I-is programming for a living fun? Is it a good job?

i-is programming for a living fun? Is it a good job?

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Am I stupid? Why is that first loop in updateAllImages() not a for loop? Am I a brainlet?

>is it fun
Not really no.
>Is it a good job
Depends where you work I would assume but yeah I like my job.

> is it fun
Depends on what you are doing; what I do, yes.
> is it a good job
I make bank, so you decide.

Yes, if you are really good at it, its like being god. The workload can be extremely variable depending on the projects though, so you cant be a bitch. Work hard, get good, and its fuckin amazing. You will get shit on for the first 5 years or so though. You have to remain humble and open your mind up. Stay away from cult bullshit (nodejs, most front-end frameworks, meme languages, container shit, etc) and you'll be fine. Learn how continuous integration can save you hundreds or thousands of man hours per month. This is the real magic. Being lazy and automating your laziness. You can get a team of 4 developers performing like a different team of 100 developers with the proper processes in place. You can build entire majestic worlds of productivity inside of organizations with small developer teams if you plan and execute correctly. Oh, and
>the pay is fucking insane if you are receive the holy "Unicorn Developer" designation. These are the guys who can stand up the entire stack from scratch, and simultaneously handle customer support, business concerns, team management, etc. The business will pay you literally anything you ask for if you get to this point. Equity? done. No questions asked kind of thing. There is no ceiling on how far you can take this career if you are dedicated and disciplined enough.

It could be. For loops and while loops are literally the same thing besides syntactic suger so it doesn't really matter.

Every for loop is a while loop (is an 'if-goto'), user. It's just a syntactic shorthand.

What's the best avenue to begin programming in? It's web-dev, right? Or is it just being flexible?

Depends on what you want. If you want to participate in the webshit bubble and end up unemployed in a few years when it bursts, go straight to webdev. If you're looking for something more long term, go with just general programming, starting with the fundamentals in a fundamental language like C.

If you are happy whatever you are doing its good. But first rule of working in tech area, never ever let your co-workers that you know something. Doing only what they want you to do leads to happiness.

Yes, user :3

>Depends on what you want. If you want to participate in the webshit bubble and end up unemployed in a few years when it bursts, go straight to webdev. If you're looking for something more long term, go with just general programming, starting with the fundamentals in a fundamental language like C.>>
I've programmed some programs in C, C++, C#, Java, etc. but I feel like I never know them at all. Is there a way to crush this feeling?

You could probably read the lang spec top to bottom, jump into a super shitty untested codebase, add tests to it and refactor it.

That would probably crush that feeling.

>is programming for a living fun?
No. Not unless you are one of the 1% of programmers who gets to work on something interesting. Even then, it's a lot less fun when it's someone else's project.

>Is it a good job
Sure, why not.

I just became a god at C# and its primary platform (.NET Framework). The other languages come pretty naturally when I need to dabble as a result I think. HTML/CSS/JS are also as a 2nd language to me. If you can thrive on vanilla javascript, you will be able to code circles around literally anyone using npm horsecocks.

This. If you're 10x, your treated like royalty. Put four or five of these guys on a team and you can't make a project go any faster while still being maintainable. It's also easy to see who's 10x as well. The guy that has 2 years experience, but the 7 to 15 years guys go to them for help or advice. It's a constant ego boost to those who in terms of the project/language are omniscient and omnipotent.

No. Accounting is better and pays more.

learn-c.org/en/Variables_and_Types

>npm horsecocks.
Agreed, but npm horsecocks > jQuery dog shit.

Won't work for things like C++ where the language spec is written extremely formally, basically for the complier team. You have to know a lot before you attempt to read it, but even then knowing the language features doesn't imply you can utilize them usefully.

>Accounting is better
Kek, what is even accounting? Sounds like a soul crushing task that'd only keep tardies entertained.

I dont even use jquery in my codebases. Writing a JSON API client in vanilla JS is a fucking trivial affair. Selecting dom elements is fucking trivial affair. Wiring event handlers into dom elements - same deal. I dont get why people are too retarded to just read the fucking EMCA spec over at MDN and do it the correct way. "eww i dont want to get my hands dirty in the js". Go suck a dick with that fucking attitude. It's not like you are being asked to code in ASM or some other low level language. You can still write all the autistic high-level shit you want, you just wont have someone babby sitting your retarded ass with some angular directive tutorial for how to wire in a form button submit event through 5 convoluted, leaky abstraction layers of nonsense.

>Won't work for things like C++ where the language spec is written extremely formally

Fine - at bare minimum you need all the syntax, undefined behavior, and common patterns native to the language. Then do the codebase revamp and the feeling should go away.

Maybe. However I feel like just having enough basic knowledge isn't enough to stop the imposter feeling. As soon as you got a new language, library, framework, or codebase it'll return. I think to truly crush that feeling you need to learn how to learn, and have a curiosity for the unknown. Lots of people fear that. They see syntax/code they don't understand and rather than diving in and figuring out how the gears turn, they run away. If they have to touch it, they'll try to ignore what they don't get and make the minimal change that they have to do before retreating to familiar territory. They won't retain anything. They be programming in C++ for ten years but don't know what a template is. They'll be programming in JavaScript for 10 years and don't know something similar like higher order functions. They'll be programming in Java for 10 years, but don't know how to write a generic. They knowledge is broad but shallow, which makes them feel inadequate.

I honestly can't complain.

The trick is to be fearless. You cannot be afraid to fail when the only consequences of the worst case code fuckery are:
>git reset --hard && git clean --fdx
This is how you retreat, but try to set up little outposts along the way, branch out multiple versions of the same codebase to try different approaches. EXPECT them to fail, but be ready for when they start to actually come together and work.

>I dont even use jquery in my codebases.
As nobody should. It's a huge slow hammer that people use for easy vanilla things, like ajax or querySelector(). People learned how to rely on it, then forgot how to do JS.

>Wiring event handlers into dom elements
Sometimes a framework can help, generally in making reusable components, but it can also be over used, turning the codebase into an unintelligible blob of code. Devolving into "Enterprise quality" interfaces/factories/etc. That makes wiring up a button so retarded.

1) You need to get a job, and they need to keep paying you. Dedication and discipline have nothing to do with it. If you don't have the piece of paper that says you're good at what they want, regardless of how good you are, they won't hire you.

I'll grant you one-way data/event binding helpers to get from models to DOM. But even these helpers may be written in a trivial amount of vanilla JS and used as a common library across your front-end codebases. I think stuff like RiotJS is a really good compromise for those who want a lightweight approach to one-way binding and still maintain flat vanilla logic without actually writing a utility to do this.

This

But also this.

The thing is,most jobs are primarily integration work and boring as fuck. If you can, find a good start-up that builds products or services. It’ll be hell in terms of hours, but if you work with a good crew, it can be the most amazing experience in your life. And you’ll learn a fuck-ton of new things in a very short time.

You don't know them all. Even if a language is entirely written by one person, that person didn't know the languages before them. We stand on the shoulders of giants. You need to think more like a scientists: "Am I knowing enough to do what I want to do, in whole or in part?".

I love C for it's obviousness. There's ways to obfuscate it, but it's a brutally simplistic language. The difficulty isn't in C, it's getting the logic right and figuring out what the fuck libraries are doing:

>prepping data to send out a T1 line
>fill up a buffer
>when the buffer became full the data corrupted
>turns out every "try to send" call was re-converting data from the initial uint16 to u-law... to u-law... to u-law...
Made perfect sense in context, but using other libs means they have hidden behavior. Stupid organization or unusual expectations are the only gotchas in C outside of like, char being neither signed nor unsigned.

>is programming for a living fun?
Code monkey isn't, actually designing good solutions with a technically competent team is.

>Is it a good job?
Yes, but it depends on your personality and skill level.

Please focus on your fucking skills rather than building a career within a singular company, and be prepared to jump to different jobs every couple of years to keep your skills fresh. This has the added benefit of increasing your salary incredibly fast.

If you're skilled you'll find that companies will be willing to let you work whenever the fuck you want, wherever the fuck you want, for a good chunk of money.

Only time I ever hated my job was when I got forced into a team leader position and had to deal with management bullshit, because you get tired of seeing incompetents ignore your advice and blame you for the fallout you warned them about time and time again.

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Beats mortgage driven development

>Why is programming fun?
>First is the sheer joy of making things. As the child delights in his mud pie, so the adult enjoys building things, especially things of his own design. I think this delight must be an image of God's delight in making things, a delight shown in the distinctiveness of each leaf and each snowflake.
>Second is the pleasure of making things that are useful to other people.Deep within, we want others to use our work and to find it helpful. In this respect the programming system is not essentially different from the child's first clay pencil holder "for Daddy's office."
>Third is the fascination of fashioning complex puzzle-like objects of interlocking moving parts and watching them work in subtle cycles, playing out the consequences of principles built in from the beginning. The programmed computer has all the fascination of the pinball machine or the jukebox mechanism, carried to the ultimate.
>Fourth is the joy of always learning, which springs from the nonrepeating nature of the task. In one way or another the problem is ever new, and its solver learns something: sometimes practical, sometimes theoretical, and sometimes both.
>Finally, there is the delight of working in such a tractable medium. The programmer, like the poet, works only slightly removed from pure thought-stuff. He builds his castles in the air, from air, creating by exertion of the imagination. Few media of creation are so flexible, so easy to polish and rework, so readily capable of realizing grand conceptual structures. Yet the program construct, unlike the poet's words, is real in the sense that it moves and works, producing visible outputs separately from the construct itself. It prints results, draws pictures, produces sounds, moves arms. The magic of myth and legend has come true in our time. One types the correct incantation on a keyboard, and a display screen comes to life, showing things that never were nor could be.

>like my job
>it's not fun

what?

t. unemployed college graduate

did you pay your loans yet?

how can I get good? I am learning Mozilla web development guide. It's boring as fuck but I have to keep up. Also I started pretty late (30yo)

>i-is programming for a living fun?
It has its moments but most of your time will be dealing with trying to build new features while managing technical debt and coping with normies who can't communicate worth a shit.
>Is it a good job?
No it sucks, anywhere you can get work, the absurd taxes will suck away any benefits of the field.

i guess "i" is used somewere after the while loop

Unless you're a top guy 99% of it is busy work using someone else's library. Also, I hate FOSS, makes my job feel like even worse shit than it already is

no.

This.

I moved out of dev into sys ops cause i was bored. Eventually automated most of our systems and now have a "dev ops engineer" title. Even though dev ops isn't a god damn field

Underrated and accurate post. Thank you.

Am I memeing myself by trying to learn the web stack?
Currently trying to get Angular down but i dunno

Not really sure what i want to specialize in or learn

depends on the company

but having the satisfaction when everything works together without testing/planning is fun

Kek, you sound like a loser.

what is a unicorn developer?

>i-is programming for a living fun?
No.
>Is it a good job?
No.

t. actually employed developer

This is just patently false. I got my first Jr. Dev position with a college degree in psychology. You can start walking the developer path with hobbyist level knowledge, people skills, humility, and a willingness to learn and be wrong.

Do you have any comparison to what other people do for money?

a job is not fun, if I didn't need money I wouldn't work a day in my life.

I like my job, but I wouldn't call it fun.

Yes. Most other jobs are shit as well, doesn't make mine any more enjoyable.

i won't trust someone who can't even greentext properly

Really nice post

No it fucking sucks. Get out before its too late

Would anyone here choose game development by themselves instead of working for someone if they could? I don't really care about massive amounts of money. I currently live off of around $900 a month in Washington state by living with people and sharing rent. I'd like to make more just because I want to put money away while I'm young and end having to work to survive as soon as possible. Indie Game Dev is appealing to me because I want to make something that people like. I also don't want to put pants on or leave the house or talk to anyone or be beholden to someone paying my paycheck directly.

That's fair I guess.

Yeah should be a for loop for clarity.

I think it's fun. Some people don't. Depends on your interest and the job

>Angular
If you're green enough you're struggling to learn a specific framework it'll probably be deprecated by the time you're done.
Play around it with it, make it do something if you can, but make sure you learn something more abstract and generalizable in the process.

if you are passionate about it its fun and you can earn some money. If you are not passionate about learning new stuff all the time then I suggest going for some other job.

Write some code in your homeplace and discover if you like it or not. Programming is a constant problem solving, learning new things.

Couldnt have said it better myself. Great post.

The guy did a pretty good job summarizing it right there. They are employees who have skill sets way above and beyond the minimum needs of their position, and usually can replace entire teams of people other than in perhaps development speed.

Go for it man, as long as you dont expect to make any money. I recommend you start with a small project first, something you can turn out in less than a year, before you work on anything "full scale" just so can get a feel for it.

nice way to put it.

learn react, angular is a meme that will be finished by the time you find a webdev job

is this from the mythical man-month?

why hating on containers ? too brainlet to understand it ?

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lol I'm best friend is a community college and he was still hired.

no

ya its pretty legit. i work in the bay area, my salary is 215k/year, before bonuses/incentives, and i have a blast. my co-workers are weird and quirky like i am, and we build a pretty dope app that millions of people use.

What do you do user

>Paid well
>Comfy
>Low stress
>genuine sense of accomplishment when you work on something good

It's not 'fun' as in no way in hell I'm bothering to learn all this shit if I wasn't getting paid for it.

it better than flipping burgers or cleaning toilets

Low stress? Is that true?

Depends on the workload and your skill level.

>fun
It's fun if you enjoy it / are passionate about it. Yes for me, not for everybody. Subjective.
>pay
yeah you make good money in most places my dude

as a bonus it can make you a better problem solver overall, if you're good at it

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w939142
(cont because i had more thoughts)

If you do enjoy it you'll probably be motivated to make your own hobby projects which can be pretty satisfying once you get end result.

The biggest roadblock in picking it up is to learn to think like a program, like a computer. Your problems need computerized, not humanized solutions. Sounds obvious but can take a while to translate an idea to a function quickly (aka "how would i do this?").

You don't need to stick to one job or language since both high and low level share the same core fundementals (usually) which makes learning every new language significantly faster.

and because of that, you never really ever stop learning. you're always gaining experience or learning new things constantly. does that sound fun? go give it a spin

also java sucks cocks don't be a sandnigger

definitely meant to put a w there

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yes, i fucking love this shit