My employer is at the early stages of designing a rewrite for our largest, oldest webapp...

My employer is at the early stages of designing a rewrite for our largest, oldest webapp. The app is 100% dotnet; lots of asmx services, wcf services, etc. The front end is webforms. They have ~300 dotnet developers supporting this behemoth.

There was a pretty big "reorganization" as they called it a couple months ago. The architects-in-name-only, the 20 year veterans who have only ever worked at this one company, were removed from their position of authority. The company brought in a bunch of top-tier people from all over the country. One of which was this Indian dude from silicon valley. Straight out of the gate, this guy starts pushing ClojureScript. He thinks that telling 300ish dotnet devs to stop what they're doing and start doing ClojureScript is a good idea. The former architects that got reorganized are all supporting him because they're scared shitless that they'll get the axe if they respond negatively to silicon valley ClojureScript guy. The old architects are now in echo chamber mode where they all agree ClojureScript will solve all the world's problems, but ridicule anyone with differing opinions and insights.

I started here three months ago. How would you recommend that I swing these ClojureScript fanbois away from making a horrible decision that will end with all of them getting fired?

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Call them retarded autists.

I am Clojure fanboy, but Typescript is way better than ClojureScript for this user case.

ClojureScript had cool stuff but performance/memory usage and Dynamic typing for big projects is bad.

Even ReasonML or bucketJS (Ocaml favor JS is way better) and ELM as functional.js.

For example some project as Clojurescript Om project get BTFO by React.js and ReasonML.

Agreed about ClojureScript. I like it, but not for a huge, enterprisey project with very strict rules around security, compliance, etc. My guess is that the project would go like this:
> tell 300 devs to learn functional programming or gtfo
> 50 devs quit within the first three months
> 250 remaining devs struggle for the next six months and produce nothing
> More devs flee...
> HR creates open req for ClojureScript devs
> Months go by... zero applicants
> More devs leave...
> HR finds some candidates, but they're all straight out of college with zero xp
> Remaining devs still struggling... still not producing
> HR finds 1 or 2 devs that will work remote for a king's ransom

At the final QBR of the year, they'd see this:
> Negligible progress on the rewrite
> Huge turnover
> Those trained in ClojureScript have left for jobs paying big bucks for their niche knowledge
> No candidates

native JS master race

commit suicide

I don't know how you'd save them. I mean, they went from .NET to ClojureScript.

Meanwhile things that worked better for a lot more companies were things like PHP, Java and Scala and JS all along. Not that these ensure a free ride on a silver bullet solution at all, but you know, they worked... better.

how the fuck is .NET comparable to clojurescript? does .NET really have some transpile to js compiler?

Accept your bastardized Lisp.

This, I'm not even a webdev but even I know Clojurescript was a stillborn pile of garbage compared to typescript. Even as a suckless/ANSI C/etc purist, I find typescript to be pretty good. Not perfect, but leaps and bounds ahead of its counterparts.

You have nothing to gain and everything to lose. Stay silent

Convince them to use Haskell instead.

Show them full-stack F#.
fable.io/
github.com/giraffe-fsharp/Giraffe

>suckless/ANSI C/etc purist
>I find typescript to be pretty good
I actually chuckled IRL. You know what they call a suckless ANSI C purist who actually programs in TypeScript? A freshman.

This is the unfortunate reality.

On the plus side! You can swoop in with your own business at a later date to pick up all those clients they just lost thanks to the rewrite. Bring along your non-retarded coworkers for the ride.

> Native JS master race.

Forgoing the monstrosity that is web development altogether master race.

If you have the talk leverage I suggest you guys use Scalajs instead.

Scala is a very mature language, you get a very an excellent type system, built-in testing frameworks and you can do all the hipster functional programming you want with it.

Also I think convincing a bunch of oldfart .net developers to use scala is a lot easier than making them use fucking Clojure.

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second this

I get that it's probably a better choice in many ways.

But Scala[JS] isn't an easy ride either, and the old farts that want something "simple, mature and stable like LISP]" will probably be horrified by the idea of a fluid language with many moving frameworks and people even trying to *gasp* fix everything from the language [Dotty/Scala3 - as well as all the other things that are going on] over the build tooling [sbt is already radical, but mill and so on also are there] to anything else. Be prepared for adversity.

I used ScalaJS as an example of why not use ClojureScript!! :D Said it was much more viable with devs familiar with Scala.

Honestly, we've got a bunch of old fart dotnet devs, the best thing we can use to produce """""""decent"""""" javascript is TypeScript. You've got to understand that your average dotnet dev BARELY understands Razor, which is why dotnet folks who know a thing or two have such a hard on for Blazor. React is the goal. React with Redux is the stretch goal. Angular is the most likely.

Gotta keep things simple so everybody can work on the code and PRODUCE! ClojureScript, to me, just isnt' there in terms of viability. It might be the worst thing out for a large corporation to adopt for its dotnet devs. If I'm going to use a transpiler at all, it's going to resemble C# or Java, period. Anything else at a large scale shop is a meme.

Still don't know how to explain this to tptb.

this but unironically

The frontend on anything remotely modern in dotnet webshit is whatever you want, but back in the days of hell there were "webforms". They tried to make things easier for desktop devs to do webdev by gluing the front and backends together and automating the ajax calls to make form events work. The result was a disaster. Basically it's hot trash which should die asap and be forgotten forever. Asmx and wfc are also total shit.
It sounds like OP's company realized what a money pit this webapp is, and they want to break away from the deprecated stack it's sitting on. Good on 'em. If they chose to start over with an asp core backend and Vue or Angular on Typescript frontend then they'd be all set. Instead they hired a meme master who thinks forcing clojurescript on dotnet devs is a good idea. If OP gave a company name I'd be shorting their stock right now.

I hate these (((disrupters))) trying to tackle non critical projects, if it ain't broke dont fix it. he's way in over his head trying to rebuild this garbage. anyways nodejs + es6 is new hotness. doesnt matter what framework/view layer (react vue blah blah blah) you use.

Nice blog, faggot.

Pretty much sums it up. Didn't say the company name because of just this reason, though, we both know that the company wouldn't tolerate a loss significant enough to affect shareholders... they'd fire whomever came up with the ClojureScript idea. Because I'm a remote worker being paid the salary of an enterprise architect at a east coast bank with heavy govt. affiliation that is 5x's what I could get paid in my local msrket, I'm willing to """help""" those in charge steer the ship back to friendly waters before any of this shit goes down.

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