Why do so many CS fags cry and moan because they have to do math? I seriously do not understand this...

Because math classes are extremely boring and don't actually teach anything besides memorizing formulas? It's not math that's the problem, math classes at school are just garbage.
You probably only have to take up to calc 2, not really hard don't worry about it.

>Because math classes are extremely boring
Okay so you can go study English or Social Studies, or whatever it is that brainlets go to school for

It varies wildly. That’s part of the problem. A friend of mine’s school only requires Calc1. Meanwhile my degree path has me finish Calc3 by sophomore year and linear algebra after that. You’ll have to ask your academic advisor.

Wasting time memorizing formulas and then memorizing how to work through said formulas doesn't make you smart, it makes you a retard because computers can do that 100 times better than the best mathematician. What you ***learn*** in school math classes is entirely useless.

>There are schools that are changing their curriculum to require less math or offering an "arts" computer science degree instead of science.
Yeah that's a fucking joke. Let's just take Calculus out of physics degrees while we're at it. God forbid some special snowflake doesnt get their way.

if you couldnt do calc 1, youre fucking retarded and should drop stem

most people who get a cs degree won't be using any real math in their crud enterprise web app or for sysadmin shit, so who cares

just shut the fuck up you retard, no one cares what goes on at your local community college.

It's not about memorizing formulas, it's about learning what info can you get by using the formula.
But I guess a brainlet is never going to use math to solve a problem.

>dur math is so easy dur so useless
Yet faggots like you fail it every semester, so what does that say about idiots like you that can't pass it? Why can't you pass it if it's all memorization?

Shut up faggot. Go take your pseudo degree and shove it up your fat pasty ass faglord.

>the rage of a cc student who cant pass calc 1

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I am not a CS student but it seems to be something like

Pre-Calc
(Algebra, Trig, Functions, Limits)

Calculus I-III
Integrals, Derivatives, same thing for multivariable functions, ODEs

Linear Algebra
Vector spaces, normed spaces, inner product spaces, and their properties

Discrete math and stats possibly, no idea about how deep though

I don't think you touch the proof based courses, with perhaps the exception of linear algebra, so no fun abstract algebra, analysis, differential geometry and topology, functional analysis, or more computational things like calculus in the complex plane, tensor calculus and the like.
All in all, you should be fine with it if you do plenty of exercises, I've seen plenty of people that don't even like or are good with math get through those just fine with enough time or effort.

Nice assumption fag.

why every CS guy is so retarded?
what do they learn in there?

when you resort to ad hominem that's when you know you've lost.
>It's not about memorizing formulas, it's about learning what info can you get by using the formula.
In school they just put the formula on the board and you have to learn what the hell it actually means by yourself. Did your calc class explain what a derivative actually is, what it's used for, and where Calculus even came from? Mine didn't. Just memorized how to do to, wrote it on the test, rinse repeat like a biological computer.
Some people aren't good at memorization. I'm decent at memorizing so I can do okay.

These are the math related classes I have to take for an associates:

Calculus I with Analytic Geometry

Calculus II with Analytic Geometry

University Physics I

University Physics II

Is this normal?

what the hell...?
are you real, dude?

>In school they just put the formula on the board and you have to learn what the hell it actually means by yourself. Did your calc class explain what a derivative actually is, what it's used for, and where Calculus even came from? Mine didn't. Just memorized how to do to, wrote it on the test, rinse repeat like a biological computer.
They do show where it comes from, the limit definition of a derivative for example
The meaning you refer to is a geometrical representation, which works fine at this level, but you can't depend on it always for more abstract courses for example. But they should show that too in these cases as those are still computational courses, "real math" only really begins once you start with the proof based courses, in this case, the formal take on calculus would come in real and complex analysis.

yes, it is normal
CS is like 1.5 years of Engineering

Math gives me headaches.

>Did your calc class explain what a derivative actually is, what it's used for, and where Calculus even came from?
No, but since I'm not a spoiled brat I took a book from the library and learned that it wasn't hard at all. My first try at calculus was shit because the teacher is forced to make a class for the big number of tards that don't really care about learning.
If you don't understand the teacher, then look for another way of learning and stop crying.

This user is right. The way math is approached in burgerland completely fucks it up. It all starts with state mandated standardized testing. Why take the time to make sure every student completely understands the origin purpose and different uses of specific formulae when all they have to know is how it will be used on the test that determines whether or not that teacher keeps their job. And that's well before the university system, where the professor is typically at absolutely zero risk of losing their position regardless of student pass rates, so they REALLY have zero interest in making sure their students are prepared. My first college Algebra course was taught by a Russian lady who's accent was so thick I don't think a single person in the 300 person ampitheatre knew what the fuck was going on. Day one she just rambled incoherently for like 30 minutes, assigned 100 problems for homework, and bounced. That is why burgers are fucking retarded on average, our education system is completely broken.

CS is a meme degree, if they dont like math theyll probably use that degree to go into computer repair

It's obvious that CE or Computer Engineering is the true patrician degree for men. Being a Cuckputer Sciencuck is lmao @ ur life.

a professor in my university called "the fake engineering" to computer/software engineering

>assumes one can't cheat and pass and learn nothing

I tried, it didn't work, now I am studing for another exam...

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Looks fine to me, there seems to be a lot of variation between colleges.

Analytic Geometry is basically basic Linear Algebra if they want to stay away from proofs most likely, basically it is the more computational version of the course, should cover 2D and 3D vectors, planes, matrices, inner products, norms and the like.

Physics should probably be calculus based physics, so basic classical mechanics and waves maybe, shouldn't even go as far as into the mechanics part of it, so no lagrangians and hamiltonians for example, but I don't know.

Yeah man, I just finished my Calc III class
This class was way harder than it shouldve been for me. My teacher didnt teach anything and made his tests a 2 hour endurance test. I only passed by teaching myself everything during my lunch breaks at work.

I really shouldnt have taken 5 stem courses with 40 hour work weeks this semester

Most CS courses are IT courses because there are not many computer science Jobs, there are many developer/IT jobs.

I'm studying maths and IT. The job I have now is clicking buttons to provision chromeboxes and taking storage inventory. People don't know how to truly utilise these degrees and they don't know what is being studied.

The technology works is a very few select people invent something new and interesting based on their scientific/mathematical knowledge then 99% of jobs working with that system is mundane data entry that you still require a degree for. So all these kids go into University to get a degree so they can manage some SQL database and then they're confronted with a bunch of knowledge they will never use and have no interest in but the companies hiring think that this knowledge is required.

Pretty much This. I have zero interest in being a software dev or being a cyber security analyst of any of that shit. I would be 100% happy to chill in some 80k IT job managing networks, however, getting an IT degree from my colleges school of business wouldn’t be fucking worthless compared to a CS degree from the school of engineering, and I get stuck having to eat shit through math classes for four years learning stuff I will never ever ever ever ever use because corporations don’t know the fucking difference between IT/CS/CE outside of Silicon Valley

Would* be worthless compared to a CS degree

>managing networks
I work in that
I'm so sorry

Is it really that bad? It seems like a mundane job sure but from most people I’ve talked to it’s basically the cushiest most braindead easy job that still pays above average

most anons posting about network or database management seem to spend more time in the IT room fucking around on Jow Forums and vidya than anything else

>Another exam
>Those notes
If you want to understand what the fuck are you doing write some fucking words/comments between each line, just like you comment your code.
Example
>I have this equation
>*Equation
>This equation simplifies because I have this condition *condition
>*Simplified equation
>This simplified equation is solvable by this formula
>*Formula
>Applied this formula the result is this
>*Result
Seriously, is not that hard. Do it.

it is a strange job
you do almost nothing, but it drains your life slowly and it has a bad salary. when you realize it, it is too late.

What the hell does that mean? Just fucking quit if you don't like the job, what's the big deal?

well, everything is write in there with words.
It is like read music, both have their own words.
it isn't hard, you only need to learn it

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what do you make? I want to move to montana, which is not a tech hub by any means but BoL statistics shows mean entry level salary for network management is like 80k, which I would be satisfied with to start

>not EE + pure math
What a mong

I don't know about your case user, but all of my good teachers said the same thing about writing math
>If you don't write actual words/comments/explanations/ideas/text between each line of equations and formulas, you're just writing gibberish and no one cares about gibberish. Read whatever textbook you like, there's always paragraphs and even complete pages of normal text between each math line.
And he'll, they were right. Not writing text between formulas is good for problems that only require a couple of lines to be solved, but for everything else, a couple of comments always help.

While on calculations it mostly flows fine without writing, it's useful to write so you know quicker what you were doing when revising something, especially as complexity increases.

However, while this might work fine here, once you're writing proofs, you HAVE to write and be specific.

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music is an applied math.
art is an applied math.
psychology is an applied math.

music is represented mathematically, but that does not mean it is math.

>the limit definition of a derivative for example

This only really makes sense if you actually go over epsilon-delta examples and show what can and cannot be done.

It is math. The reason certain frequencies of sounds sound good is because of math.

Oh yeah, of course, I just assumed that was seem normally, but I guess that's not always the case.

the reason why standard tuning was set the way it was was entirely arbitrary and stupid
it's set to the second which was also pretty fucking arbitrary at the time when someone decided C was gonna be 440 hertz

Because these people are delusional. They think CS is a degree where you learn to program, which is absolutely ridiculous.

But that is absurd, most of the science of computers are applications of mathematics.

Not really. All of them use applications of mathematics, none of them were the result of mathematical research.

I studied math to become a good computer scientist and I work as an electronics technician.

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do you consider physics applied math too, moron?

It really depends on the arguments, sometimes you can really do long chains of deductions and computations, but other times you can't and need to explain your arguments.

>The reason certain frequencies of sounds sound good is because of math.

I know you don't actually know what you're talking about and that there's isn't any rigorous way to reason about what sounds 'good' via mathematical principals that don't break down fairly quickly. If common harmonics with lower integer ratios are relatively more pleasing, it's likely because the human ear adapted so that the most prominent frequencies in a given bare tone sound the least dissonant. That this is the case is a matter of physics, which naturally relates to math. But, the thing is, this logic doesn't apply to the higher, less normally audible harmonic ratios.

the reason in C that the characters * and & are used to reference/dereference pointers was entirely arbitrary and stupid.

the reason http returns a response code of 200 for OK is stupid and arbitrary.

How exactly is math needed to program?

Why was + used to denote addition, and - used to denote subtraction? seems pretty arbitrary and stupid to me.

Because without it you wouldn't have your precious vidya

>The reason certain frequencies of sounds sound good is because of math.
No, it isn't.

If you want to prove me wrong, give a mathematical definition of what sounds good.

And it isn't even the case that mathematics describes this, but physics does. Mathematics doesn't know what a "sound" is.

the concept of removing an amount from a pre-existing number or simply having a base-10 numbering system that counts up from 1, or even a symbol that denotes nothing, zero is pretty fucking arbitrary

It isn't. But if you go to university to "program" you are retarded.
It's computer SCIENCE.

>CS fags
they retarded in general

I recommend you educate yourself here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmony

>don't know trig or vectors
>can't do any 2D or 3D transform
>bye graphics

>don't know calculus or ODEs
>can't write even the simplest simulations
>bye games, and the entire part of the market that deals with simulations

I scrolled through it and it seemed to contain almost no mathematics and it begun with "in music", which indicates it has very little to do with mathematics.

Dude, we know you don't know what you're on about and only have a layman's understanding of what you're talking about. The fucking wikipedia page doens't offer a definition of harmony in terms of math, it can only offer basic guidelines of what sort of seems to sound more or less dissonant. You don't seem to understand that seeing a bunch of numbers describing tuning doesn't mean that musical pleasure is 'really math'.

Mathematics allows us to divide a frequency range into tones and come out with a set of pitches that harmonize with each other, it does not tell us why certain divisions sounds better than others, you absolute fucking brainlet.

Only autists think math describes the universe and isn't a deeply flawed human instrument for describing and and predicting the universe.

If you don't believe me, go check out the insane number of magic numbers used in physics.
Many of them aren't even constants in any meaningful sense, they're just there to make equations not fall apart right away.

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>Only autists think math describes the universe and isn't a deeply flawed human instrument for describing and and predicting the universe.
>go check out the insane number of magic numbers used in physics.
Why are you arguing about math and use physics as an argument?

since most people tend to agree what sounds good and doesn't regardless of their tastes, can good sounding music be defined objectively, and is the formula for good sounding music deterministic in nature?

>I scrolled through it and...
Maybe if you tried reading it you'll actually learn something, that is if you're capable of reading a short Wikipedia article.

>I don't understand it, therefore you can't understand it.
Your post is a perfect example of this psychological phenomenon: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect
I suggest you read up and learn a bit about yourself. ;)

Because he's one of those idiots that thinks "hur physics is math" like the one saying music is math in here

Once you past a certain level, math stops describing observable reality and becomes the realm of irreconcilable autism.

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exactly, morons need to stop saying physics is math when physics clearly has its roots in philosophy.

Music is heavily steeped in mathematics, especially in regards to creating melodic and harmonic structures or designing sounds.
Yes, it can be defined objectively, but we are only on the cusp of that definition, further study and a deeper understanding of neuroscience is still needed.

>Music is heavily steeped in mathematics
Possibly, but what does that have to do with what I said.

Would you be willing to put forward that conscious thought and the human personal agency are deterministic in nature?

The point being made here is that mathematics is a tool for creating harmonic and melodic structures, it does not explain to us why music sounds good and nothing in that article touches on why music sounds good, only the history of harmonic structure and how harmonic structures are defined.

>physics clearly has its roots in philosophy.
So does math, just look at ancient Greece.

Are you retarded math is never observable, that is the entire point.

Care to join me on a trip to the Shadow World, user?

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>Maybe if you tried reading it you'll actually learn something, that is if you're capable of reading a short Wikipedia article.
Give a mathematic definition of what sounds good already...

Are you mentally deficient nigger user said once maths stops DESCRIBING observable reality, you illiterate monkey.

I am just pointing out that music does in fact have a lot to do with mathematics, or more precisely, music has many mathematical implementations, contrary to your belief that:
>it has very little to do with mathematics
I am a determinist, no free will and all that jazz, have been for many years.

Mustard race
Depends on the school/program, my CE is mostly EE with computer architecture/operating systems type courses. Everything from cache/memory design to CMOS layout/sizing to realtime operating systems to embeddded systems. Meanwhile software engineering is generally CS+, most interns I've met in software engineering are literal pajeets who don't consider being an engineer as anything more than a slight wage bump. Obviously though, depending on the uni the lines will be drawn a bit differently.

only retards dont see how math pops up ALL OVER nature
the Fibonacci sequence is everywhere, most of the weird constants in physics come from measurement rather than math, and shit even things like imaginary numbers that people always thought were superficial math bullshit ended up being fucking fundamentally important to all science and engineering

lots and lots of crap that's built into our universe and are fundamental to how everything works can only be discovered or derived through math

youre a fucking retard

I'll going slightly easier on him. Can you explain why, for instance, a major seventh sounds so much more dissonant than a seventh chord with an interval of a semitone in it (such as one in second inversion)? Because if you can't then you're basically admitting you have offered essentially nothing.

Well, at my uni there's a BS track and a BA track. The BA track is less math and science, but that isn't why it's there. I originally was in the BS, but switched to the BA because it allowed me to switch some theory heavy courses like Automata and Formal Languages for security related classes, which is what I am specializing in. It isn't due to the math and science requirements, I'm minoring in math and over time finishing a BS in it.

Math NEVER describes physical reality, that is physics.

>contrary to your belief that:
>>it has very little to do with mathematics
I was talking about THE ARTICLE.

>ended up being fucking fundamentally important to all science and engineering
It isn't, it is just a way to calculate things.

>math pops up ALL OVER nature
Physics does, or chemistry or biology.

>lots and lots of crap that's built into our universe and are fundamental to how everything works can only be discovered or derived through math
Physics, is the word you are looking for.