small for manga in my experience.

Because a backlit screen is shooting the light right into your eyes. An e-ink screen relies on the light already in existence, with optional sidelighting for darker environments.

Vibrations (flicker) and low contrast - especially with high brightness - are bad for you eyes especially when viewed firsthand for prolonged period of time. The ideal monitor has high contrast, widely adjustable brightness and no flicker. I-ink on the other hand behaves like a normal printed paper so it suffers the same problems as reading a book. So as long as you are not reading under a candle light, it is far better to read a book than being glued on to a lcd.

Reading.

Kobo Clara HD can last for weeks to months depending on your usage.

For example, if you use it one hour a day, this will last one month. If you use 4 hour a day, it will last a week.

Meanwhile smartphones will drain within a day or two for the most expansive batteries.

>the amount of light
Kek, do you measure your light in litres?

hurr me post
hurr me no gug
gug hard
post ez
hurr hurr
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3873942/

I like it. I feel like it helps me focus more on a series once I start it if I don't have a web browser 1 click away. Seconding the recommendation for the larger screen though, sometimes tiny text is hard to read.

That's about contrast, my guy. Your pupil constricts or dilates based on light levels. Midday sunlight is much brighter than most LCDs and because of the level of construction of your pupil, it's very difficult to see. I see what point you're trying to make, but in this situation, the eink display isn't going to cause any strain because your pupil is adjusted appropriately whereas with an LCD, the amount of light entering your eye must always be greater than ambient or you wouldn't be able to see it properly.

>depending on your budget
Looks like he's providing a cheaper option if needed as an alternative

>Cheap, replaceable
no

Kindle sucks, but to answer your point, e-ink devices don't fry your eyeballs with unnecessarily strong, directed andunnatural light.

I'm sure everyone has beenw aiting for ages for a color e-ink device. As it happens, colored e-ink has existed for several years now, but it's crap and I'm not even sure a single device was made using it. But some company called CLEARink just claimed to have made decent colored e-ink displays. Reports on quality vary wildly, but if nothing else, it seems to be quite superior to e-ink, being able to display 30 FPS to e-ink 1 FPS. They claim a tablet manufacturer has signed a deal already, and the first model should be released this year.

Attached: n-clearink3.jpg (595x335, 24K)

the problem is that the average person that buys a kindle for exactly this reason doesn't read enough to encounter the problem in the first place.

>Because a backlit screen is shooting the light right into your eyes.
this is a pretty meaningless statement and doesn't even attempt to explain how reflected light is different from transmitted light in terms of eye strain.

>So as long as you are not reading under a candle light, it is far better to read a book than being glued on to a lcd.
i can understand your flicker argument, but even though candle light might not be as good as sun light, wouldn't that still make it preferable to any artificial light?

you haven't thought this through. what do you think happens if you were to have a super bright lcd that's able to display white as bright as an e-ink is able to reflect in sunlight? this is exactly the same as if you go in doors and turn the backlight down and/or change the brightness of the page colour on the lcd so that it matches the brightness of the light reflected by the e-read sitting next to it.

>this is a pretty meaningless statement
No it isn't. I'm talking about how turning on an LCD screen adds light to the room and concentrates it right into your face compared to an eink display which can function without a backlight. You don't feel it as much during the day but that's a shitload of light coming from your computer monitor or phone at all times.

you can adjust the backlight on an lcd. if you turn the backlight down so that it's the same brightness as the light reflected from the e-ink display, how is it different?

Because then that LCD would be off.

>what do you think happens if you were to have a super bright lcd that's able to display white as bright as an e-ink is able to reflect in sunlight?
The LCD must always be brighter in order to contrast with ambient light because your pupil adjusts to ambient light. If the LCD is off, is it invisible? Because that's what you're implying. An LCD device also reflects ambient light, but then outputs more light to create it's display.

You don't seem to understand the difference between brightness and contrast.

Anyway, read this

I measure it in lux, like a lot of people do.

kindle's are shit because they can't display a PDF at native size. The ideal device for reading is an e-reader with a 13.9" screen.

no, you are being disingenuous. if you turn the backlight off then there will be less light coming from the lcd than is being reflected from the e-reader. my question was what happens if you turn the backlight down to match it, not what happens if you turn it off.

>The LCD must always be brighter in order to contrast with ambient light
this is wrong. it would be correct if the lcd when off reflected the same amount of ambient light as the white of the e-ink display, but the lcd when off will reflects less ambient light than the white of the e-ink display. if you turn the lcd on but have its backlight low, then you can have it transmitting the same amount of light as the e-ink is reflecting.

me have no click
can't click link
hurr why no click
hurr gug hard
me post
me post gud
no link bad
me post gud

While slightly true because the back of an LCD screen will appear black it's only slightly less than looking at the greyish white of an eink display. It's also the closest you will possibly get to that brightness level unless you're displaying very dark gray text on pure black with an OLED display.

Even if LCD displays did support going down to that low of a brightness they would not be usable.

me no rike troll
me respond
me tell troll bad
go troll
GO

I don't think he's trolling, I think he's legitimately just an idiot who doesn't know how much light backlit displays shit out.

That and he’s just arguing just to argue, it is Jow Forums after all.

There's no such scenario. Either the LCD screen has sharp contrast or it's too dim to read. Strains the eyes both ways.
Also kindles have a huge display and last forever.

>it would be correct if the lcd when off reflected the same amount of ambient light as the white of the e-ink display, but the lcd when off will reflects less ambient light than the white of the e-ink display
The amount of light required for an LCD to contrast with ambient light has nothing to do with an eink display. What the fuck are you even talking about at this point?

>if you turn the lcd on but have its backlight low, then you can have it transmitting the same amount of light as the e-ink is reflecting
There would absolutely be a level at which the two would be giving off the same amount of light, but I very much doubt the LCD would be usable at those levels since, again, contrast would come into play. This time it would be the display's contrast against itself (since an LCD can't display true black and relies on exaggerated brightness to compensate). Images would not appear very sharp and you'd now be straining to focus properly.

me on Jow Forums
no one troll
he not pretend retard
he really retard

>buying into Jew DRM
>not getting a freedom Tolino

>black is only slightly less than grey
now you're just being silly.

>Even if LCD displays did support going down to that low of a brightness they would not be usable.
they do and they are.

look at it like this: in a room with enough light to read an e-ink display, the e-reader displaying its darkest black will reflect about the same amount of light(probably slightly more) as the the amount of light total, both reflected and transmitted, coming from an lcd displaying black with it's backlight on low. if you take the lcd and then display a white screen, the amount of light total, both reflected and transmitted, will be the same as the amount reflected from the e-ink displaying white. i don't know how i could make it any simpler than this. if you still don't understand then you probably never will.

>the e-reader displaying its darkest black will reflect about the same amount of light(probably slightly more) as the the amount of light total, both reflected and transmitted, coming from an lcd displaying black with it's backlight on low.
That's wrong. If the LCD was off, they would be reflecting similar amounts of light.

Why don't you look at it this way:
An eink display showing a full black page will be near impossible to see in the dark, whereas an LCD displaying a black screen will be easily seen in complete darkness. As you add light, the LCD is already visible and the eink display comes into view slowly. The LCD is obviously giving off more light. Again, go read about that experiment posted earlier.

Reflected light has the same color temperature as the surrounding. That's the real difference between e-ink and LCD displays in my opinion. An iPad with True Tone is similar to an e-ink device.

>An eink display showing a full black page will be near impossible to see in the dark
and? you can't read an e-reader in the dark. how is this relevant? we are talking about in a lit room here, and in a lit room the amount of reflected + transmitted light coming from an lcd with its backlight turned down low will be about the same, if not the less than the amount being reflected from an e-ink display displaying black. don't forget, an e-ink's "black" is more of a dark grey. hold one up to you monitor in a lit room with both displaying black and you might be surprised at how much darker the lcd is even without turning the backlight down.

>now you're just being silly.
The difference amount of light hitting your eye when staring at an off LCD versus an on eink display is extremely minimal even though it technically exists.
>they do and they are.
They literally do not and you can test this by taking your phone or laptop into a dark room and putting the brightness to the lowest setting. It's still fucking bright.

The sole exception that I listed to this was displaying a few dark grey pixels on an otherwise off oled display. Which is obviously useless.

> in a lit room the amount of reflected + transmitted light coming from an lcd with its backlight turned down low will be about the same, if not the less than the amount being reflected from an e-ink display displaying black.
No it won't. You're literally trying to argue that X + Y is not only about equal to X but possibly less.

yes it will. hold an e-reader displaying black next to your monitor displaying black in a well lit room and check for yourself.

Your perceived black level does not equal how bright a display actually is, especially when comparing two different technologies. Turn off the light and you'll see how it illuminates everything around it even when displaying black. How lit a room is doesn't change how much light a monitor is emitting, only how you perceive it.

Meant for

>Turn off the light and you'll see how it illuminates everything around it even when displaying black.
why do you keep saying the as if it's relevant? the whole point is that it's in a lit room.

and it's not "X + Y is not only about equal to X but possibly less." as you suggest. the amount of light reflected by the lcd is less that the amount reflected by the e-ink's black, so the amount reflected + transmitted by the lcd is still about the same if not less than the e-ink when both are displaying black. you see how this takes place in a lit room? we are talking about reflected vs reflected + transmitted here. the e-ink display can't reflect light unless it's in a lit room. get it?

I've read this whole thread's argument here, and the guy is right. Bright light reflected by screen = hurt eyes. Bright light generated by computer = hurt eyes.

t. Eyelet with extreme light sensitivity.

>the amount of light reflected by the lcd is less that the amount reflected by the e-ink's black
I have no idea why you think that, but it's wrong. Even if it was right, the slight difference between two blacks is not even close to enough to make up for the backlight of the LCD. Now you're saying that if you had two things that are black, one of them could be so much brighter black that it would glow in the dark.

You're either retarded or so stubborn that you're refusing to accept that your initial position was very wrong.

There was a scientific study alreadu posted here that shows that backlit displays cause more eyestrain than eink or paper. That user is just retarded.

The point is that in a lit room you don't notice how much light it's really emitting. It doesn't matter how lit the room is because that amount from the display is still blasting in your face. It's meant to show you that the minimum brightness of an LCD is still really fucking bright compared to no additional brightness from an eink display. How are you not understanding this. If your screen has a backlight it is adding more light in the room, period.

> the amount of light reflected by the lcd is less that the amount reflected by the e-ink's black
The slight difference in the light reflectiveness of pixels does not contribute any meaningful difference to the amount of light hitting your eye while a backlight heavily does. It's like comparing the hearing impact between someone a kilometre away coughing to someone firing a cannon five feet away from you.

An eink display does not produce light and thus physically can not cause more light to hit your eye than an LCD that is on.

An LCD has a bigass light shooting light DIRECTLY AT YOUR FACE you fucking idiot. Stop fucking arguing just for the sake of arguing, which you are clearly doing. It’s like staring into a fucking lightbulb, just not as extreme. An eInk display is simply illuminated by ambient light, just like a book or a piece of paper.

You’re just fucking arguing because you can, everyone here knows it but yet you continue to pretend we don’t. Autists I swear

Light is reflected by everything you look at, if it wasn't you wouldn't be able to see it. I'm sorry you can't look at anything, and I hope your text to speech properly pronounces this post for you.

The amazon shilling on Jow Forums is insane. Almost every day new posts that are barely disguised advertising, filled with amazon agents and useful idiots.
The absolute state.

What are you talking about reflected light?

I don't know if the new eReaders have light in the screens but mine has zero light, it's exactly like a book. So that tired the sight less. That's the whole point of a eReader.

>It doesn't matter how lit the room is because that amount from the display is still blasting in your face.
it does if the amount the the e-ink's black reflects is less than the amount the lcd reflects when off(which it typically is) because then the amount of reflected light + transmitted light coming from the lcd is similar to, or in some cases even less than the amount of reflected light coming from the e-ink's black. even if you had a shitty lcd and it was very slightly more instead, this only a contrast issue we are arguing here, and if you were to turn the backlight down so that the white of the lcd matched the white of the e-ink in a lit room, then it would still be comparable to the e-ink but with worse contrast. my point is that if the lcd isn't from 1995, turning the backlight down so the that the whites of the two displays are similar might actually result in better contrast on the lcd.

what? how are you going to see a book if it doesn't reflect any light?

What the fuck are you even talking about. Even a literal mirror, which is designed to reflect light, wouldn't cause as much light to hit your face compared to an LCD backlight.

that's because of the flicker of the lcd's backlight. reading an e-reader in artificial light will be just as straining on your eyes. you need to use them in sunlight to get any benefit in terms of eye strain.

>wouldn't cause as much light to hit your face compared to an LCD backlight
Have you ever been temporarily blinded by a mirror? Most people have at some point, no fucker ever looked at an LCD and had to stop what they were doing for two minutes.

eink nigger

Get a Kindle Keyboard because
>touchscreen sucks
>trivial to crack DRM
>text-to-speech

He's talking about the book beeing completely black if it didn't reflect light. It wouldn't be possible to read it

it depends of the brightness of the backlight and the brightness of the light being reflected by the mirror, doesn't it, you absolute fucking mong? why don't you try reading the thread if you want to join the conversation.

Yes but in a typical room even a very reflective surface won't compare to the literal light cannons that are LCD backlights.

Have you tried reading an eink display for a few hours? The advantages are self-evident once you try it out.

Where the fuck do you live? Perpetual winter-land?

>transmitted light
The word you're looking for is "emitted".

Less light is going to bounce off your eink display than your LCD will emit. That's why it's easier on your eyes. They're simply not as bright.

LCDs causing eye strain is an established phenomena, denied by nobody. eink does not cause this because it's equivalent to ink on paper.

what's the point of women when traps and waifus exist?

yes, i own and primarily use an e-reader for reading books, but i do so because of the battery life and ability to read in sunlight, and not because i find them less straining on my eyes than lcds. i have read entire books on a tablet with no problem.

ITT some retard trying to argue that the minute theoretical differences in the light reflectivity of display materials makes up for this.

Attached: LL.jpg (1280x960, 102K)

>traps
understandable
>waifus
disgusting

they can be had for well less than $50 used, less than $100 new. get a job.

How young are you?

>used old model kindle for less than $20
>Library Genesis for free epubs
>Calibre for epub conversions
>Calibre DeDRM plugin for stripping the DRM of any book you can't find for free on Library Genesis

name a more ideal setup.

the light is emitted by the backlight and transmitted by the lcd.

Because your eyes know the difference between photons emitted by a backlight plate, and photons emitted by an inert back plate. Or so the retards would say. It's the same level of retardation as saying that pre-warming cables makes the system sound better, bonus points if it's a digital cable.

old enough for any eyesight problems caused by staring at lcds to have manifested by now.