Jow Forums 2012

Python is okay, it's just overhyped. Its main feature is being tolerable/okay for a large variety of tasks, but it doesn't actually do most of them well. New programmers like it because they are afraid of learning new languages, and want to use one language for everything. This is mostly possible with Python even if it will restrict you in the long term.

Javascript is an even worse example of this problem.

It's extremely inconsistent for them to not be there.

>python3 is the shit.
ftfy

print is a function. functions have arguments in ()

like shuffling the standard library in hindsight it shouldn't have been done

This is a good example of why people shouldn't allow Jow Forums to form opinions for them. Most of the time it's just a tech popularity contest. Use what gets solid results and tell the rest to fuck off. Try shit yourself before letting the self-proclaimed degenerates decide for you.

A huge problem with the Python 3 upgrade was it broke a LOT of big libraries. It took a while for them to be fixed and updated, but the scarring in the community never fully healed.

>But Jow Forums can come to a consensus...
What Jow Forums have you been browsing?

>people still whining about python 3
Literally everything except legacy shit supports python 3 now. Come on.

>What went wrong?
It got popular.

the internet in general, including Jow Forums, realized static typing is good

also lmao __underscores__ everywhere

Print was a statement in python 2 and they made it a function in python 3.

The problem is more that they continued to develop python 2 after releasing python 3. Python 3 was released 10 years ago and python 2 is still getting updates. If they want 3 to be the version people use then they should depreciate 2, but they're not.
And, frankly, there are some things about 2 that I just like more, such as it spitting out an integer when I do integer division instead of spitting out a float unless I do a double slash. There was no reason to change that and it just potentially makes problems when you port stuff from 2 to 3 or 3 to 2.

Jow Forums in a nutshell.

i like python, but then again i'm a newby here

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It's the same when anything becomes popular enough.

It became a popular language for people to learn, such that websites get flooded with trivial questions about it that it starts to get annoying.

>Python wasn't popular in 2012

>mfw I now have to change all my code from int(foo / bar) to foo // bar so people who review my code won't think I'm a retard.

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It's only gotten more popular since though.

tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

I don't think the problem is really popularity as much as the whole Python 2 vs Python 3 thing that went on for years. Jow Forums seemed to be on the 2 side and when the community moved on to Python 3 Jow Forums moved on from Python.

Perhaps. I've only ever done little scripts in Python on my own time or for uni classes so I'm not in the know.

Speaking of hated languages, while studying compsci I earn my extra income from developing a java swing program (lel).

Dynamic typing fucking sucks in big projects.

I have a lot of literature that is still relevant today that decided to use Python for a lot a simple illustrative examples. Of course they didn't put the Python version number because they didn't anticipate them breaking basic things about the language. Further more, not everyone writing Python 3 these days bothers to label it Python 3. So as someone who doesn't use it very often it becomes this huge hassle and pain the ass trying to remember all the little things that broke when you are supposed to be just typing up a small program to help you learn something else.

Python is not the right choice for big projects, and that's okay. No language is perfect for every task.

people whining about python3 are like the highschoolers whining about "but when are we ever going to use this???? in literally every class"

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many build system depends on python2, especially google's.

Python is useful but I just don't enjoy it.

I mostly program in 2.7, but holy fuck do i hate integer division. Early on, before i knew about future imports, i constantly had to ensure that either my denominator or numerator was a float by either adding a .0 or float() to avoid unintended integer division. This inconsistent behavior from the / operator was fucking shit.

integer division is great if you have static types, but if your types are dynamic as in python it is as you say - absolute aids

Nothing went wrong, this entire site is just full of contrarians. It's always been this way.

Fucking
T H I S

Show me a JIT for Python 3.
It seems like Python will die in 2020, with no JIT to give acceptable perf, and people who refuse to make their code compatible with Python 3.
I'll stick with node.js as my go to tool for quick scripts.

>What is Numba

>This inconsistent behavior from the / operator was fucking shit.
What are you talking about? It's being completely consistent. You feed it integers, you get an integer result. You feed it float(s), you get a float result.
It's no different from how the other operators work.

you do not always know whether your objects are integers in python apriori

>needs explicit JIT decorators

You should.
And if you want a float result then you can always ensure it by casting one side as a float.
In Python3 it is the literal definition of inconsistent behavior because other operators will give integer results when both sides are integers and float results when there is one or more floats involved. Only division works differently.

python wasn't popular then
Jow Forums hates everything normies like

thank dog I got memed into it then though, I got to be a python pro and now that's it's in mad demand I have a high paying job

In python2 you have to keep using casts everywhere if you want real division, as there is no real division operator (though you can still force integer division with // even with real operands)
in python3 you get a real result if you use / and you get an integer result if you use //

you can use the operator that has the behaviour you want consistently applied, independently of whether your operands are floats or ints

Jow Forums is just bunch of contrarian faggots
Python become mainstream and Jow Forums started hating it

AWS Greengrass doesn't. And it's a new fucking product, released last year.

Bingo Bango Bongo

Python has optional type annotations from 3.5 on

def someshit(input:str)->str
return (input + " is a faggot")

i also like pyhton

>Show me X
>Here's X
>I MEANT Y, SHOW ME Y.
Keep trying user.

I'm just saying that it's shit and it defeats the purpose. At that point you might write machine code and optimize it by hand.

>@jit
>Equivalent to writing machine code.
Yikes!

How is bitching about something easy to learn and understand concept with many apparent use cases, the same thing as bitching about learning something challenging with a subjectively small use case???

2.7 will be the last 2.x version and will only receive maintenance updates.

You want high performance for "quick scripts"?

/thread

Python is associated with basedboys so the Jow Forums newfaggots who now make up the majority of the site automatically hate it

Yes, I want a state of art language with state of art environment to run it in. Python and its runtimes are neither.

Jow Forums is a hivemind.

This. Also breaking backwards compatibility for no other reason than small syntax changes.

Python3 was already around and actively used in 2012.
In fact, I learnt how to program using Python3 in 2012.

I didn't like it in 2012 and I still don't like it now.
Granted flask is pretty neat if I want to quickly throw together a DYNAMIC AND REACTIVE webpage in an environment that doesn't have ruby.

> would you use it to make a printer driver
I member our team lead programmer migrated to Ubuntu and wrote himself a driver in Python because HP didn't supply a driver for it.

Commit replace master/slave terminology merged to branch master.

but it prints bacon!

Did that hurt your feefees my speshul little polflake?

Don't you see how retarded the self regulation is? >removed master/slave
>merged to master
There's also no scientific evidence that this correctness does cause less people to join in on the project. Or that changing it does promote more people to join in. I'm 100% sure that no single programmer who actually contributed anything useful to it ever thought of that paradigm in a negative way nor about the connotation.

And they aren't actually checked

cry harder

Literally couldn't care less, OP asked a question, I answered.

>I member
Please stop talking like a drooling retard

with polshit yeah

How do you even write a printer driver? Like how does it work? And can you do it in 2 hours or less?

I recently had an issue at work where a printer didn't have any available drivers for Windows 10, and it took me 2 hours to get it to work. If I learn how to write a driver myself, that could be useful

Ecosystem is extremely fragmented between version 2 and 3 for some reason (I'm not that much interested in history), people still seem to be writing new code in python2 and because of that, major GNU+Linux distros defaults their interpreters to python2. I recently needed to run a tool that used python2 while my distro defaults to python3 for its interpreter, and couldn't get it to run easily because the shebang didn't use env so I couldn't trick it into using my PATH variable to load the interpreter.

Dynamic strong typing is dumb because it means your program can crash but only at runtime while a statically strongly typed language will refuse to compile and a weakly typed dynamic lang like javascript will run until you hit the corner case where everything crashes and burn, so what's the appeal? You either want to know if your program is correct as soon as possible (static strong type) or as late as possible (weak dynamic), so what niche does dynamic strong typing fills?

90% of projects written in python are amateurish, barely held together with some tape, slow pieces of shit and the remaining 10% are just using python to script a library written in another, better language. I think people saying python is good only ever used these 10% and never made anything beyond toy programs.
Having a huge community behind it to implement wrappers to every C lib out there doesn't make it a good language, but people seem to be conflating the two.

I have never written a line of python code, but even I can tell that it's shit.
There's no other language where installing a set of dependencies can break your package manager and/or your whole python environment.
There's no other language that has my existing programs break every two months when a new python version comes out. With no other language have I opened a source file that begins with a comment saying how it should work with python 2 and 3 and then proceed to not work with 3 and two months later stop working with python2 as well.

>Ecosystem is extremely fragmented between version 2 and 3 for some reason
Because people are retarded. Python3 is objectivey a better language that fixed major flaws present in Python 2.

>major GNU+Linux distros defaults their interpreters to python2
I don't understand this either desu

> what niche does dynamic strong typing fills?
Python tries to stay out of your way while giving you all you need to implement strong type checking.
It allows for rapid, efficient development, (assuming you aren't a noob), without allowing for clusterfuck retarded code behavior that's possible in PHP or javascript (in javascript 50 + true equals 51).

PyPy, it's pretty much a drop-in replacement, there was also Jython for 2 but nobody used it

>people are retarded
No shit sherlock.

>I don't understand this either desu
See above.

>giving you all you need to implement strong type checking.
What does that even mean? Throwing an error at runtime when I try to add an integer to a string is useless.

>It allows for rapid, efficient development
Languages and frameworks that claim exactly that are a dime a dozen.

>in javascript 50 + true equals 51
C and C++ do that too, does that make them bad languages made of clusterfucks of retarded code?
You can write retarded code in any language, my problem with python is that it exists when there are languages that are better than it in every single possible use cases, it's just yet another language people are hyped about for no valid reason, except the babby duck syndrome/stockholm/technical debt.

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Why the fuck would anyone like integer division in python 2? That was one of the most retarded things about the language.

yeah that was pretty stupid

I graduated from university and had to use it in production.

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Jow Forums is a bunch of try hard college kids who mistake having passed programming I in python for having actually mastered python. They assume everyone programming in python couldn't program in CPP which likely came next in their course work.

Having only done trivial programming tasks they berate simplicity instead of desire it. To them programming is still personal instead of useful.

In 2012 python was probably not as widely used or shilled in introductory courses.

Unlike most popular things, python is actually good and deserves the recognition
Unfortunately being popular means retards and trannies try to make their mark on it

We moved on.

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I'm too stupid to learn Python.

I can't handle not having braces.

Python 3 is more widely used. It is faster than Python 2.7. Many of the most popular packages no longer support 2.7 today and even fewer will in a year when 2.7 is sunsetted.

Python is great for whipping up some tool or something in relatively short time without having to fuck about with reinventing the wheel.

Jow Forums has, and always will be contrarian. This is the anti-normie club. And normies have started using python much more since 2012

Get with the times granddad. Legacy Python is slower and doesn't even ship with most Linux distros these days.

GG is targeted to help old projects move from ec2 to lambda...

>>> import bacon
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'bacon'
>mfw

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>Jow Forums has, and always will be contrarian.
No it's not

>PyPy
It's python 2 only.

At that point why not just use a statically typed language? Python is good for some stuff, people get excited because Hello World takes fewer lines than in Java or C++, but for bigger projects you don't gain much.

>static typing fake jit like Julia