Well /g? which of this growing behemoths in back-end webdev is better?

>SIMULTANEOUS multithreading
It has a GIL. Only one thread can actually be doing stuff at any given time.
Same shit with Node. One thread can take over if another thread is waiting on an async operation, but two threads can't be doing synchronous operations at the same time.

youtube.com/watch?v=i2fhNVQPb5I

Hen companies like netflix or paypal ay they use node they mean that they use it to serve the frontend. None of the heavy processing is done with node, it's all java

Becoming a node developers dooms your career

A bloated mess of complete garbage.

They are on Java because They are old as fuck, if those sites were built today they'de use NODE and something like GO or C#, not Java.

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If I had to use Java for anything I'd switch careers.

No they wouldn't because Java has better performance and better access to important infrastructure like hadoop, elasticsearch, spark, kafka

You first year cs students have no clue where the money is. Java has only become more important in recent years.

>Java is slow as shit compared to other languages
>ITS OK CAUSE JAVA IS RELIABLE AND EVERYWHERE SO IT DOESN"T MATTER XDD
>Java is faster for web-shit than some other alternatives
>LMAO BTFO WHY WOULD YOU USE THIS POPULAR AS FUCK THING WHEN YOU CAN USE FASTER JAVA

I fucking hate javatards

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only retards say that java is slow, dumb webshit. Enjoy getting replaced within a year by another bootcamp webshit while I'm building the actual important parts of systems and get paid a premium for it.

>Java has only become more important in recent years
>Job offers have gone down

They haven't.

> Java decreased in popularity by about 6,000 job postings in 2018 compared to 2017, but is still extremely well-established...

>source: my ass

90% of Javatard speed arguments rely on some trivial benchmark where they allocate 64GB of RAM to the JVM so that it doesn't need to do garbage collection during the hello world tier benchmark.

In reality, the JVM isn't actually that fast because it needs to do a fuckton of garbage collection constantly because most Java libraries create objects like crazy and abuse runtime reflection which is notoriously slow. Spring is a good example of a disgusting library that does both.

Reminder now that .NET is starting to become more open Java is finished

>in reality java isn't fast
look at the techempower benchmarks you fool. Why do you think amazon's and mastercards and goldman sachs entire architectures is built with it, even new projects? No one forces you to use trash like spring. Use vert.x

Reminder that no one uses .net because it has nothing useful for large scale distributed systems.

Funny that you mention Techempower since they do exactly what was talked about in that post. They actually give 256GB of RAM to the JVM. Amazing that a language is fast when it can simply allocate like crazy and never clean up the memory! Also the Java examples are hilariously optimized and verbose. Could Javatards be anymore pathetic?

ASP.NET Core

This. It's far better than anything in Java.

literally anything is better than django

There is literally nothing wrong with DJANGO. Prove me wrong

Depends on what you want to do. For a more traditional website Django will get you finished in a fraction of the time.

so what you are saying is that other languages cant compete because they dont utilize the servers resources, ok. Thanks for playing. Also the JVM isnt using 256 gb in any of the benchmarks

What the fuck are "non-traditional websites". Every website is the same

If you heavily use web sockets or server sent-events there are better options. If you don't need either Django is great.

6000 as in six thousand as in just a mere 6 with four zeros?

Nobody else is trying to game trivial benchmarks as much as Javatards. Sad that Java isn't even the fastest in most cases.

>the others arent trying
Yeah sure, keep believing that. Also Java is consistently top 5 in all of them.

It's maybe a little funky to set up but Autobahn works well with my Django projects.

>>Java is slow as shit compared to other languages
But that's not even remotely true.
>In reality, the JVM isn't actually that fast because it needs to do a fuckton of garbage collection constantly
Also untrue, and Java 11 is getting even better GC with ~10ms GC pause times.

> vert.x code for all benchmarks is over 1500 lines
> Python using Flask implements the exact same benchmarks in 150 lines

Why is Java so shitty?

>python nowhere near top
>java consistently top

why is python so shit? Also verbosity is good for maintainability but a newfag wouldn't know that

>Enjoy getting replaced within a year by another bootcamp webshit while I'm building the actual important parts of systems and get paid a premium for it.

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Add one non-trivial database query and the speed difference between them is negligible. The Python code is also far more readable and there's 10x less of it.

You've also never worked on a site that has more traffic than what Python can handle on a single server with a single gunicorn worker.

This is a shit comparison. Django is a full framework for python, node is a runtime. Python has several different frameworks and models available. A better comparison would be between Tornado and Node.

nice projection, but you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. python doesent even have async db access

But both Django and Python do the same shit

Shit. Meant Django and Node

>pisscript
vs
>python

python wins

> python doesent even have async db access

asyncpg exists and is used heavily by Instagram. Meanwhile, the only asynchronous Postgres Java library is actually written in Scala, is incomplete and is used nowhere outside of trivial benchmarks.

>he isn't programming in Lisp or a Lisp dialect
chuckled. at least don't call yourselves programmers.

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I shoulda said no decent async pg driver. Clearly its shit or you'd actually see python getting similar performance as github.com/reactiverse/reactive-pg-client
But you don't.

Django and Node don't do the same shit. Node is much much more minimalist, you really need something like Express to even get started with it. Django has everything built in for boilerplate web applications. Django is great for very cookie cutter applications but it is utter and complete shit if you need something highly custom. It is shit at websockets and having any really complex functionality is a pain in the ass. Not to mention the ORM is also complete shit. Node offers much better custom solutions as every fucking thing requires some third party npm package. You have to npm install body-parser just for some basic shit. I would actually recommend Node if you are new to web applications because you will learn how HTTP actually works. Django does too much for you and if you don't understand all the magic it is doing it will lead to problems.

> my incomplete Java library that has less than 500 downloads on Maven central

Fuck off idiot. Nobody is using that garbage just like vert.x.

>C#
>not Obj-C

mastercard does

No they don't.

yes they do, open your eyes

Node is not a framework, node is a javascript runtime enrivornment. That's like comparing Django to GNU GCC, it just makes no sense.

>using dynamically typed languages for large backend applications
Thanks but no thanks.

Use Typescript then. It has a far better type system than any of the popular statically typed languages.

Compiling a language which has compile time type analysis into a language with no runtime type correctness doesn't count as using a statically typed language.

> doesn't count as using a statically typed language

Yes it does. The target platform makes little to no difference. Machine code or assembly also have no concept of "runtime type correctness."

>he thinks javascript becomes machine code

/thread
If your scope is dependent on spaces and tabs you should kill yourself

This is a straw man. The target of most strong static languages is not machine code. The target of many languages is a runtime which ensures type correctness. Java bytecode runs on a stable type correct platform. Typeshit code gets compiled to run on a platform designed to make your tags fucking blink.

JVM bytecode throws 99% of type information away. It's not "type correct" in any way.

> and corps
oh, ok. if you take out corporations then maybe you're right.

False, django is great

>t. first year cs student

Off by a decade, I work with it professionally and like it

django is great if you're a kid or amateur, there is no way to build a complex API with complex routers and build complex custom SQL with its cancerous ORM, it's total amateurish piece of shit

>t. writes crud web sites for a living
lmao

Yes, it's called easy money

>10 years of webdev
You must have nerves of steel to deal with the shitfest that are web techs.

just another thread full of unemployed fizzbuzz "coders" treating languages like football teams. Hiro should close this shit down for good and kill it with fire.

this entire thread is why I just build shit, sell it for millions, then the new owners rewrite it in whatever meme language of the week they want it in.
*sips tea*

I only do backend, fuck frontend shitfest. I keep my cool because I'm autistic and spend my time writing unit tests for everything. Nothing makes me cum harder than increasing code coverage.

What is it missing? You just reference a nuget package for whatever meme "webscale" tool you want.

One is Python and thus slow as fuck.

Which version?
Considering every single fucking Java language is incompatible with programs that were written for different versions, we might as well consider them different languages at this point.

>Anyone suggesting Node
yeah good one m8s

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>all this Java Spring bullshit
Use Play niggers.

>django at all
lmaoing at your life

If you're using Play, you might as well switch to Scala.

At first I wanted to roll my eyes at you, saying that it's obviously a joke library.
I also wanted to link the is-thirteen package to show you another joke.

Then I noticed the downloads.
What.
The FUCK.

>Not using the far superior is-thirteen package

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>He doesn't know about is-even
user, I...

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You even have nodetards defending this shit, no kidding:

>Correctly checking if a variable is odd is not quite as simple in a dynamic, type-coercing library like ECMAScript as you might think. You have to consider things like: is the variable null or undefined? Does it have the Number type? Is the number an integer? Is the integer odd? In a statically typed language, the compiler would guarantee many of these things for you, but in ES you need to do it yourself.

>It's not rocket science, but it's tricky enough that you could perhaps make a mistake or overlook something. To be safe in these situations, when writing a small amount of "nearly trivial" code, programmers have generally resorted to a package manager called "Google / Stack Overflow".

>This package manager works as follows: You Google for "safely check if odd in JavaScript", open the top Stack Overflow link, then copy and paste the answer (usually a single function) into your codebase. Then you add a comment saying "taken from stackoverflow.com...". Whenever you have another piece of "nearly trivial" code to write, you install it the same way.

>ES developers thought that this workflow could be optimised a bit. To that end, they invented a package manager called "npm". Unlike the Google / Stack Overflow manager above, this lets you install functions like "is-odd" without having to manually copy and paste them from your browser. It also keeps track of where they came from, who authored them, and even lets them be updated, if necessary.

Protip to everyone who believes guy makes any sense: If you've lost control of the types in your program so badly that you'd need a library like this, your program is fundamentally broken already and this library won't save it.

Fucking hell the mental gymnastics they use to try to say playing fast and loose with types is okay.
>B-but my sanic fast development!
These people are irreparable. They need to just leave software.

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pic reminds me of this

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I've been preaching to the JSTards about the massive, massive benefits of static and strong typing for a decade.
They never wanted to hear about it, always citing that it's too rigit and adding a type to parameters and function return types somehow makes them code 5000% slower (What the fuck are they even doing at their job? Just defining functions all day? The majority of MY day gets wasted trying to figure out what un- or poorly documented behavior is causing my code that looks correct to not work as advertised).
Now that TypeScript is a thing, they're finally starting to get it. I'm torn, kinda upset that they won't admit that they were wrong, but also happy that they finally see the light.

Unfortunately, the jQuery Spaghetti Crusader still exists who couldn't recognize a structured program even if he was locked in a cell with one for 6 years, who has no idea whether his variables are strings or numbers and who just defines random event listeners everywhere.
He and his cousin, the stack overflow developer who can't write a single line of code by himself without googling, recently had a bastard child and that is the NPM webpack victim. Instead of googling for a line of code that does what he wants, he now googles for an NPM package that does the thing he wants.
I fucking hate these people. Did you ever have to maintain the shit they create? It's disgusting. I hate it. It makes me sick.
BAH!

>Did you ever have to maintain the shit they create
Not quite, but absurd package bloat isn't just in pajeet-tier projects, but big mainstream ones too. I'm fucking sick of restoring npm and getting literally a hundred thousand files.

but but it's boring to write type when it's obvious.
m...my code is cleaner and mo...more expressive when it's not bloated by type
I have good memory, I don't ever forget types in the code I write... I swear.
also women and blacks can write code now, it...it's a goo..d thing.
No racist compiler to block your way, everything can work.

The people who know what they're doing use Typescript.

What should we use then, buddy?

Go

modern c++

But C++ string handling is still so shit, and the web is like 99.9% strings.

6 gorillion