Are vim and emacs just boomer shit?

Emacs and Vim don't have easy user interfaces interfaces. But easy interfaces aren't always the most productive.
Often you as a user have to learn some new things to be able to use a powerful system.
Unfortunately there is a trend in software design dismissing anything that's not easy, because people like you think more easy is more better.

This.
I hate how modern interface design leaned towards retard-friendly interfaces and no effort is put into helping power users be more productive.
Emacs is great, because it's designed in a coherent way, and you can ask it about functions, keybindigns and pretty much anything. The tutorial teaches next to nothing about actual editing, but it sure tells about conventions in Emacs and how to ask it for help. It's the peak user interface design.

What about files on a headless remote machine? Don't tell me you scp that shit back and forth user...

>how retarded compilation and restart is in literally every other language.
What are you talking about. I just run command make, and in less than 1" emacs jumps to the error.

Just TRAMP into it. It's as simple as using a path like /ssh:[email protected]:/path/to/file and editing your files as if they were local.

Emacs is kind of slow. I have it on my phone and it takes about 10 seconds of running scripts to be initialized. And searching large files? Forget about it.

Termux doesn't seem to have a properly compiled emacs, you're starting temacs and using that every single time, which is supposed to be ran once to load all essential lisp code and dump a binary for later use.
It's a shame, but it's the best you can do on android at the moment. If it wasn't for it, it would startt MUCH faster.

you have to kill your app process to change code. Lisp changes code while your app process is still running.

Android sucks. I hate the state of mobile atm

That's a cool feature but it doesn't scale well.

of course it does. incremental compilation scales extremely well.
to change one function in a huge program, lisp changes just that function, and doesn't need to re-compile anything else.

>lisp changes just that function, and doesn't need to re-compile anything else.
The same with a properly coded program. Changing a function need to recompile only the changed file.

Is the Windows version of Emacs usable?

Yes.

>>emacs was incredibly bloated (over 210 mb) it might as well be an operating system
But he's right.
That's just ridiculous.

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That's the size of a compressed package. Emacs on windows weighs around 400 MiB uncompressed.

>In 2000, Joy gained notoriety with the publication of his article in Wired Magazine, Why The Future Doesn't Need Us, in which he declared, in what some have described as a "neo-Luddite" position
Literally my favourite developer now. What a guy.

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>400 MiB uncompressed
Makes sense. It probably has to have the whole GNU underpinnings with it. But being 100 MB+ on linux is just unacceptable for a terminal program. That's lol-just-ship-a-chromium-instance-with-it amounts of space-waste.

>emacs
>40+ yrs/old
>ported to every OS throughout said years
>still updated
>still getting new features

it ain't a meme

I think it makes sense when you consider what is packaged with a standard emacs installation. >tutorial
>every function having a description
>some adventure game
>rucking Tetris
>a fucking elinks-like web browser with some stylesheet support
>lots of complex modes
>probably some GTK shit and xorg code in there too

From archlinux.org:
>Installed Size: 127.3 MB
It is insanely large, even considering how much Emacs comes with out of the box. The point is that it can become a large package if you're using a toy os without a package manager, like windows.

Every MB of emacs is just pure features, while code/atom/electron shit is just 95% bloat and 5% features

Nano, my friend

who the fuck cares whether it's 10MB, 100MB or 1 GB.

Ignore boomers, we are beyond terminal wankery. Interfraces exists for a reason

people who don't use Emacs care very much as is evident itt

they don't really, they are only repeating a 30 years old talking point.
I mean, it was a reasonable point (I think emacs was 10MB or something) back when average pc had 250MB hdd. Not today.

>it might as well be an operating system

Well that makes sense....because it IS an operating system

Give me ONE reason to use emacs

It does matter. If you need to constantly upgrade to do something as basic as editing text, something that was expected from a computer in the 80s, something is seriously wrong with where software is heading.

It's the best shell available on Windows. You get a completely portable configuration which can be moved between Win, OSX, Linux etc.

I bet if you had emacs without any extensions, scripts or modes prepackaged and without Gtk support it would be only a couple mb.

Its boomers, they think it means they're sick/wicked/dope and "hardcore™ my-nizzel". Use whatever editor you want, remember vim/emacs are not faster/better/etc. they are a waste of time.

You're missing the other user's point, which is:

Emacs is a virtual Lisp machine. Pretty much all of its behavior (outside of a relatively small C core, which is mostly Lisp interpreter anyway) is defined by a bunch of Lisp code that can be arbitrarily modified and extended at runtime. You can extend and modify any and all parts of emacs in emacs while emacs is running.

And *that* is the real power of emacs, not the (admittedly retarded for the most part) key chords made for 1970's Symbolics keyboards, that it still comes with by default.

...so you can do that in Python too. Why isn't anyone developing in Python?

How fucking dumb are you?
Like really, I can't figure out whether this is bait or honest stupidity.
Python does not have hot reloading built-in, not in the same way that Emacs does. Python also does not offer a way to easily debug, modify, and reload any part of a running program while that program is still running.

>Why isn't anyone developing in Python?
Are you fucking retarded? Everyone on *NIX systems is developing in Python. That's why the interpreter is included on many Linux distributions, and why many large tech companies use it for scripting and server-side code. That's why undergraduate programming courses are in Python, and that's why so many open source projects are in Python.

Take your (You) and take your ass to another thread, please.

Well, not that guy, and it might have been snarky, but I'm glad you responded to him anyway, that was a good read, along with the thread

>do better statement next time
BASED

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No, you can't "do that in Python too", because unlike Python, Lisp has no distinction between code and data. Lisp code is made out of Lisp data objects, which makes it possible for it to modify itself.

How is that different than eval?

moron

As has been suggested, you could use TRAMP. You could also mount with sshfs. This example comes up so frequently I have to wonder if it's literally just a checkmark for someone to hit in these threads.

I'm using vim because of habit. Although I tried emacs, I can't into keep using it. I can't into the keybindings, always end up typing jjkjkjk and make the whole thing go nuts when I mistype a command and enter in an obscure mode.
I'm jelly of emacs fags' "swiper" and the thing that fetches the autocomplete and function help from the manual of whatever programming language you're using. I'm also jelly about the extra smuggness of emacs' Elisp and emacs fags "Windows, macOS? that's just a boot loader for emacs :^)"
But I don't like putting all my eggs in the same basket so I keep on using vim for editing and other stuff for other purposes.

Take the spacemacs pill user

VIM

I'm looking at org-mode for getting organized and drafting various projects.
Should I do it?
An if so, emacs or vim?
(with the idea to try it out solely for org mode but if I like it, I'll make iot my main editor (currently Kate for mostly python and latexilla for err... pascal))

Weird.
There's a perfect, blueprint thread for an editor war, but it just gets 55 replies. Even the NodeJS fags didn't really get going.
Jow Forums, I'm dissapoint!

>I can't into the keybindings
There's no shame in using evil mode, user. Emacs can be a better vim than vim.

>Should I do it?
Yes. Org-mode is the reason I got into emacs as well and I can't recommend it enough. The learning curve is long, steep and full of frustration, but if you persist and customize both emacs and org to suit your workflow and your particular type of autism, it can become the single most important piece of software you've ever used.

>There's no shame in using evil mode, user. Emacs can be a better vim than vim.
But it seems weird to install emacs, solely to use it as vim… but vim keybindings, while seeming much harder to memorize and even more autistic, appear to be more ergonomic than emacs. (though I have ctrl and alt switched, and thanks to thinkpad, ctrl and fn have the correct order, so it's not that bad)

> but if you persist and customize both emacs and org to suit your workflow and your particular type of autism,
But I'm not autistic… (not much, I guess) and my machine is already quite customized (I always just got a load of WTFs, when people use it…) and I don't want to make it even "worse".

>vim keybindings, while seeming much harder to memorize and even more autistic
Debatable, using C-p C-n C-f C-b for navigation in emacs is peak autism in comparison to vi home row.

I couldn't stand that when I tried to get into emacs. I know it can be changed, but then other key binds need to be verified that they won't be overwritten, etc

But at least it's control-something, which kinda follows every other accepted pattern, no matter if OS or "app", whereas just using letters without anything is really autistic. AFAIK, only Opera does this (or did, don't know if they killed it for good, or if the fact that I can't close shit anymore with just a C is intentional in their further quest for normy acceptance.)

I wanna try out emacs and vim.
So emacs is pretty obvious, there's just an emacs package, but vim? I have vim-X11 and vim-enhanced. Which one is the standard version?

>literal mnemonics for revious, ext, orwards, ackwards
>work in shell and all programs utilizing GNU Readline
>"peak autism" compared to switching modes and using keys from ADM-3A terminal keyboard from 40 years ago

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>vim-enhanced

>vim
>VIsual editor iMproved
>vim-enhanced
>VIsual editor iMproved eNhaced
>vimn
>wimn
>women
it's the females choice!!!!
reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

how many months does it take to customize keybinds on emacs? i want to try it but vim having good default binds is quite appealing.

Switching from vim to Emacs is painful, but it isn't as bad as people are saying.

no it's runtime for Emacs Lisp programming language

>tfw you want to use org-mode but don't want to install emacs
Is there a standalone version of org-mode?

How would that even work? It's called org-MODE because it's an Emacs mode.

>lietral mnemonics
Which are inconvenient as shit, enjoy your rsi

I'd use emacs, but first I'd have to get one of those "cheat sheet" mousepads.

I sometimes have to just vi, as it is the only thing to use in some cases, and it's just fucking horrible.

And seriously, if I'll just edit some files, nano or such is where it is at. Simple to use.

ITT: absolute whoppers who cannot into any kind of lisp, still using poverty-tier languages, >implying vim is even comparable to emacs when the extensibility of emacs is taken into account.

Also, FYI, if you're complaining about whether a package is 10/100/1000 mb in size and using that to determine whether the package has any worth you are literally the biggest autist I have ever seen. Modern hard drives are fucking huge.

Not as inconvenient as reaching the Esc key to change to normal mode in order to be able to move the fucking cursor around.
>inb4 muh remapped CapsLock

Let me state it clearly, I prefer emacs to vim, but advocating default emacs keymap is some serious mental retardation.

>org-mode
>Org mode
>orgmode
>
Damn, so many anons talking about it. Is it really to solution to being productive and organized?
Can I also use it mobile?
I often have the "problem" that I have some random Ideas/brainfarts for the projects I'm working on while communting to work/home or even when I'm /out/, and just being able to type them into my phone with the context around it would help.

>Can I also use it mobile?

Orgzly on Android is pretty good.

Use Nano

I wish I knew emacs
It can be quite aesthetic when configured

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Unironically, no, they're not a meme.

I'm a professional writer. I do my writing almost exclusively in org-mode for longer texts where I can use an indirect buffer to have an editable outline. Move the headings around, and the actual text changes.

It's significantly better, easier, and faster than copying, looking for the right spot to paste, and then pasting my chapters every time.

The one exception to this workflow is when I'm collaborating with my editors in real time, in which case I use Google Docs with speech recognition, so it's easier on my hands.

Lisp is easy once you give it a few minutes. Very intuitive, and I'll be damned if a child would have trouble grasping it.

I can't rightly say I've ever seen an easier language to learn to code in.

And no, it's not about not using the mouse; I still use it in emacs - it's about the functionality. I have it set up precisely how I need it, and it saves me hours of work every week, particularly in editing.

Being only mildly acquainted with using CLI (I grew up on windows XP), I have found emacs to be very easy, as long as one has a bit of an open mind.

I think the issue is that most people equate "pretty" with "good", and get completely freaked out when they actually need to tinker around for a minute or two.

That's a thing I've been meaning to try and get working. I've been unable to get TRAMP to work. My main writing box is Emacs running on Windows 10, and despite having the TRAMP server started, I can't seem to be able to access it through TRAMP over LAN.

It's been quite disheartening.

But it has Tetris.
Arguably the only Tetris that I can be bothered running, but still.

This.

False.

>Python
Gimme Perl, I'd rather die with honor.

Yes. Getting org-mode sync with Google Calendar (yeah, I know, botnet etc) is a bit tricky, but works flawlessly.

>The learning curve is long, steep and full of frustration
No, it's not. I've been using it in its out-of-the-box state for months now, and it's been pretty much perfect for all my needs.

Pretty sure you can find a package that does it for you.

There's some alternatives, like workflowy and stuff, but I've personally found them very wanting.

>Is it really to solution to being productive and organized?
No, but it can be if you have the slightest bit of discipline to actually use it.
At the end of the day, all that matters is that you use the tools at your disposal to the best of your ability.
Some tools are better suited for a particular task than other tools.
Emacs is excellent for massive codebases/ long-form text editing.
I would find it rather silly to use for changing one or two files at a time, however.

how bout spacemacs brethrens? is it a good way into the emacs world?

/Kloss

Black pill: Any time saved by using VIM over another editor is lost when correcting mistakes made because you forgot to enter Insert mode before typing.

Nano is okay for very basic key-value configuration file editing, but it's a lot more cumbersome once you get to structured text. Be it programming or description languages.

It's definitely worth putting in the effort to learn some tricks on vim or kak or emacs or whatever for these.

>I'm too stupid to use vim, therefore it is inferior