Will we ever get to a stage where iGPUs practically kill the GPU market?
Will we ever get to a stage where iGPUs practically kill the GPU market?
Tyler Taylor
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Sebastian Davis
Not for a while
Daniel Young
No, a discrete card will always have more potential for performance. IGP is limited by shared die area and shared power consumption. Discrete GPUs aren't.
Adam Perez
It would take 5 years for a Igpu to catch up to 1080 performance
Ryder Evans
when HBM memory gets cheap enough that AMD/Intel are able to put it on the CPU package, that's when the discreet GPU market will be significantly disrupted.
HBM on die will allow companies to create small form factor pc's that should comfortably play 1080p/1440p games for a relatively inexpensive price.
The gaming market will find these small form factor pc's to be an attractive proposition relative to the ridiculously high prices that Nvidia is trying to force down the throats of the PC gamer.
Mason Phillips
Probably but HBM is expensive right now.
Luke Robinson
HBM only feeds the beast, the issue is die area and power first and foremost. Neither AMD nor intel are interested in creating a huge monolithic APU for the consumer market. Motherboards would need an entirely new standard to deal with sustained average power draw over 200w under load. The chip would need its own socket.
It'd be an expensive part to fab, it'd have incredibly niche appeal.
Wyatt Sullivan
hbm on die already exists in the form of hades canyon. Today, this nuc can be had for $700
With shrinking process technology and increased volume production of HBM i can see a simlar nuc being sold for less than $300 in the future. When this happens, the demand for discreet gpu's will decrease siginificantly.
Jacob Thomas
This, vega despite running 10-20% faster than the gtx 1070 still significantly consumes more power.
You're insane if you think you'll get anywhere near that performance for $300. Maybe a Athlon 200GE NUC at best.
John Anderson
>on die
No. Its on package, user. And this isn't a monolithic die. Its two separate parts in MCM. It has its own BGA package. Average load power consumption is around 130w, and it can hit 200w no problem. For all that complexity and cost its barely competitive with a discrete GTX 1060.
Further die shrinks will make this level of performance more tame and accessible to the mainstream, but its always going to be far, far behind the performance of a discrete GPU. A large APU is never going to be viable. Theres never going to be any real market for them.
Daniel Ramirez
The current 2200G and 2400G are already cannibalizing low end discrete GPU sales. It's going to kill the likes of 1030 and 1050 leaving the mid to high range mostly alone.
Cooper Lewis
Only if game requirements stagnate. Technology doesn't just advance for iGPUs, it advances for dedicated cards as well. There will always be a large gap between them simply due to basic things like die size, TDP, cooling capacity and price.
Currently there is also no practical advantage to making a high-end MCM APU or something. This would increase mobo price due to requiring much better power delivery and serves little practical purpose. It might be useful for niche devices in small form factors (or custom APUs for things like consoles) but as a general-purpose thing all it does is restrict a user's upgrade path: you can't upgrade CPU and GPU separately. It makes sense at the low end, because you buy the device and use it as is since you're not looking for high performance, beyond that it wouldn't really be a logical purchase.
Dylan Martin
The market for discreet gpu's is decreasing on a yearly basis. This shrinking market are forcing nvidia to over inflate their pricing in order to maintain their profit margins. With ever increasing prices on the horizon, i believe that apu's have a strong chance of stealing away significant market share away from discreet gpus. APU's are all currently bandwidth starved. Adding cheap hbm will mitigate many of the performance shortcomings, and will be an attractive option to price conscience buyers in the future.
Eli Taylor
To be fair that's what custom console APUs are. Only catch is they're TDP throttled to ~150 watts max so that 4.2 theoretical tflop may never be achieved.
Nathan Myers
only if consumers utilize the power of future discrete cards
Leo Edwards
Tbh amd could have released a PS4 (pro) equivalent of their APU and it would be a good enough replacement for up to 1070ish levels of graphics, considering console cooling and power limitations are removed.
Matthew Russell
The PS4 Pro is roughly akin to Polaris with substantially lower clocks. The Polaris RX480/580 only competes with the GTX 1060. It couldn't touch 1070 level performance.
You can't get 36CU to compete with the 1070 when it takes the Vega56 to do so.
Lucas Kelly
Literally never.
Anthony James
To be fair: if a game is heavily optimized to use all the GNC cores efficiently then the 580 comes dangerously close to 1070 performance. Not that I have faith that more than 1 ot 2 devs will do this.
Leo Barnes
Depends on whether it's more important for you to have high throughput or low latency.
Lincoln Clark
Possibly. There's a threshold to which further gains are merely marginal gains.
Currently it hasn't been reached, but there is such a threshold to both GPU/CPU side.
The ~$150 CPU ~$200 GPU market for an optimal 1080p experience.
Camden Moore
Which is why I said "up to".
Still, 580 would be fine for a LOT of people. And now there's nothing even remotely close to that in terms of apus.