If so, did you lose anything in the process? Did the OS or certain programs become less convenient or non-functional?
I need a Linux distro without systemD and I don't know which one to choose. I used to use Fedora but since I got redpilled on systemD I don't want to go back. I use OpenBSD but need Linux for one application.
no. systemd is a godsend and that's why literally every distributor switched to it.
Samuel Sullivan
I migrated from arch to artix, but that's not really doing much considering you just replace a bunch of packages/repos
Carson Collins
devuan is debian without systemd and some broken packages. Off the top of my head plymouth is broken, but everything else works exactly as you expect. I hate the default sysvinit though, so I went back to debian. I know openrc and others are technically supported, but in reality no one bothers with them so you’ll run into issues.
Julian Hughes
What's the beef with systemD?
Alexander Thompson
autists being autists.
Liam Diaz
>devuan is debian without systemd and updates, or mainenance audit the source code, and figure it out yourself
Ayden Perez
I switched to the best distro, windows. If there are no unpozzed OSes left and you have to suck a corporate dick might as well go to the source
Luke Wright
>>devuan is debian without systemd and >updates, or mainenance t. brainlet pöttering shill having 0 idea about how devuan works.
Carter White
I don't have time for that shit.
Asher Barnes
Devuan,void,MX
Jaxon Rogers
I moved from void because it doesnt have systemd.
Ryan Foster
When was the last time devuan was updated?
Ethan Lewis
meant for
Ian Phillips
It updates at the same rate as debian.
Jaxson Davis
Devuan is Debian with a few minor customizations and a lack of systemd. They mirror the Debian repos and just blacklist a few packages that require systemd, which won't work. If you want to know which packages are blacklisted, take a look at their banned packages page. It's surprisingly small and mostly consists of systemd related packages. Other things not listed may be broken but I haven't found any in the few months I've been using it.
I'm doing devuan. My setup is fragile as fuck. But I don't really use it for anything special, primarily coding and porn. Thinking about going Arch with i3 for the fun of it.
Void Linux. Everything works perfectly, base install may seem too basic for some people though. The only missing package here is metasploit, everything else is pretty much recent and stable.
Blake Foster
>what do you mean you want things to be consistent and error-free? are you some kind of aspergers?
Ayden Taylor
>I used to use Fedora but since I got redpilled on systemD i'd be surprised if anyone on Jow Forums could provide an actual reason to switch from systemd other than > ITS FOR KEKS > MUH BLOAT > Xd POTTERING > LE ATTACK SURFACE > I GOT RED PILLED ON SYSTEMD
is there anything i missed? why NOT use systemd, OP?
Aiden Carter
It's still really buggy on a bit less common hardware. Also, add up infinite shutdowns, services getting randomly stopped and binary logging. From a bit less practical side - monolithic, non-modular architecture. Also, large, bloated and insecure code.
Jacob Scott
if you want to use systemd go ahead. just don't force other people to use it.
Luis Kelly
I switched from mint to devuan because the systemd meme They have the cinnamon de and I don't even notice since ascii launched
Alexander Anderson
>It's still really buggy on a bit less common hardware. Also, add up infinite shutdowns, services getting randomly stopped literally never experienced these sorts of issues using systemd, but once again, I'm asking for a technical explanation of why you perceive it to be bad and spooky. listing symptoms you've concluded are rooted in your use of systemd is not an explanation why I shouldn't use it, rather implying yours or someone else's negative experience with it should deter me from using it.
>binary logging what the fuck are you even trying to say here? i'm not sure what you're trying to refer to when you say binary logging
Tyler Walker
Binary logging means not storing logs in plaintext. What implications does it have on you? Let's say your log file gets corrupted. If it's systemd, you can't recover it. In case of simple, text-based log file - it's totally possible to recover uncorrupted parts of the file.
William Diaz
>being this triggered by a cartoon frog
Ryan Gonzalez
systemd is anti-linux. it's unmodular and impossible to fork. this is why Linus hates it. this is why most sane system admins hate it.
it's easier to customize init than it is systemd, thus init is better. what more of an argument do you need?
Grayson Scott
I follow Luke, who is not against System-D. Void linux is kill.
Dominic Stewart
They're problems that can be fixed. But what if maintainer doesn't want to fix them? I don't mean telling him to fix it, but actually giving a bug fix and getting it rejected because of literally nothing.
Joseph Morales
I did, I didn't lose features It is less convenient regarding things that run as daemons since a lot of docs are meant to be used with systemd, but there's still plenty of documentation and support for sysv
Andrew Rodriguez
I recommend Void/Alpine/Gentoo/GuixSD
Lincoln Gomez
they can't be fixed by anyone because systemd is monolithic garbage.
Sebastian Barnes
>Let's say your log file gets corrupted. If it's systemd, you can't recover it. In case of simple, text-based log file - it's totally possible to recover uncorrupted parts of the file. so why would a file in some arbitrary binary file format that gets corrupted be any more recoverable than one that is binary format of plain text? I don't understand what point you're trying to make
>it's unmodular and impossible to fork. what about it is so "unmodular" that it's "impossible" to fork?
Juan Hill
Go Artix (or Obarun if you want that obscurity) with i3 if anything
Joseph Powell
I switched from Fedora to Void and everything works fine. Then again I don't do anything too specialized, just web browsing and running VMs.
Cooper Fisher
>what about it is so "unmodular" that it's "impossible" to fork? it just is. take uslessd for example, which tried to be a minimalist version of systemd so as to be lightweight. the dev literally gave up on trying to make it workable and decided to make his own init system from scratch. if you care at all about FOSS, you do not want cancer like SystemD floating around the community and being shilled by corporations like Red Hat.
Carter Jones
>it just is. it's just by nature "unmodular", so then why is this a bad thing, if it just IS. this is a bad answer to that question
Jackson Butler
>so then why is this a bad thing because it halts the expansion of FOSS. if the users don't want to work on your code, it isn't FOSS code. this is like asking why compiled javascript is a bad thing.
Thomas Parker
>because it halts the expansion of FOSS. if the users don't want to work on your code, it isn't FOSS code. here's a novel idea, if it's so shitty, then DONT work on it. don't just tell others that it's bad just because it IS.
despite my hatred for JS, nice JS strawman though
Brandon Baker
that's not how the real world works buddy. systemd is popular not because the code is good, but because it's the only thing Red Hat offers support on. as a result this trickles down into the more popular distributions to make things more "inclusive" for newcomer sysadmins. I'm not saying we should delete systemd off the internet, just that the major pylons of Linux (Ubuntu and Red Hat) should not force it upon new users.
Hunter Davis
What's MX?
Kayden Moore
>I'm not saying we should delete systemd off the internet, just that the major pylons of Linux (Ubuntu and Red Hat) should not force it upon new users. why? because you don't like red hat? if the decision was clearly so wrong, why somewhere along the line didn't someone at red hat/ canonical/ etc. realize this? are you saying you somehow know better than everyone who's ever actually worked on and contributed to these projects, because you say it's just BAD?
what about red hat is so scary user? big corporate boogey man coming to get you buddy?
Tyler Barnes
>claims to hate nonfree javascript >doesn't understand what's so bad about SystemD you're just being disingenuous at this point
Wyatt Hill
Yes and I lost Jack-shit so pretty worth it. I didn't use gnome and I have never used. So all other software is available
Matthew Ross
I installed Debian and then just installed sysv and removed systemd. Just works
Noah Thompson
>>claims to hate nonfree javascript >>doesn't understand what's so bad about SystemD >you're just being disingenuous at this point still hasn't made a coherent argument against system d, other than > ITS FOR KEKS > MUH BLOAT > Xd POTTERING > LE ATTACK SURFACE > I GOT RED PILLED ON SYSTEMD >SCARY CORPORATE RED HAT Jow Forums in a nutshell
Cameron Reed
>RED HAT You mean IBM now
Dylan Martin
I literally did. systemd hurts the free software movement.
Cooper Reyes
>I literally did. systemd hurts the free software movement. ok, you're getting somewhere now. there has to be some technical reason behind. however morons on Jow Forums crying about it >hurting the FOSS movement is about as Jow Forums as it comes. substantiate your claims with something technical ( i dunno, known issues/ or actions/choices of developers) and maybe I'd see the point you're trying to make. Someone telling me that systemd hurts richy stallmans feelings, quite frankly isn't going to stop me from using it.
Dominic Howard
this would require me to rewrite everything I've already told you throughout this thread, which I'm not willing to do. get some reading comprehension or stop feigning ignorance.
Dominic Jones
>this would require me to rewrite everything I've already told you throughout this thread, which I'm not willing to do. get some reading comprehension or stop feigning ignorance. you haven't made one single technical remark in this thread. buzzwording about bug fixes and them being rejected without any real details to your claims is not making an argument to your point, just shows you know how to buzzword about software. but keep REEEEEEing buddy, maybe that'll stop systemd!!!!!!!!!
Dylan Lewis
>buzzwording about bug fixes and them being rejected never did I say this. you are strawmanning. if you actually read and understood anything I typed you would stop posting.
Daniel Morgan
>if you actually read and understood anything I typed you would stop posting. see, now that your childish arguments have been completely deconstructed, you've resorted to regurgitating nonsense. there hasn't been a mention of a single technical aspect of systemd in this entire thread. you likely are not a software developer, as you seem to have a hard time making any point about anything other than >I literally did. systemd hurts the free software movement.
but good for you buddy, tell yourself how smart you are, that'll show me!!!!!!!
Zachary Bailey
okay. ignore everything else I said then. anyone else who's reading the thread will know you're retarded.
Samuel Allen
Yes.
Switched from Arch and Debian to Devuan.
Good call!
Landon Wilson
>okay. ignore everything else I said then. anyone else who's reading the thread will know you're retarded. why don't you try re reading this post, and quote which posts you find agree with the points you're trying to make? otherwise, you're the retard with his own foot in his mouth trying to scream >RETARD at someone else. but it's ok, I know you don't really know what you're talking about, but keep posting, I have all night buddy
Jonathan Jackson
Runit is faster and any error messages you get in systemd aren't helpful
Jaxson Davis
>Runit is faster in what ways? >any error messages you get in systemd aren't helpful how so? I've had plenty of luck toubleshooting various issues using journalctl
Ayden Ross
>quote which posts you find agree with the points you're trying to make? I addressed all of your questions. then in this post you just proceed to straw-man and ignore everything else I said.
Austin Torres
there is literally nothing technical in any of those posts. all i'm asking you to do is substantiate >it's unmodular and impossible to fork. this is a claim, with little factual evidence proving that this is the case >it just is. take uslessd for example, which tried to be a minimalist version of systemd so as to be lightweight. the dev literally gave up on trying to make it workable and decided to make his own init system from scratch. and what point does this make about systemd? maybe the developer was inexperienced. trying to work with a code base the size of systemd's all on your own is a monumental task, doesn't necessarily imply that systemd was at fault for him changing his path >if you care at all about FOSS, you do not want cancer like SystemD floating around the community and being shilled by corporations like Red Hat. to this point, I do care about FOSS, but not to the point that i would blindly shill some piece of software. quite frankly, thats more detrimental to the FOSS movement than you seem to understand. think for yourself, my child. >because it halts the expansion of FOSS. if the users don't want to work on your code, it isn't FOSS code. >this is like asking why compiled javascript is a bad thing. this is a claim, with little factual evidence proving that this is the case, and a cute little strawman about JS >that's not how the real world works buddy. systemd is popular not because the code is good, but because it's the only thing Red Hat offers support on. as a result this trickles down into the more popular distributions to make things more "inclusive" for newcomer sysadmins. I'm not saying we should delete systemd off the internet, just that the major pylons of Linux (Ubuntu and Red Hat) should not force it upon new users. again, CORPORATE BOOGEY MAN isn't a technical argument
again, no mention of anything technical here, just people making claims about shit they know nothing about
Jack Ramirez
Depending on one's skill level and patience:
PCLinuxOS Slackware Void Gentoo
Nolan Butler
what are you using within i3 to get everything to work? like sound, power etc
Asher Fisher
>In what ways? Boot times. From GRUB to login is about a second on a thinkpad x220 with services. SystemD would clock it's speeds at around 15 seconds or something. Shutting down is also super fast on runit whereas systemd would sometimes take an extra minute for some reason. I moved from arch to void and the difference is very noticeable. >how so? I've had plenty of luck troubleshooting various issues using journalctl. Runit typically spits out any problems it is has in english. SystemD will rune a traceback through like four different layers of abstraction that sure you can google and find the answers for, but I can almost always diagnose a runit error without looking up the problem. It's just a lot easier.
Austin Adams
I switched back to windows. If I'm going to use a non unix system with many vulnerabilities hidden I might as well choose the easier os with more compatable, and usable professional software.
Mason Hughes
>since I got redpilled on systemD >frogposter Can you personally (OP), name even five things wrong with systemD?
Wyatt Smith
In seriousness, I've been distrohopping for a little while since I decided I didn't want systemd on any of my systems. I've used Arch-OpenRC, Manjaro-OpenRC, Gentoo, Devuan, Void, and Artix. Personally I feel like Arch-OpenRC and Manjaro-OpenRC felt like betas, which to be fair they kind of were, and Artix is the finished product. I loved Void but didn't care for its tiny repos and didn't feel like becoming a maintainer for a distro I had only just started kicking around for some stuff I care about (mostly source ports). Gentoo was a major pain in the ass to set up -- note that I say pain in the ass, it wasn't hard. Just follow the guide and you'll be fine. I was fine once I got set up, but I got bored and hopped to Artix again after giving it some time to mature and for the runit spin to cook up.
There isn't much I haven't been able to get working on Artix, even with my (seemingly) less common config with runit as init. Just about the only thing I had to do that I wouldn't have with systemd is write up a small init wrapper for my Folding@Home client. I unironically have more trouble going without Pulseaudio than I do systemd -- I'm not crazy about using elogind but it seems more trouble-free than consolekit2 in my experience. I love still having the convenience of the AUR, with the raw speed and simplicity of runit as init -- seriously, if I didn't have encrypted LVM that had to have a passphrase fed to it on bootup, I'd be from UEFI to display manager in around three seconds.
Gavin King
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jordan Williams
I use voidlinux because it uses runit not system. Haven't had any problems.
Jaxson Flores
i switched to devuan, i think my install is using sysvinit. i notice few differences but it seems worse than xubuntu. firstly, if i shut the lid of my laptop and THEN plug in my laptop the screen will not turn off. so if i need to charge my laptop i must first open the screen and then plug it in. if i do this vice versa, the laptop does not suspend so it burns through battery faster. so i have to manuallly open and then reclose once it registers that hey, the laptop is no longer charging, its on battery, follow his powersaving option now. another problem ive encountered is that grub has been incorrectly installed. after reboot i hit a grub prompt where i must type "exit" before my uefi bootloader shows devuan and i can boot, which was scary the first time because i thought i couldnt boot and didnt have another computer to flash a new rom. finally you cannot use few softwares like network manager, but wicd-gtk (what devuan comes with) is servicable (though if you have the gui open it will completely cease to do anything, you have to close it before it auto connects to a network. very annoying on a multi router system because it keeps fucking connecting to routers far as fuck away rather than the one at 100 connection speed) i feel i should mention this is the only software in my usecase ive encountered that i know needs systemd. the only benefit ive encountered so far is that when i open the laptop lid it immediately lights up which feels great
Christopher Flores
> firstly, if i shut the lid of my laptop and THEN plug in my laptop the screen will not turn off turn on*. as in it soft locks my laptop i have to shut it down. ctrl alt f2 - 6 and so on do not work even
Nathaniel Price
What is systemd and why is it good/bad?
Aaron Garcia
Switched from Debian to Devuan, RIP Ian.
Zachary Morales
Is it less stable than Vanilla Debian? Does systemD cause it to boot slower?
Help this brainlet understand!
Adam Lewis
Defiantly is faster than Debian without all that System D nonsense. It’s just as easy to use and the updates come out the same day. All the updates are automatically mirrored anyway, they come out like 10 minutes after Debian’s updates, max.
Just do it user. Report back to this thread when you’re finished installing.
Nathan Myers
>binary It takes under 30 seconds to make journald vomit stuff into syslog. >it's unmodular You can literally compile only the bits you need.
I don't like Poettering and other NiH-fedoratards, but systemd hate is literally just irrational autism by wannabe coolhaxor special eds.
Jayden Collins
Does it have the same hardware compatibility? Same etc/sources thing you have to edit?
This is like learning a new language lol
Easton Johnson
Calculate linux
Asher Jenkins
literally debian tinfoil
Jack Anderson
so what do you use? debian or Devuan
Chase Martinez
does alpine use openrc?
Ayden Barnes
>use debian for years >best thing ever, never have any problems >they decided to switch to systemd (fuck knows why) >problems start cropping up, shit breaks and crashes that shouldn't and for no discernable reason >gets worse with every update >finally get fed up and switch to a systemdless distro >everything just works as expected and nothing ever breaks or crashes Now, I don't know much about init systems or how they work to be able to denounce one meaningfully, but the above is my experience. I regret waiting so long - I felt indebted to my beloved Debian, I didn't want to think that they could make such a bad decision. GuixSD is the best thing that has ever happened to my computer life, I urge you all to step up as soon as possible.
Yes everything is exactly the same. You can use all the Debian guides and documentation.
GTFO Redhat shill.
Jeremiah Sullivan
If there was debian without systemD, then sure Fuck, okay.
...For 90% of the gear I use, I'm building shit from scratch >I unironically love embedded so it doesn't make much of a difference, I'm not using any distros per se
Jaxon Richardson
first of all, nigger, just because you know how to point at the fallacies in my argument, it doesn't mean I'm saying anything wrong. you can say I'm cherrypicking and being anecdotal, sure. but I can give you 1000 reasons systemd is impossible to work with as free software, but I won't. why? because it's not worth my fucking time since I'm not sure I can even convince you. YOU have to prove to me it can even be worked with. I have seen no such evidence of any serious modification to systemd being doable without resorting to a full-time job of editing and maintaining the code. init has no such problems. take that binary log thing the other guy mentioned. can you implement a plaintext module for systemd? you can't. because it would require hours and hours of coding that nobody wants to do. init DOES NOT HAVE This PROBLEM.
Elijah Lewis
>I don't like Poettering and other NiH-fedoratards, but systemd hate is literally just irrational autism by wannabe coolhaxor special eds. see
Leo Murphy
MX records tell people where your mail server is
Ethan Allen
SystemD is based and basically you're just a faggot
Andrew Perry
FreeBSD supports Linux binary emulation and it is systemd freel
Adam Phillips
Yep, I switched to CloverOS because it lacked all the bloat middleware botnet cancer plaguing the shitty SJW meme Linux distros and I couldn't be happier.
I migrated from manjaro to artix. Lost nothing. artix repos give me a fake systemd wrapper, so any packages from arch repos or the aur that depend on systemd still work.
Luis Collins
systemd was a mistake
Jacob Reed
You don't need emulation if you use open-source software.