So what happens when Zen 2 comes out and Intel has, literally, no advantage at all in the desktop market?
All of their processors at every price point will be
>slower single core
>slower multi core
>hotter
and above all
>more expensive
I'm unsure of the relative size of their enterprise segment compared to desktop, but will this be a minor issue or a major problem in the next few years?
i'll buy the latest intel chip when the upgrade suits me
And yet still beats amd in gaming and other applications that matters because they'll still somehow be optimized towards Intel. AMDrone cucks will keep crying unfair, not amd faults and faps to their cinebench and ashes of the singularity benchmark with 3 other people.
That's what you say every year and at the end of the day intel is still superior.
I guess if you want an ultra high end 144Hz+ build go Intel. Ryzen is enough for everyone else
But only enthusiasts build their own desktop. A laptop or prebuilts with an i5 is enough for everybody else and AMD is fucked there too.
>And yet still beats amd in gaming
Except they already don't? And where they do lead at the moment, it's by single digit percentage points.
Zen 2 will have double digit performance gains. So, again, what happens in 6-9 months when Intel products are objectively worse in every way, at every price point? What will happen?
Sure, if you don't need to swap motherboards that would make the most sense. If you include buying a new motherboard for an existing PC, you'll never get as good of price:performance as sticking with the same brand.
Not reading your picture but we already know AMD and Intel are within single digit percentage points on both of their respective highest-end parts. Zen 2 will have double digit performance gains. So Intel will be behind well within a year.
Why are you so focused on defending a multi-billion dollar Israeli company?
True for now, but won't be with Zen 2 (probably). We'll have to wait for benchmarks, of course, but I'm fairly certain that whatever the top end Ryzen 3000 processor is, will be faster than Intel's fastest. Both in multi and single-core.
Is that why AMD is outpacing Intel in the OEM market, and has been for several months?
>Except they already don't?
God the delusion..
Consoles maybe and theyre abysmal compared to laptops and prebuilts.
>Why are you so focused on defending a multi-billion dollar Israeli company?
Because every single benchmark on the net says it's better?
WTF a 9900k at 5.1 is only 12% faster than my 1600 that i bought a year ago for $160 the fuck is the point?
"Intel beats AMD in certain games" would have been accurate, you just said Intel beats AMD, period. And that's false.
Also, notice the single-digit difference there? Zen 2 is slated to have something like 15-25% better IPC than Zen. What I'm saying is, Intel's time is limited.
No, I mean prebuilts have started shifting to AMD and AMD has outpaced Intel in terms of volume shipped for several months now.
Part of it is due to shortages on Intel's side, and part of it is better cost effectiveness of AMD parts.
But AMD also owns the console market, yes.
>single digit performance difference
Which will be erased with Zen 2. And this is to say nothing of price:performance, which AMD has completely dominated Intel in since the 1700 was released.
Again, why are you so focused on defending a multi-billion dollar Israeli company? Why are you so dedicated to protecting them?
Because that's what Intel is capable of producing. A much hotter and *significantly* more expensive product that performs very slightly better.
It's like how $500k supercar owners get pissy when a $90k Tesla dominates their car in the quarter mile, or a $110k ZR1 destroys them anywhere. Zen+ is almost there, Zen 2 will surpass it.
I have a 2600 myself since I do other shit besides gayming. For gayming exclusively a 8600k is the best pick tho since it's not even that expensive and has the performance of a 8700k/9700k
wait this was with a $120 AIO so the total price of the 9900k was $670 compared to my $160 1600 so $510 more for 12% just wow.
>only 418% more expensive for massive 12% performance gain
shut up goy this is very antisemitic
Desktop isnt dying, but it's certainly leveled off. Laptops are where Intel should be concerned.
If RTG can work some magic to unfuck it's self in Vega and get power and costs down they will be the defacto mobile chip for most as well.
I'd love to see AMD pull the same shit with GPUs that they did with CPUs. Nvidia has had a strongarm monopoly for way too long, and the underwhelming performance gains and overwhelming prices are the result of that.
Intel leverages their business connections, just like last time around.
please delete this very antisemitic comment
It's one of those threads again, where inteltards are claiming that intel has the fastest cpus.
Here's what happened
Amd released 2700x,
Fucked the shit out of 8700k
Intel realized they have to release an 8 core
They can't afford it at $300, so they just almost double the price.
They saw the performance of 2700x, so the overclocked the 9900k enough to beat the. 2700x.
The result? 9900k uses 95watts at base clocks and 250watts at turbo clocks.
If AMD were to release 2800x at double the price of 2700x and at 250watt power consumption in turbo clocks, be sure that it would mop the shit out of any kike lake.
Why they don't do it? Because they don't care about luring the idiots.
No sane user is going to buy a 250watt space heater on 2018 with a 14nm node.
We didn't even have that kind of power consumption 20 years ago.
9900k is 2 steps backwards for intel, first because the just given up on competing by rushing the shitiest 8core design at any cost and second because they fucked up their 8700k and 7700k customers even more.
Hey 7700k users, how do you feel that your stutterfest is actually an i3 tier cpu 1.5 year later, because amd steers the market now?
Bought a Ryzen a few months ago, it crashed all my productivity software.
I went back to Intel and have never been happier.
Fuck AMD and their subpar products
You realize normal people don't talk like that? "Productivity" is generic buzzword, if a real program you use crashed you would just name it...Obvious shill...
>Listing proprietary productivity software on Jow Forums
What could go wrong?
It does bring warmth to my heart when I see people call out astroturfers.
I'm very much looking to buy Zen2, but I think Intel will still have an advantage in gaymen.
Not that I care terribly. It's threadripper I'm looking at.
When I switched to AMD my entertainment programs all lost about 10% performance on average.
I really love the fact how you're all avoiding the elephant in the room: RAM.
Zen+ IPC is actually HIGHER than coffeelake IPC indicated by this graph. The problem lies in shitty RAM but once you use CL14 3200MHz or better the stock i7-8700K on a non-Z motherboard LOSES to a 4.3ghz ryzen. Let that sink in.
Zen 2 even with just 10% higher IPC will force intel to release another incompatible chipset to craddle its 10-core 5.5 GHz housefires. Good times are ahead.
>it crashed all my productivity software
You can't hot swap a CPU bro
On a serious note, fuck off liar
>the problem lies in shitty RAM
More like it lies in AMD shitty CPU cache.
what productivity software you fucking faggot
pic related
You're dam right 90% of ryzen reviews use CL16 2666MHz RAM or worse.
Adobe productivity suite
Soo, you're saying my 2600 that I paid $170 for is 90% as goot as a 9900k? Remind me again how this is an argument for intel?
Nope, it has to do with inifinity fabric running at the speed and latency of system RAM a remnant of zen being optimized for HEDT and server platforms.
Stop posting the same shit
Arent you tired of getting btfo?
>The problem lies in shitty RAM
No it doesn't. The problem lies in Ifninty Fabric relying on fast RAM with very tight timings to come out of its shell.
Not a big issue, but if you're not willing or able to tweak that shit, then it's not for you as it is.
>The problem lies in shitty RAM but once you use CL14 3200MHz or better the stock i7-8700K on a non-Z motherboard LOSES to a 4.3ghz ryzen. Let that sink in.
Zen2 paired with 5000Mhz RAM will destroy Intel
>Ryzen with $200 ram and oc'ed beats stock 8700k with shit ram and shit mobo
>thus ryzen is better
How is that even an argument?
Stop gaslighting. There's nothing wrong with saving $50 on the CPU to spend $50 more on RAM to get the same performance
I don't think it is.
I just think we should stop using gaymen as the only Goddamn parameter.
"Drag you down to their level bladibla"
1.) more like $170 RAM
2.) It's not OC'd, stock xfr settings were used
3.) The point is non-Z intel motherboards are FORCED to use shitty RAM since the chipsets only let you use 2666MHz RAM at best
I don't even give a shit about all this gaymen shitflinging anyway desu, I'm just her to point out zen+ has EXCEEDED coffeelake IPC so zen 2 doesn't even have to work that hard. We could literally get by with just the 10-15% projected IPC uplift, no jump in clocks necessary.
Why the fuck does everyone here only care about games
Without spending wayyyy fucking more for an i9, Ryzen 7 and Threadripper already crush Intel in any situation involving real work
On Gentoo the cores/threads are a fucking dream
>Moving the goalposts
>I'm just her to point out zen+ has EXCEEDED coffeelake IPC so zen 2 doesn't even have to work that hard.
You havent even proved that yet tho, you are just shilling with your nonsense
Buyers remorse, myself included. I paid about $300 for my i7-7700, $80 for my NH-D15 beefy cooler, $200 for my Z270 motherboard all used to lock my CPU to 4.2GHz and I still got high temps somehow.
Now I find out I have to fucking delid my shit to get like 30C lower temps, can't upgrade to kabylake, and a fucking gen 1 eight core zen processor with kabylake IPC goes for under $200 and can even be OC'd to around 3.9 GHz with a $20 aftermarket cooler on a $50 B350 because of how god dam energy efficient it is. I and most of Jow Forums who bought into kabylake and even coffeelake are NOT happy campers and we usually try to bash AMD any way we can to cope that we got nickel and dimed just like the applefags
Nice falseflag
>gaming and other applications that matter
>gaming matters
theoretical benchmarks for CULL OF DOOTY don't beat real world price v performance numbers
YES IT DOES because gaymes are still for the moment one of those things that cannot use more than 4 or even 2 cores efficiently so by extension that are a true metric of IPC unlike say x265 video encoding upon which intel is obliterated at.
This.
Reminder that Quake was used for benchmarking CPUs back in the days alongside productivity software.
Using video games as a metric too is nothing new.
OP never mentioned games. Dunno how I'm the one moving the goalposts when everyone here is taking one isolated scenario where Intel wins and presenting it as definitive proof of superiority.
>gaymes are still for the moment one of those things that cannot use more than 4 or even 2 cores efficiently
lol
I FUCKIN WISH desu senpai. I'm stuck with my piece of shit trashheap until I save enough to buy a zen 2 motherboard and processor. Zen 1 imho was okay but zen+ wiped the floor with intel else the i9-9900K frankenstein that 90% of Z370 motherboards REFUSE to support its (((((95W))))) TDP would NOT EXIST.
What's worse zen1 fags got a free upgrade to zen+ motherboard-wise. What did we get? A middle finger from intel telling us to pay 400 fucking dollars just to get 5% better performance than a 2700X with shitty RAM.
JUST
Yet his statement is true unless you buy AAA productions for NPC
He's right though, how else do you explain the i7-7700K destroying intel's own 6-core processors? See
>i'll buy the latest intel chip
good paypig
Because that graph shows average fps. 1% minimums are shit with less than 8 threads.
1% minimum aren't as relevant nowadays with Shitsync and Goy-sync
We don't care, if everyone looked at 1% frames NOTHING would make sense anymore. If you're going that low level then you're better off looking at average frame time by percentile, that's clearly indicate where frame stuttering happens more.
>"Intel beats AMD in certain games" would have been accurate
Intel beats AMD in majority of games period. You'd need to cherry pick real hard to find a game where a OC'd ryzen with really really fast RAM that beats the 8600k and up.
>purposely ignore how the 8400 and up beats anything Ryzen has to offer
Okay this has nothing to do with le intel vs amd meme battle but I just want to point out:
Vsync, Freesync, Gsync, and all other variants of adaptive sync do not, and never have, impacted stuttering caused by CPU/memory/GPU hiccups. They can help prevent screen tearing, but they do not do anything, at all, for stuttering (except that caused by dropping below the target refresh rate in Vsync, but that's not the same as hardware-based stuttering).
For those of you who disagree, let me ask you this: let's say your CPU has a hiccup and momentarily hangs. Your frame rate was a constant 60fps but the frame on screen when the processor hiccuped stays up for an extra 50ms (~3 frames worth). How, exactly, is the monitor going to fill in those extra 3 frames that never got rendered and are now missed? Freesync, Gsync, and any variant of adaptive sync or Vsync do not and never have claimed to fill in missing frames.
Stuttering caused by hardware or software (other than misusing Vsync) is not fixed or at all affected by adaptive sync.
>pay double for 10fps
yeah sweetie i dont think so
LMFAO, good one
thats what you do when you pay for 2700x + b-die RAM istead of the 8400 like
>100% more expensive setup for 7% more performance
>being this new
Intel during the P4 and PD era was literally slower than Athlons yet they still had a more expensive CPU.
Intel then coughed up Core2Duos and Core2Quads that wiped out AMD off the map for a decade.
The first i7 was a massive success and the 2nd gen i7 was so good that it made AMD fanboys switch.
Compare this to 2018, all of Intel's 9th gen and 8th gen parts are faster than 2nd gen Ryzen and the only thing holding them back are stock and prices.
If AMD survived 10 years producing garbage then Intel is pretty much fine.
>NO NO THIS CANT BE HAPPENING
>DONT YOU DARE BUY AMD YOU FUCKING GOYIM PIECE OF SHIT
the ryzen build in pic related was ALOT more expensive than the intel one
Relative performance graphs are a meme.
A lot of the included games are not CPU intensive and benchmarked with maxed out video settings, if you play those games buy AMD.
You buy Intel for those few CPU bound games to play with high refresh rate and low settings, that's where Intel really kills AMD.
my 2600 was $75 cheaper than an 8400 when I bought it last week.
The prices are about the same actually. Either way the i5-8400 has been curb stomped by a chink processor
$80 high end B450
$150 3200 CL16 2x8 RAM kit
$160 ryzen 2600 CPU
$20 hyper evo 212 cooler
$410
vs
$60 B360
$110 2666 CL16 2x8 RAM kit
$220 i5-8400 CPU
$390
>RAM costs the same as the CPU
Well that's the downside on zen+, see It's still a better deal given how you can upgrade to zen 2 imho. I highly doubt intel will keep compatibility with ice lake given how they'll need to clock their chips to around 5.5 GHz to compete with 4.6GHz zen 2 chips.
>slower single core
While i am keen and invested for ryzen 3000 series, I doubt it'll get close to 5ghz all core. We can probably expect to see like 4.5.
Please don't cite "7nm" for some enormous gain in speed. We went from 45nm nehalem able to get 3.5ghz to 14nm getting 5ghz, but people tout going from 12nm to 7nm as if it'll gain 20% speed.
There's a performance sweet spot between GHZ, Threads\Core, and Cores\Processor of around 6-8 Cores, 4.0-4.5GHZ, &~ a thread count per core of double the total core count. You increase Core Count, or GHZ, or Thread per core count, and the others all suffer. That Sweetspot is here to stay for another 2-3 years; buying more isn't likely to make you have a better gaming experience. Even with a high-end GPU, you won't max out CPU Utilization.
This is primarily driven by the paralellizability of processes in games; the more processes you run in paralell, the more bottlenecks and bugs you have to address. Lots of game engine companies and VR companies are focusing on performance, it's the entire reason RTX was done with raytracing, it scales better.
The PC has also become an 5-10 year investment, not something you switch out every 3-5 years. A higher memory cap tends to do better on the long-term than the short term across all hardware platforms and intel offers $200 Xeon's with a 1TB Memory Cap and more PCI-E Throughput. There's a value preposition there all of its own.
With that said, Intel is stuck on 10NM Fab until 2020\2021, while their competition is going to 7NM fab; that means Intel's competition, including AMD, can run circles around Intel for the short-term on both price, power consumption, and performance at all levels of the market which is going to allow AMD to make some serious inroads (20-30% market cap) into intel. I expect many consumers when faced with a $1200 Intel gaming PC and a $800 AMD Gaming PC of comparable specs will buy the AMD.
AMD can obliterate Intel in every benchmark under the sun, but its going to take a few years for them to recoup market cap. Expect some real steals on higher-end Xeons and I7's.
When does that really begin to affect benchmarks for gamers? When 8k and 10k VR panels become more widely available and those should hit late 2019 for enthusiasts and 2021-2022 for everyone else.
BTW one last thing. Expect the sky high pricing on Intel processors do go waaaay down. I'm talking What used to be $700-800 for the high-end CPU will, in 2-3 years, become $300. Market hasn't had price competition in a decade or so.
why do you flaming homosexuals care so goddamn much? amd finally did not shit the bed with a cpu and now intel doesn't know what to do. in response they made covfeffe lake which was like kaby lake but better in every way. then they raped their product segmentation, making the i9 9900k better than their HEDT line up. these days reasonable people (read: not raging faggots on the internet) realize that intel is good for tasks that desire good single core performance. that performance comes at a cost premium, and while amd has held the value segment for a decade ryzen isn't dogshit like bulldozer. not only is ryzen cheaper, if you don't need that single core performance you should get it because the performance discrepancy between amd and intel has nearly disappeared. its a great time to be in the market for a cpu
for now my 8700k is outstanding for playing games and cost a whole lot less than the 9900k that replaced it. maybe 5 years in the future ryzen will be able to put out the same fps as intel. who knows, but now intel has a fire under their asses. I wonder if radeon will be able to do the same thing with nvidia. there hasn't been a radeon halo product that went toe to toe with nvidia in a long time
see AMD is no longer 20% behind intel in ST performance like on zen 1. It's now more like 2-3% behind with good RAM. If zen 2 is going to be better than that and intel can't punk out even 10% better IPC with asslake they're done for.
>ryzen isn't dogshit like bulldozer
>intel's only advantage is single core performance at a cost premium
>intel has a fire under their asses
user can you read?
>these days reasonable people (read: not raging faggots on the internet) realize that intel is good for tasks that desire good single core performance.
>maybe 5 years in the future ryzen will be able to put out the same fps as intel.
Both statements are false because:
>zen+ has higher ipc than coffeelake
Point is the performance difference is so small it's not really worth considering anymore and given how an AMD system with good RAM is less expensive than an intel system with good RAM it makes no sense to consider intel anymore even for single threaded performance. In fact the only way intel has been able to compete is with the i9-9900K which no one is willing to buy.
Zen 2 is just more dirt on top of intel's coffin.
Unless something weird as i don't know, people start to use vulkan/DX12 like the newest IDtech engine is doing and CPU turns completely irrelevant to gaming.
I heard zen has a lot of bios issues and software incompatibility
>"gamma gamma mu" after every processor name
Genuinely curious, what do those mean?
see
Zen 1 definitely did and even on zen+ windows updates broke some stuff with adobe but no processor is perfect just ask intel and their swiss cheese hw cpu security
>entertainment programs
Thanks for the laugh
I suppose its marspeak for Ghz.
Ah yeah, that makes sense. Well I mean, it would make sense for "GHz" to be the thing following the numbers, but it makes no fucking sense that gamma gamma mu would represent GHz. Weird.
You're still a few years away from that happening. They still have to clean up Rajas mess and get a new design. 2021, MAYBE at the earliest for that.
expect new emergency editions although the 9900K already seems like one
Im so glad i bought an 8400 at launch for 180 last year