Why are there no good visual programming software?

Because the only purpose of those languages is not to get people into programming, but allow those who have no programming knowledge to still be able to do stuff.
People that are going to get or are into programming have no real interest learning or using these kind of languages.

No, it's extremely shit. Visually dragging stuff the way you show in OP is retarded, unintuitive and doesn't teach you anything. Something like Warcraft 3 trigger editor is much better since it's basically how code would be formatted except it's easier to figure out what's what.
There's a reason programming isn't taught like that in schools, it's terrible. It's better to let kids learn qbasic/logo/pascal first.

There are plenty, but you have to tell the programs what you want to make. They're called compilers.

>I'm too much of a brainlet retard for drag and drop
your autism does not counter the OP

>another non-argument

Attached: 1537145084765.jpg (255x233, 29K)

Why would you want that? If someone needs a visual language to start, they are either a 8 years old child or a literal retard. The later will never make it and children should wait until their learning ability is high enough, assuming it ever happens.

this is such fucking bullshit. with visual programming, you can teach them all the basic fundamentals of programming, teach them to divide problems into programming related tasks so they know how to tackle them and how to build a solution. then the transition to normal programming is easy as just learning the language since they would already know the concepts.

what do you have against teaching kids about programming?

To add to this, if you want someone under 10 years old to start getting interested into programming then there's a better solution: youtube.com/watch?v=CQNx4l_Mg5c

Why can't they do that with words? Are you talking about teaching kids to program before they can read?

because it's better to teach the core concepts of programming as a whole than to get bogged down with language specific semantics and shit.

Not the user you replied to but
>what is that ?
visual programming
>how does it kill the argument ?
look at it

Traditionally, you learn programming by taking both algorithmic courses and other courses with more practical stuff.
Visual programming doesn't have its place there, there isn't a single course I've completed in my college that would have made it better.
There is however, one course where I had to use one, in high school. It made sense cause we had to do stuff but noone had programming knowledge.

So yea, if you want to learn programming, Visual Programming is shit. If you want to do stuff without any knowledge, it's great.

give the name and say why it's better than the alternatives.

Kinda hard to do pair programming when you're not allowed within 3000 feet of children or public schools.

I don't remember the name, it had "Flow" in it, it was to program some microcontroller from a manufacturer I forgot too.
I think you can guess why it was better to use some IDE with visual programming that configures most of the low level shit.

>autistic pedo
okay, got it.

>to program some microcontroller from a manufacturer
so it was for a specific task, which makes it useless. what else do you recommend?

>inb4 something like this would be easy to compromise and you don't want people running code on your machine
>20 posts, this wasn't one of them

>something like this would be easy to compromise
no it wouldn't

...

>no emoji support
Newfag outta here, what a shitty site!

stay out, homo

How does it make it useless ? It was a pluridisciplinar project. We wanted to have some LEDs drawing pictures with persistence of vision.
Figuring out this shit, wiring, soldering the LEDs etc... was already a pain in the ass. So thanks god we had an easy tool to make it for us at the time.
Because I wrote embedded software in C as well as VHDL and FPGA in college, and it fucking sucks.

too specific and limited. you can't just make anything you want with it.

Pajeet? Is that you?

>oh boy, let's use the stale reddit meme again

The world is not composed of pajeets and mutts. But I know that because you mutts don't use VHDL, you think that everyone who does is from the third world. Guess again maybe you'll get it right after a hundred more.

A visual language will have its own weird semantics to get bogged down in. There's no way around that.
The most important thing for learning is to have something you actually want to achieve. So long as visual languages can't actually DO anything interesting, they won't be able to offer that motivation. A kid would probably learn better programming minecraft mods (as confusing as they would be) or w/e because they would actually get some payoff from it.

The real problem is that almost all development environments are complicated and fiddly to set up.

>A visual language will have its own weird semantics to get bogged down in.
not really though, and it will be nowhere near the amount of any specific language.

>So long as visual languages can't actually DO anything interesting, they won't be able to offer that motivation.
and where did you pull that from? your ass? the example in OP can literally be used to create full blown AAA games with.

Yes because thats what we need more codemonkeys who cant make shit properly.

are you too autistic to realize people would move onto more advanced things after learning the basic?

It's LabVIEW, eternally shilled by NI as the greatest invention since the transistor.

Max/MSP

>Max/MSP
>for music and multimedia developed and maintained by San Francisco-based software company Cycling '74. Over its more than thirty-year history, it has been used by composers, performers, software designers, researchers, and artists to create recordings, performances, and installations.
wait what?

Because manipulating text is easier.

Think about it, software development workflows are changing at a breakneck pace, everyone and their dog has a new idea for a linter or typechecker or editor. If visual editing was truly better, wouldn't someone have made a visual code editor suitable for enterprise use?

>manipulating text is easier.
learning language specific semantics is hard though and if you have no knowledge of programming, learning programming concepts and workflow is easier when you don't have to fuck with dumb semantics.

Max/msp allows you to interface with data and written programs to produce output. It's very cool. It has many applications, but is intented for multimedia production.

Let me put it this way: when learning a programming language or rather anything at all, for the first time, you're only a beginner once. After mastering the basics, you're no longer a beginner.

Which would you rather prefer?
>A tool easy to use for beginners but unwieldy and clunky for non-beginners
>A tool hard for beginners to use but intuitive and expressive for non-beginners

This is not a false dichotomy, these are legitimately the only two choices you have when designing a new programming system. A beginner can struggle through a tutorial or two and learn the semantics once, and then they are completely set for the future. But if they learn a system that was designed for beginners, they will find it clunky and annoying after learning how to use it, and will move on to a different system altogether.

This is why editors like vim and emacs are still popular after all these years, non-beginners simply prefer tools that can let them work easier even if there is an initial learning curve.

can you show me some cool examples? the name (max) is too generic for me to find good stuff without getting results from other totally irrelevant software.

I can visually program in a text editor, I see the letters and assemble them into computer programs yes.

>I'm too stupid to know what the OP meant

Attached: 1532697580763.jpg (645x729, 81K)

>
this game was made using visual programming.
where is yours?
rb-d2.tumblr.com/

Attached: tumblr_pfnqt0QaM71umqy05o5_1280.jpg (1280x720, 198K)

>using visual programming.
based. what exactly?

unreal 4's blueprints, the same thing as OP's image

do you know of any solid sources for learning blueprints? like more advanced stuff and not just the basics? many nodes don't even have documentation.

not really, my man. most what i learned was from googling around and general programming knowledge. youtube also has a bunch of content but it's shit because it's in video format.
it's not the best process, they should really make their documentation meatier.
that said, it's 100% worth learning, i strongly recommend it. in many cases it beats using unreal's c++

> being so brainlet you need drag and drop logic blocks to do basic programming
why even program?

Attached: bl23.jpg (2048x2040, 115K)

>dumb mongoloid doesn't get the point of visual programming

If you think about it is odd the an operating system has moved away from text based IO but programming languages persisted throughout the year in text form.

I am not claiming either is better but most OS's these day are graphical based.

Autists can't handle things, people and opinions that differ from their world view. This thread is a perfect example.

>"Nooooo, bros, he can't get away with it!!!!1 He must write like we do! reeeee"

That's because there isn't one.

Attached: 1438911765576.jpg (548x294, 169K)

Labview is not good?

Try max/msp op. It's a visual programming environment. If you're into music production / Ableton it's even better you can make your own instruments via code / the M4L API.

>I am not claiming either is better but most OS's these day are graphical based.
And yet the only OS left behind in text land is strangely popular with programmers. MS even gave in and created powershell after decades of treating the CLI like a legacy afterthought.
It's almost like text is fundamentally useful for development. Or maybe the invention of written language was kind of important for our species.

Go ahead dude, make the next killer app in LabVIEW, no one is trying to stop you. Show those "autists" and their "syntax" what you can do.

Nothing wrong in either, you must support Trump?

based agdg shill

No need to interject your bullshit into the mix. Linux is popular among system programmers for blatantly obvious reasons. Application programmers favor windows, android, and apple any day over linux...

>Go ahead dude, make the next killer app in LabVIEW, no one is trying to stop you. Show those "autists" and their "syntax" what you can do.
Thanks mate, I needed that.

Because visual programming software can never be good, nor can it ever be more efficient than typing.

Limit your problem domain and visual programming will actually start making sense as the UI is designed to solve it.

Max/Pure Data is well known for Audio as already mentioned, you can even make Pd patches for Android with MobMuPlat which is killer for niche mobile audio applications.

luna-lang.org
Looks promising for data processing, though again it has a data focus and it's build around representing data while OP might be looking for something more generic.

Well, i managed to program an orbit propagator from scratch using LabVIEW using their control system toolbox and expose a small REST API for it. It's quite OK if you follow the guidelines from their Static Analyzer tools and follow the QMH stuff.

Attached: 550375600_1280x720.jpg (1280x720, 62K)

If you are making a virtual synthesizer, there is.

what do you think about my visual programming hardware Jow Forums?

Attached: startup-593327_1920.jpg (1920x1280, 294K)

That's a PCB blueprint. Not programming.

Attached: tumblr_pgcyvxXPyj1s5mt7a_400.png (344x358, 174K)

kek, what a moron.

I had a similar experience with Dreamweaver. Confusing shitty interface. Was easier to just learn a little HTML and use it in split mode. Some people believe so strongly that a GUI is easier, they won't really think about it anymore. A GUI that is new to you involves essentially randomly clicking around. It's not more straightforward than a text interface at all.

>randomly clicking around
>stuff happens

>randomly typing
>?

>now even GOOD CODE can look like spaghetti
jesus op. it's like a personal hell.

based

I make all my websites iN MS word. Great program 10/10 for website building

>luna-lang.org
fucking based, thanks user.
>Max
can you post a good video about this or good examples?

Ok, I've just had an awesome idea.
Someone should make a VR enabled visual programming language, so instead of the shit in the OP's picture, you could actually organize your code in 3 dimensions.

Someone, make the logo. I'm lazy.
But seriously, if you wanna steal my idea and become a billionaire, feel free.

so...as a stepping stone.
to real languages.
existing visual programming sucks because the concept sucks. sufficiently complicated code is made illegible.

minecraft

>mouse aim (experimental)
What a fucking world we live in, where using a mouse to aim is an experimental feature

Oh shit.
Yeah, like that, but less retarded.

you know how people say 'in the future everyone will have to learn to program!'
node-red is the only thing I can imagine where you could have like a airplane hanger full of former construction workers and soccer moms doing something vaguely useful with 'visual programming'

you can setup a chat service that works over the network just by dragging two mqtt nodes in, and then stick the ouptut on a display with a display node, or email it to yourself; or send the entire thing through email, or tweet it out, or whatever

Attached: 2018-10-08--1539051865_751x640_scrot.png (751x640, 72K)

Fundamentally broken programming paradigm.

Since the beginning of modern computing people have been trying to turn flow charts into executable programs. You end up with all the same problems of regular programming, but then add on trying to layout a horrendous mess of boxes and arrows. Then you have to maintain that mess.

The most visual programming products today are things like labview and simulink. They allow for simple data acquisition and flow control. You can barely do that. God help you if you have to maintain that shit.

If you go through the trouble of learning a design language of boxes and arrows, it's simple enough to encode them with character tokens within a grammar.

bump for informative thread

That entire window worth of "code" could be easily represented by 5 lines of python or c

Because it takes longer. It's much faster to type.

Attached: 1.gif.gif (300x330, 610K)

Blueprints is great if you want to grind computers to a halt and run like shit

I'm actually quite satisfied with Eclipse when it comes to Java

Unreal engine already comes with many features, for 3D, and the blueprints are still more limited then knowing C++. If it's so great how come no one exept for a few compnaies make their games in Unreal.

Cool. Can you show any of your projects, user.

>I have no idea why a visual interface would help beginners.
It doesn't. The point of visual programming is to accelerate the speed of your project and is generally used for people without patience. Programming from the ground up requires a lot of work and a whole team.

Based and aesthetic

>slaps floor
>slaps desk

>spaghetti
Dude I can trace what is going on. You must be new to the coding gig.

Because the concept of visual programming is a dead-end.