Why is it declining?

#triggered

Java is used by companies who need easily replaceable programmers - where technology and programs are secondary to the rest of what the business does. Java has a nearly endless supply of developers to choose from, outsourcing when the company feels like it, and big companies/contractors to buy stuff from to cover asses when making a decision some middle manager has zero clue about.

Java also has its fingers in every pie - no matter what you're looking at doing, even if Java's a poor fit for the problem, somebody's probably tried doing it with Java.

Because of the Jews

Trump has made it difficult for pajets to get a visa and stay working after graduating

More people make 6 figures using java than those who make it using go.

Based Trump. Means I get even more leverage as a Java developer

It's over-engineered. Very complete and thorough, but sometimes it's a bit much.

There's more modern alternatives for a lot of the things Java was once used for. JS, Python, and Kotlin are all rapidly growing and are taking bites out of Java's market share.

Java is great for applications that don't need a sophisticated GUI, and don't run on resource-starved platforms. That means things like servers, build/CI/CD utilities (that includes everything from Gradle to Docker), etc.

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To be honest, it made it harder but they can still find a job. I have tons of pajet friends and they found jobs with-in 3-4 months of graduating. Before Trump they were able to get jobs before graduation...

> cant compete with a pajeet
you must really be horrible

I already got a job few days after graduation, stop assuming

At Southwest airlines we use Java for Enterprise communication software. Mostly restful services and some jms.

Literally the same for my job too. It's all about restful services and easy access to generic data sources. Spring et al.

>bragging about making 6 figures

Mastercard uses it for transaction processing
developer.mastercard.com/blog/the-vertx-worker-model

>2018
>using Java

Pick?

>what is java being used for

literally any functional backend

> literally any security issue
java is garbage, if you're using it in prod you should stop

Java was primarily used because it allowed corporations to develop working software much quicker than C++, and was easier to learn which bolstered the workforce. For the same reasons, Java is now being displaced by more modern languages that improve on its shortcomings.

>java is garbage, if you're using it in prod you should stop

I think IBM knows a lot more than some larping NEET on Jow Forums who associates a language with pajeets.

> IBM
> hasnt invented anything worthwhile in like 40 years
yea, IBM knows lots
They cant even launch a successful cloud computing platform

I know a high level manager at IBM who said the corporate culture is one of resistance to change and literally a "that 30 yr old boomer" mentality, which is why it is getting crushed by amazon and microsoft

I knew a fag from IBM who tried to be our "DevOps Engineer Manager" literally quit in 3 months because he didnt know what he was doing.

Java software is all backend these days. It's what powers large distributed webservers, hospitals, banks, airlines, and so forth.

As the DoD starts to roll out their new eHealthcare systems for all the VA hospitals it will be the thing that makes all of them work.

People love to hate on the language but they have no idea how many companies rely on it.

IBM writes like one java software for Web called WebSphere and it's pretty damn successful and expensive as fuck. Not sure what you guys are larping on since Amazon and Microsoft don't compete with this software.

Ever hear of quantum computing? Yeah? IBM is the leading company when it comes to that...

> thinks websphere is successful
> doesnt realize tomcat and jboss beat it all day everyday
> Ever hear of quantum computing? Yeah? IBM is the leading company when it comes to that...
meanwhile, Intel has created the chip, IBM != Intel you incel

Not that you'd believe it, but Oracle desperately wants Java to remain relevant and have been putting serious development behind it. Java 11 or 12 will have real value types, with reified generics. Also, Java will be able to compile to a single, smallish binary that can be distributed easily (stick that that in in your pipe C++).

t. Person who disects the JVM.

The backend of the largest cloud computing platform is written in Java.

The backend of the most used kernel is written in C

I can make useless posts too

Java isn't actually that bad. Don't listen to memes, just look at the industry.

>Also, Java will be able to compile to a single, smallish binary that can be distributed easily (stick that that in in your pipe C++).
Link?

can confirm, dad worked at ibm and it was like pajeet boomer hierarchy system rather than a job. had a manager who just sat in the middle of an empty room with a turban on, needless to say it was more of a power struggle rather than "innovation that excites." the mass firings speak for themselves, indian business machines is like a metaphor for a boomer trying to restore a rusty ass mopar but dying when his transplanted heart finally stops pumping

graalvm.org
Java future is amazing.

not unless its dead and buried, fuck oracle and fuck java

Where does that say that GraalVM will be part of the next standard though? Does Oracle actually support it?

what's wrong with using Java for desktop applications ? Especially in a business environment. If you are pure windows shop than I guess C# would be okay. But for multi-platform development it seems like the best route to me...

Did java hurt you? Show me where he touched you.

I think the big issue is that there just isn't a well developed desktop community for Java. There's Javafx but there's a lot lacking in terms of appearance and functionality.

OPs premise was that Java is declining. Obviously, it's not. People who say it is are unemployed NEETs.

Yes.
youtube.com/watch?v=JoDOo4FyYMU

blogs.oracle.com/developers/announcing-graalvm

oracle.com/technetwork/oracle-labs/program-languages/overview/index.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GraalVM

it kept me up all night because the garbage collector was running and killing prod. It locked tables because of the shitty database implementation. It needed to use old versions of tomcat because of the shitty build system.

Should I go on?

>Java was primarily used because it allowed corporations to develop working software much quicker than C++,
I think the major selling point is that it allowed companies to have brainlets writing their software.

Nice, nice, I like the idea. The claims seem to be big about zero overhead, but Oracle has managed to continually improve with the JVM. Does this mean that there won't be a need to have a Java environment installed (seeing as the executables will be compiled AoT)?

There is no doubt IBM has successful products. But they rely on their existing products and their government contracts and pray their cash cows dont dry up.

Programming languages are designed to be used as tools, not for stroking your fragile ego and compensating for your insecurities.

what features are we talking in particular ? Normally when it comes to Java desktop programs I am thinking either basic command line functionality or a basic GUI program using Swing. I know JavaFX has features related to rich Internet applications but what about just run of the mill desktop programs ?

Absolutely. That's a huge factor. And part of the reason it's being replace is because there are toolchains and languages that allow even dumber people to produce useful software (Go)

I wish Java had properties and data classes. I'm going to be forced to write Java code again soon (I write Kotlin mostly) and I just can't go back to getters/setters.

Oh yes, I've heard of it, the infamous Pajeetitus. When one can no longer support the weight of its own shortcomings, it starts lashing out at its software stack, what a pitiful disease .

>People love to hate on the language but they have no idea how many companies rely on it.
I hate Java, but know it and can use it because I appreciate how it can fit into certain business processes.

Use an ide zoomer

graalvm.org/docs/examples/java-kotlin-aot/

Native imagen don’t need installer JVM.

>ide zoomer
Huh, what's that? Is there a plugin for that in IntelliJ?

How's the performance right now? Any docs on that? I notice it's in preview release.

this but probably above all that I'd like extension functions. never understood what the barrier is for adding that to java

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>Use an ide, zoomer
My bad, should've used proper commas.
Intellij has out of the box features to write get/set for you.
You can also use Project Lombok and make data classes with annotations.

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eregon.me/blog/2018/02/19/truffleruby-native-fast-short-scripts.html

Version ruby on graalvm still in beta.

people not doing the needful

Boomer: The Programming Language

How do programmers even live with these salaries?

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It goes against their philosophy of only making class modifications from within the class. Take that with a grain of salt because I'm talking out of my ass.

>t. economylet

>Java
>declining
tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

Because Oracle didn't move a finger for over a decade and the language stagnated while competitors like C# were constantly improving.

Thanks for confirming you're an autistic NEET.
Java is the modern COBOL and the majority of business applications are written in it.
While the flashy Node/Go/Rust/etc. shit makes headlines, it's really just a small percentage. The world runs on Java and C# (granted, the Internet-facing frontend is mostly JS).

People got sick of Oracle and patent shit and Java 9+ brought fucking shitty changes
Java 8 will be used for decades.

You are very smart for using very hard non Pajeet languages like JS and Python.

Because it needs 4GB memory to run a FizzBuzz?

javacodegeeks.com/2017/11/minimize-java-memory-usage-right-garbage-collector.html
vogella.com/tutorials/JavaPerformance/article.html

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Am I wrong or do these figures mean the average programmer knows around 6 languages?

Yeah probably but with specialization on 2-3.

A programmer should be able to select the right tool for the job instead of memeing what's shit and not

Object Oriented programming is a meme. Hard coupling of data and functionality is a core problem of everything.

sh (Linux) + HTML, CSS, JS (front-end) + SQL, Python or PHP or ... (back-end)
So even the average web developer indeed requires 6 languages

Is it good for my employment chances if I know the top 6 on that list or is a mix of more niche things preferred?

If you have to ask this, I doubt you know jack shit about programming. You probably get stuck on hello world.

Depends on the position being applied.

It's not just IBM. It's Netflix, Google, Amazon, Siemens, JP Morgan and hundred big names more

how can python programmers earn $50k? i literally learnt it in one evening...

AOT is a lot slower atm when it comes to number crunching, but hopefully itll improve

Something that has always been shit can't decline.

Java worldwide slaray is skwed by india and yurop
Java salaries in US are higher than C# or similar

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I never understood how Go developers think go is not another incarnation of Java. I guess you could pretend to be cool if you worked in AI using Haskell or harcore security shit using C. But saying "Ha! I'm a Go developer! In you face Javatards" makes absolutely no sense to me.

It's another C-type with good tooling and terrible tools to build abstractions.

But I'm just a guy who did 5 years of Java and 2 of Scala. I may be missing something.

Java is only declining in the sense that not as many people are learning it compared to JavaScript, Python, etc. There will still be many Java positions open for a very long time.

Not as many projects are being started in Java because the promise of the JVM is now unnecessary. Most enterprise environments use intel-based processors throughout the software development process. With the advent of Docker, any application can be made 'write once, run anywhere'. Today, developers are free to use the correct language for the job - and that's a _good_ thing, despite what some random language fanboy asserts.

Java is healthy, but it's 20-year mega-grip on industry is slipping.

Languages don't scale. Architectures do.

This.

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yeah and node.js architectures don't scale. Good luck doing heavy event processing with node lmao

>Good luck doing heavy event processing with node lmao
Luck not needed - just use AWS' SQS and Lambda services and get an application that will scale to arbitrarily many events and be done by lunch.

Nice RP.

>all event processing is just tasks that take at most 5min

webshits really have no clue

What an insightful comment on the nature of creating scalable applications.

Jow Forums is cancer.

I use it for Minecraft :DD

if you think you can do a whole architecture for something amazon in node.js you are the cancer
if you think you can do a whole architecture for an optimization problem in node.js you are the cancer
if you use node.js you are the cancer