Why aren't you using Lisp yet, Jow Forums?

old stackExchange on why nobody uses lisp except in niche things like AI research:

softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/60012/why-isnt-lisp-more-widespread

>never heard of boeing
>never heard of nasa
>booking a plane is bs
Do you live in a pinapple under the sea or something?

>if it's not consumer electronics then it doesn't matter
have another latte, goy.

reminds me of pic related

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still need a sauce bro, like a link to one of their websites

ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19910013462.pdf

I have

Lisp is the greatest programming language ever invented

Only thing that stops me from using Lisp is that I love the erlang VM too much to give up Elixir.

>carmack hasn't heard of cmucl or sbcl
Really surprises me, but then again nobody is perfect

ancient article from nasa.

yes, some of the the academics nasa hire use lisp because they are used to reaearch where you can get away with programs that might accidentally rewrite their own source code on the fly

but nobody in the real world would use lisp for a real industrial application because it can do shit like rewriting it’s own source code on the fly

>moving the goalpost
Suck it up faggot

Because I have more interesting things to do than flashing some LEDs on a gaymen device.

Attached: top notch lisp job.png (905x566, 121K)

how about a source from something
>modern
>deployed in more than one thing (the hubble space telescope)
>actually has USERS from the real world, some of whom feed malicious shit into your crap language where it can totally go off the rails rewriting its own source code

it's not moving the goal posts, i still want you to prove that LISP is not inherently unsafe by e.g. giving an example where it stands up in a "production" = real world/actually used by a large user base type environment

franz.com/success/customer_apps/data_mining/itastory.pdf

>real world
>aka normie world
name one good thing that has come out of the "real world" in the last century. take your time.

reddit was written in common lisp before it was taken over by faggots and turned into cancer.

I've actually just started learning scheme in sicp

>franz.com/success/customer_apps/data_mining/itastory.pdf
“We use Lisp for the
high level structure, in conjunction with a variety
of other languages such as C and Java
throughout the application.”
in other words, the MIT academics they hired were used to LISP, so they wrote their high-level search algorithms in their pet language, while the real backend of the webapp is written in C and java.

fuck, i could write my high-level algorithms in shell, python, perl, objective C, FORTRAN, COBOL, or befunge, and it could be the "high level" script that drives any webapp whose low-level/backend stuff is written in Java/C++/C/C# that keeps the shit running reliably. but for the webapp to actually WERK, you couldn't rewrite the backend stuff in lisp; in 50 years it's never been done. qed.

>Using a Lisp-based development environment, it’s easy for us to add features, such as the option of multiple airports and different travel dates, that the other systems - which are basically webservers linked into the old mainframe systems - can’t.
LISP
I
S
P

BASED
A
S
E
D

Are you illiterate or something?

see

>reddit was written in * before people who knew what they were doing rewrote it in a real production-grade language
ftfy

>a bunch of transvestites and faggots with their brains atrophied by aids
>people who knew what they were doing

sure, lisp gives you the "ability" to write code that can do nearly anything, like rewriting its own source code to do something completely different. that's why it's inherently unsafe and not for production-level stuff.

that's also the reason why researchers like it; you can make it do crazy stuff that is interesting. and that's why academics who move to NASA might start writing their shit in LISP; it's what they're used to in that type of research.

but those "features" like rewriting the program's own source code on the fly is definitely NOT what you want when you connect your application to the world wide web. you want something solid with predictable behavior.

Because it's useless for robotics.

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w-what is Crash Bandicoot?
all-things-andy-gavin.com/2011/02/02/making-crash-bandicoot-part-1/

well they got the job, not you, apparently

kek. i didn't know crash bandicoot was written in lisp. interesting.

did you know that rollercoaster tycoon was written mostly in assembly?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RollerCoaster_Tycoon_(video_game)#Development

i'd bet that sony rewrote crash 1 in assembly to optimize it afterword though

You are deliberately, militantly wrong. You're hellbent on being wrong. You have no idea where I work, but I can assure you have never worked with any dialect of Lisp. From your ignorance, you take whatever you don't understand as an "interesting unpredictable craze" just because you can't wrap your head around it. You don't even deserve pity.

almost made me reply

you still have failed to give me one example of a real-world webapp that people actually use that is implemented in lisp.

it's just the wrong application for real-world stuff, except for maybe one-off experiments like Hubble where anyone allowed to touch it is trained to "don't fuck it up"

lisp is inherently unsafe, that's why it's never been adopted after 50 years, and the fact that it's never been adopted after 50 years makes it obvious that it's not the right language to learn. maybe if you're a PhD student in AI you might learn it since your prof used it in the 80s, but otherwise, learn a real language

>i'd bet that sony rewrote crash 1 in assembly to optimize it afterword though
So you're not even a /v/fag, you're an illiterate /v/fag
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Oriented_Assembly_Lisp
Go the fuck back to /v/

I just started learning it today. It seems pretty cool. No idea what the fuck I'm ever going to need it for, but it's neat.

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If you get good at it, the right hands will come to shake yours. If you don't, at least you get pretty good at everything else. So please go on user, only good things can come out of that.

i've never even clicked on /v/ so i don't know wtf you're talking about

most game devs back in those days used ASM heavily so i think it's pretty safe to say what i said already: they probably reworked it in ASM after the initial programmers created it to optimize it (i.e. make it run smoothly)

So you're literally pulling shit out of your arse after being presented with sources.

Cool, now go fuck yourself.

i was presented sources that were 100% irrelevant, and i explained why. the last source i got was about some orbitz shit (or some other travel fare service shit) and i explained clearly why the source actually supports my arguments as opposed to the LISPtard arguments. maybe reread the thread

What a stubborn little rat you are. Not only do you lack reading comprehension, but would rather feed your delusions than admit you're wrong.

@>66743879
Go the fuck back to "new and improved" reddit and suck production dick

ok, resort to ad-hominem instead of actually giving a response...

ignored

@>66743977
Giving you a response resulted in you not properly interpreting it.
You have to go back gavino, you're not welcome here.

poor lisptard, gets pwned but falls back on
>"you interpreted it wrong"
without even trying to clarify your supposedly unclear posts that got destroyed on the basis of what _they actually said_

you're an insufferable know-it-all teenager, ad hominem (without the hyphen, it's latin) is appropriate in this situation. you've been given multiple sources that you promptly discarded on an arbitrary basis, and yet you cry for "a single source" like a baby for his bottle. you have yet to provide a single example of your own of a language that is used continually throughout a project's lifetime, of which there are 2 that i know of. c and cobol are the only languages that fit your description of a "real language"

lisp, c++, c#, java, python, perl, etc, are all used intermittently and eventually replaced. twitter was written in ruby, now it's java. reddit was common lisp, now it's java. half of the web apps written in java are now in clojure (a lisp dialect) or scala. apps written in c# are being rewritten in f#. apps in python are moving to c++. c++ is moving to php and back to another language that compiles back to c++. industrial facilities are adopting racket (another lisp dialect).

do your own research from now on instead of crying for others to spoon-feed you, faggot. it will make people hate you a little bit less.

but none of the webapps you listed are being rewritten in lisp. because it's a niche language for academic researchers.

whether or not things move to newer technologies (languages) does not mean that lisp is suddenly going to become relevant in the real world after 50 years of not being relevant. you gotta change with the times, not look back on the dead past

But Clojure is Lisp, retardo.

@>66744163
>webapps
Your view of the world is tragically, almost disgustingly small

clojure is a thing, but it's not lisp. it's it's own thing. maybe it's based on lisp, but it's different. and that's a good thing.

still doesn't know how to post on Jow Forums.
>newbie shill detected.
what company hired you, just wondering?

dude, just cut your losses and let the computer geeks continue the lisp debate

What a fucking retard. Not only are you moving the goalposts, but you completely make up shit on the spot to cover your lying ass.

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Here, have a bunch of (((You)))'s

>clojure lisp isn't lisp
>racket lisp isn't lisp
if you say so
>because it's a niche language for academic researchers
it's a general purpose language for general purpose applications, whether or not it's used for that is up to the developers. you place a great deal of faith in the expertise of the tech industry which tells me you don't work in the tech industry. it's 95% retards who couldn't write a hello world without design patters and frameworks. the fact one language is not as widely used as another says more about developers than it does about any language.

(((((((((
((((((((())))))))))))))
)))))))))

>it runs on the java virtual machine
that alone is enough to prove it's completely different from lisp

>insufferable know-it-all teenager, ad hominem (without the hyphen, it's latin)
not that other guy but the irony is just precious

Also, not sure what kind of industrial environments you're talking about but IEC 61131-3 still rules the PLC world

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So is the definition of Lisp completely exclude running on the JVM? Why? By what authority? Is this just another figment of your imagination?

By that measure, I guess Armed Bear Common Lisp isn't Lisp?

>you place a great deal of faith in the expertise of the tech industry which tells me you don't work in the tech industry.
well i don't, i work in academia. and i view what goes on in the tech industry, at least in this case (the case of why LISP isn't used in the mainstream) as some sort of arms race. the arms race has pushed lisp into the realm of academics because it is an innovative language that can do a lot of magical things, but you don't want "magic" to happen in industry, especially when hackers can try to exploit it

even in my branch of academia, we want reliable, predictable systems, and that is NOT something you would choose lisp for. we use C++ and python

66744286
>even in my branch of academia, we want reliable, predictable systems, and that is NOT something you would choose lisp for
pre-101 undergrad confirmed

the JVM imposes a lot of restrictions on what can run in it. and the absolute freedom that lisp grants is basically incompatible. so any lisp-derived language that runs in the JVM is basically a multi-limb amputee compared to vanilla LISPs

>not that other guy but the irony is just precious
correcting somebody's mistake benefits them insofar as they don't make that same mistake in the future. not every time somebody corrects somebody else is it meant to be smug, you've just been spending too much time on Jow Forums.

>IEC 61131-3 still rules the PLC world
a lot of manufacturing facilities are replacing old tcl/tk machine interfaces with racket. it's not even half as common as tcl yet but the discussion is about modern adoption of lisp.

If you knew anything about what you were talking about you'd know that Rich Hickey made sure that the JVM just emulated LISP rather than shoehorned a LISP into it.

66744320
Is Armed Bear Common Lisp not a Lisp, faggot?

>we want reliable, predictable systems
>we use C++ and python
fucking lol. you're high if you think either of those are more predictable than lisp, which is a very predictable language. lisp doesn't do anything magical, it's actually incredibly straight forward as far as languages go. you're basically writing an AST on steroids.

>vanilla LISPs
Oh wow, another completely made up term. Not surprising given that you're a completely delusional retard. Literally anyone with a double digit IQ agrees that Clojure is a Lisp dialect. The only reason you disagree is to avoid being BTFO even more in this shitty bait thread.

Did anyone in the thread mention hemlock?

lisp certainly does not manage memory the same way Java does it. and because of that it's basically impossible to allow LISP type stuff to run in the JVM. you can't emulate arbitrary lisp in java, because lisp is basically arbitrary (it can modify its own source code) whereas java and the JVM ensure some reasonable memory management

Once

@>66743159
OP gtfo back to the /arepa/ where you came from and never return. Go fuck a burra or something.

@>66744403
>you can't emulate arbitrary lisp in java
common-lisp.net/project/armedbear/
>Armed Bear Common Lisp (ABCL) is a full implementation of the Common Lisp language featuring both an interpreter and a compiler, running in the JVM
Oops

>No true Scotsman, the post.

lisp is certainly less predictable than C++ and python. LISP allows runtime code modification, which basically is a translation for "you can never be sure what the code is actually doing"

python and c++ do NOT have this feature. and the fact that they CAN'T do this is good for predictability and reproducibility

@>66744436
>LISP allows runtime code modification
You literally have to ask for it. If you don't modify your code, it doesn't get modified. C++ and python can do exactly the same, you just have to bend over backwards to achieve it. That's why you have to fork the compiler to add control structures in Algol's, while in CL you can implement an object system as just a compatible bolt-on library.

>a lot of manufacturing facilities are replacing old tcl/tk machine interfaces with racket. it's not even half as common as tcl yet but the discussion is about modern adoption of lisp.
TCL/TK isn't IEC 61131-3 standard, but yes that particular language is kinda ass. LD is still thriving. ST is also used a lot. Haven't heard much about racket, honestly.

t. embedded developer who works for a company that makes PLCs

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please, please, please learn how to post on Jow Forums.

total shill right here.

if you read my comment you might be able to respond to it with a REAL response, because even considering your reply, arbitrary LISP code would NOT run in the JVM due to its memory management. the JVM would kill "pseudo-LISP" programs running within it if it overran its memory or did some segmentation violation. your argument is totally crap and i am convinced you are a complete fucking shill

Have some (((You)))'s you desperate whore

You claimed that Clojure isn't a Lisp because it runs on the JVM (which is wrong), and I pointed you at an example of (yet another) production-ready Lisp implementation that (this time) both carries Lisp in its name and again runs on the JVM. It has an interpreter for arbitrary Lisp code and it runs on the JVM, and the program doesn't get killed.

git gud || git commit sudoku

s expressions are unreadable, haskell and ml are better

>s expressions are unreadable
It's sad that such a brainlet has a better argument than OP

->66743392
>closed as primarily opinion-based

aldo
>taking stackexchange as a primary source

bullshit. it runs in th JVM and adheres to its rules and you know it. otherwise it runs in some hacky alternative which implements the same rules

@>66744605
Indeed, it runs in the JVM; it's an ANSI INCITS 226-1994-compliant Common Lisp that runs on JRE1.6 through 1.8. The only bullshit here is your delusions. Now, as I said, please proceed to goto /arepa/ and fuck a burra.

Can you be a fanboy for something other than LISP?

As someone who uses both CL and Clojure, I really don't want people like you representing us. LISP is something awesome that we need more people to be a part of so it can regain it's rightful relevance. Whatever dialect, be it elisp, racket, Clojure, CL, or anything else.

People like you belong in some shitty subculture or meme language like Haskell not something as awesome, storied and powerful as LISP is.

Now, as I said, absolute fucking shill.

ignore all these fucking shill posts

>LISP is something awesome that we need more people to be a part of so it can regain it's rightful relevance.
Why not start by at least creating notepad.exe equivalent to lure in people instead of parroting platitudes from Paul Graham like a fucking cult of morons you are?

@>66744699
I'd point you to hemlock but you'd actually be better off drinking some

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We have one. It's called Emacs. It's been around for about 40 years.

>like a fucking cult of morons you are
I'd rather be that than completely invested in a meme language like Haskell that'll be a footnote in 10 years time.

In the complete page, Lisp and C are the only ones that end up getting the princess, and your picrelated needs a decent editor with paredit

Because it's nothing but a Jewish trick.
All smoke and no fire.

theres LFE

Check OP's picture, invalid reply. Why can't you insufferable homosexual glitterbois make a notepad.exe equivalent only in Common Lisp? How about paint.exe? A damn basic calc.exe Windows 3.1 style at least? The more I think of this the more it's mystery.

>The lack of strong typing in lisp
the fuck
I thought this guy knew what he was talking about.

>i'll move the goalposts here to make my argument
If LISP isn't for you, so be it. Go program in C or Haskell or something and talk about how great you are.

because lisp is an obsolete language from the 1960s that not even a boomer would use.