What are some windows bugs that are still present since 95/98?

That must be really annoying if you're called Con and want a directory to be called your name

The move isn't about ridding the platform of legacy programs its to control every bit of code that is executed in the platform, dramaticly reducing your choices and with that becoming the gatekeepers of what works and what doesn't on Windows. No matter how you try to paint it, it is not a good picture.

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modern Winshit directly descends from NT, not 9x or MS-DOS that were entirely different code bases even if they functioned similarly

this is why nobody takes people who complain about "legacy shit" very seriously because they barely even understand what they are criticizing to begin with, let alone have the ability to properly articulate why they are criticizing it beyond minor inconveniences in edge cases or it just being bad because it's not new and trendy

daily reminder that progress for the sake of progress is not progress at all

You say it like it's a bad thing.
Win32 is literally the only thing keeping Windows alive, people use Windows because of legacy support, or we'd all be using linux.

(Checked)
This is why I had a lot of faith in Singularity/Midori - dropping NT entirely would be a great way to force everyone's hand. Alas, it was not to be.

Modern Windows has 9x stuff in it. Win32 was introduced in Windows 95.

>people use Windows because of
Legacy support
Games
Office
Photoshop
CAD
DAW
Video
Sane IDEs
Drivers
Familiarity
Consistency
Stupidity
A million other things
>or we'd all be using linux
An example of how simple solutions appeal to simple minds.

>windows 95 - 1995
>windows nt 3.1 - 1993

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Windows NT's API is called Native API.
Win32 is the API for Windows 95 and that line.

>Win32 was introduced in Windows 95

Doubles down on it's idiocy.

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Before you embarrass yourself any further user: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT_3.1

"In August 1990, as a response to the popularity of Windows 3.0, the NT OS/2 team decided to re-work the operating system to use an extended 32-bit port of the Windows API known as Win32. Win32 maintained the familiar structure of the 16-bit APIs used by Windows, which would allow developers to easily adapt their software for the new platform while maintaining a level of compatibility with existing software for Windows.[23]"

even if you weren’t completely wrong to begin with, implementing an API != direct lineage or shared code base, it’s like saying Solaris and Red Hat are the same thing because of POSIX compliance

once again, this is why nobody actually making decisions takes people who whine about “legacy shit” seriously, they know fuck all about what they’re talking about 95% of the time

There's one tiny part where he's right: much of the 9x and NT 4.0+ shell (Explorer, etc.) was nearly identical.

the thing with Windows and the PC platform in general has always been that its installed base is so massive and the platform is so well documented and mature that almost any conceivable use case has been catered to at one point or another by some developer somewhere, usually with direct experience or significant input from from people with direct experience in that use case themselves, while the GNU space is utterly dominated mostly by user-developers and hobbyists that don’t give much of a shit for developing weird niche professional/industrial tools in their spare time and tend to focus more on development tools themselves or big-picture common applications for the lowest common denominator like browsers and office suites

that isn’t to say there isn’t still plenty of strange niche software on Unix-likes as well, but if you can imagine something, it probably existed on Windows at some point

just as NT 3.1 was to Windows 3.x, but that doesn’t make NT any more a true descendant of those systems or even something significantly related, under the friendly, familiar explorer veneer it is an entirely different animal that is also far more modular than people think it is

>just as NT 3.1 was to Windows 3.x
Not really - there were radical differences simply from being 32-bit and 16-bit, respectively. NT and 9x? A handful of #ifdefs, max.

was speaking to the shell/interface only, though I haven’t really used NT3.1/3.5 much they seem pretty much as similar to 3.x as NT4 is to 95

but as I said, I haven’t used them really all that much.

Can't create .gitignore, either.

As was I. The Program Manager, File Manager and Control Panel (for example) were quite different between DOS-based Windows and NT: 32-bit (different compilers, enough differences between Win16 and Win32 to more than just be a few #ifdefs), reliant on the registry (rather than .ini files), the whole console subsystem (rather than just pushing it to DOS to handle that sort of thing), etc. - all this just at the shell level, before the contents of the Accessories group - NT Write or Cardfile sure as hell wouldn't have run on 3.1, and Win16 Clock and Paint would have ended up in the WOW32 penalty box. Compare and contrast to how many bits you could have swapped back and forth between 9x and NT 4.0 without problems - if MS weren't using undocumented shell APIs that did vary a bit between 9x and NT, admittedly. And the accessories? Drag and drop between them, no problems.

Wrong.
E:\>echo test >.gitignore

E:\>dir
Volume in drive E is TOOLS
Volume Serial Number is 60D0-A323

Directory of E:\

16/10/2018 20.15 SCRIPTS
29/10/2018 21.25 Utilities
02/01/2019 22.46 7 .gitignore
1 File(s) 7 bytes
2 Dir(s) 329,625,600 bytes free

E:\>type .gitignore
test
Further note, my E: is a FAT32 partition - this is no special NTFS magika.

All of the other things in your list boil down to familiarity. Adobe doesn't support linux because people don't use Linux for video/photo editing because Adobe doesn't support Linux. The real reason behind all of this is that Windows is the OS that comes on your computer when you buy it, as it and its ancestors have for decades. We all understand the concept of "use the right tool for the job" but the concept of changing the system underlying all your tools was completely alien to new PC users in the 90s.
>sane IDEs
Visual Studio is the only Windows-only IDE I know of, and although its debugger is great, nothing about it is what I would call "sane"

GNU userland is cancer, I agree. Thankfully, we have other options today that can mostly, if not entirely supplant the GNU userland. Check out Plan 9 from User Space, if you haven't. Slick little set of tools, and very clean.

Try that in explorer.

>a stupid shell bug is "can't"
I thought the GNU/Linux elite were meant to be smarter than us lowly Winbabbies?

>yfw windows native executables still start with a check for whether they're running on 16-bit DOS
I shit you not, do a hexdump of a Windows executable and check the first couple hundred bytes

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Yeah I guess you're right, I shouldn't make low quality posts.

You can even in explorer, just put another dot at the end when you try.

This is well-known, user. It's actually a feature, going back to well before you were born. I'm not certain if you'll get any hits (because the Internet is a ridiculous retrograde amnesiac at the end of the day), but try searching for "bound executables" and "family mode executables".

It's still a stupid shell bug though, and should be fixed post-haste.

Wait what? I guess that's good to know. But then how do I make a file called ".gitignore."?

case insensitive filenames
cmd.exe

I tried renaming the .gitignore to .gitignore. and now it just disappeared. WTF?
I think I found a new windows bug.
It re-appears once I refresh.
Putting two dots at the end doesn't give me a trailing dot.
Can you not make files with trailing dots in windows explorer then?

Okay, it gets better. I made a file called ".gitignore." but now I can't delete it using windows explorer.
Pic related.

I should add that this is a first; I'm a relative newfag (Aprilish 2015?) - but that's still nearly four years - and I've finally learned something from Jow Forums about Windows that I didn't know. I'm actually quite impressed - thanks, user.

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Whoops, new example image

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also: what if you're con-artist and for this reason want to store files in con folder?

Rename, then delete.

microsoft research bangalore sponsored this thread
pretty much every inbuilt application shits itself unless the filename extension is present, and many third party ones do too

Same result. Has to be renamed or deleted manually from the shell.

Create it with the NT API (CreateFileW(), with path parsing off). The reserved device names are at the Win32 level.

interesting details, makes me want to try 3.1 even more now if I can get the appropriate system ready for it
don’t think I’d really describe it as a GNU problem necessarily, more just something inherent to the nature of the platform and its user base

but that’s not to say I don’t still agree with you anyway

Just ran some tests on my 10 1809, and it happily let me delete a dotfile from Explorer, even without renaming. MS must have fixed that between 7 and now.

>case insensitive file names
this is a feature, there is no legitimate good practice where case sensitivity is advantageous

>69169002
>another boneheaded freetard wanders in and starts spouting on about shit he doesn't understand

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huh, interesting. you even guessed I'm a zoomer, though I probably made it a bit obvious. It's hilarious that that's even a problem that has to be considered, seeing as DOS was basically dead 20 years ago. I'm sure the pure size of some of these applications would make it impossible to even put them on a DOS machine in the first place.

This. And if you really need it for some ungodly reason, will do it, as it's another thing enforced by Win32, not NT.

I work with files with no extensions all the time with built-in applications, are you just stupid?

>I probably made it a bit obvious
Nah, I just made an assumption - but it's a safe one: Jow Forums is a very young board I've noticed.

He probably meant no file name component - which can be a bit of a bitch, as seen the last few posts - but yeah, it does demonstrate his excessive brain-damage if he can't even call it the right thing.

it’s mostly a precaution for Win9x systems in DOS mode than anything, but there are plenty of small Win32 applications that someone might mistakenly attempt to run on a DOS system, especially command-line and text mode utilities.

Nah, the MZ stub (as it's called IIRC) goes back to at least Windows and OS/2 1.0. Usually it just printed "This program requires Microsoft Windows", but you could bind full DOS, Windows, and even OS/2 text mode applications into a single EXE, and each environment would recognise it's "bit". Think of it as a really early, hacky fat binary.

I see where we’re going now, but it sounds like some retarded baby duck-tier shit to even be doing in the first place in a pure graphical Windows environment.

IMO the issue is that Microsoft is trying to hard to stay relevant - the automatic updates, the MS apps, third-party features, cloud connectivity, etc - it's all a means to try to keep up with Mac and Linux. The problem is that the Windows userbase don't care for such things, and only want a simple computer that just werks. Enough to write a document, receive and email, and play a game. That's all that Windows users care about, not all this fancy automated updating cloud connected app junk. Tbqh the best thing that Microsoft can do for their next OS is to basically re-release a remastered XP or something, not a brand new toy with shiny things. It's userbase don't want that.

Code quality varies a lot across the popular projects running on top of Linux, but GNU is definitely the best example of a project where quality is not the priority. They have some gems- GCC/binutils is still an incredibly effective collection of tools, and Nano is a solid example of simple, robust software. Besides those two, though, a lot of their stuff ranges between bloated (see cat) and painfully outdated (see gdb).
The Apache project is too tangled up in Java and XML for me to really say they're consistently better, but you can tell they have a much more practical focus than GNU.

>its userbase
Everyone?

that’s right, it’s been a while since I’ve worked on systems that early, I’m more used to later 9x-era software that instead prints that it can’t be used in DOS mode instead.

Much of freetards complaints boil down to Windows doing things differently from their beloved POSIX - and in their minds, are therefore by very definition "wrong". It's why they go so beserk, start screaming, spewing their ignorance, and even flat-out lies - it's like a religion to them. Imagine being a Wahabbiist Muslim, surrounded by Catholics 24/7 - that's life as a freetard. And they respond similarly.

Yeah, but I meant more specifically those in its userbase who care about computing and are computer enthusiasts.

It still exists ayyyy lmao

>the automatic updates
Of course they care about this - as soon as all their stuff disappears down the maw of Wannacry v2.0. I think there should be MORE remote attacks - it would make the normies think more about leaving online attack surface while being chuffed with themselves for typing SC CONFIG WUAUSERV START=DISABLED.
But this won't happen, so MS has to do it for them.

I mean that they don't to have automatic updates. It is widely agreed that a notification for pending updates, with the choice to download and install, is a much better system.

Incorrect - as demonstrated by Wannacry. The patch had been out for months, but a lot of people didn't install it, with predictable results. The reasons are multitude, but most boil down to "people are stupid", and "people are lazy". Old New Thing has a FIFTEEN YEAR OLD post on exactly this, and what the effects are - MS actually demonstrated supreme patience in waiting this long to force updates for home versions of Windows.

wannacry was barely a thing outside of a few corporate LANs, literally any shitty consumer router made in the last 15 years has a firewall that halts shit like this in their tracks

That one where you open a text file and it randomly deletes the text in front as you type

>firewall
Well, NAT, but I knew what you meant. Not to mention the host firewall in Windows itself. But guess what? When people have a big, easily-hit "off" switch for something, they'll hit it - every time. For example, half the Internet consists of guides to disable UAC - which when you really, truly understand what UAC is, makes your head explode.

Stop tripping over the Insert key, and you'll find this "Windows bug" goes away immediately.

Most of these features are part of attempt to better monitise Windows.
They are already moving away from requiring user lisences for Windows 10 because it’s a lost cause.
It might not be a good decision, but it’s the one their board has decided to go in on.

Shit I don’t think most of them even know it’s there, a lot of people on Jow Forums sure don’t. All those often vulnerable network conveniences like SMB and RPC are almost always comfortably shielded from the outside world by default, even if you turn a bunch of shit off on Windows itself.

>Volume Serial Number is 60D0-A323
I'm on it

What I was getting at is this:
>notification for pending updates, with the choice to download and install
Now:
>notification
Which means to Joe Normie who just wants to write a letter to Aunty Flo, or look at his mate's holiday snaps on Facebook, means "a fucking box full of words I don't want to fucking see".
>choice
Which means "a fucking box full of words I don't want to see - but OMG it's asking me a question and won't go away! WTF do I do??!!"
This is why half the how-to pages in the world turned into UAC disable steps when Vista landed: people (normies, not pros like you or I) hateHATEFUCKENHATE! notifications and choices - they just want to do their shit. In that environment, how can you trust the Fakebook-mouthbreather to do the right thing?

TL;DR: the choices were "educate users" or "force it on them". Guess which one won.

Good luck, mate - it's a VHDX I reformat frequently.

>Most boils down to...
People didn't know and still have never heard of wannacry. This is just your fantasy where you're better/smarter/whatever.

>Wahabbiist Muslim
you're very knowledgeable about muslim extremists

Autoupdate is the reason I haven't updated in years tho.

As you're either being deliberately obtuse, or are just so autistic you can't figure it out, I'll spell it out for you: you could substitute "Wannacry" for any remote, email, or whatever attack that has appeared over the last 25 years - and most of which would have had zero effect if we had forced Windows updates. This is the bottom line - if you just want to swing endlessly off the most recent example I saw on the telly, that's your problem, user.

I actually watch TV (as mentioned above - I'm 41 years old), which they haven't figured out how to effectively bubble yet.

So this is pure contrarianism, or what? It would help if I knew how many years: we've only had forced updates since Windows 10 Home (three-and-a-bit years). WU was fully-controllable until then, and worked the way likes.

Does anyone else like programming with the Win32 API?

I'm a Linux user, and I tend to avoid Windows, but I programming with Win32 stuff is my little indulgence. It feels retro and badass.

>It feels retro
Versus programming for POSIX?

But seriously, yeah, I don't mind it. I am a Windows dev, going right back to Win16. When I want a retro feel, I reach for the Open Watcom assembler, though.

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>Does anyone else like programming with the Win32 API?
No.
It's one of the most annoying worst designed APIs I've ever had to deal with. Only beaten by the crap Java comes with and people have written for Java.
I can do it for sure, but it's just so much work and so hard to follow afterwards. Even the most basic GUI takes endless nearly redundant function calls and the end result is just a highly controlled mess.

Only since I installed Win 10 Home. I didn't know you could just disable the Windows update service, I thought windows would restart it automatically. So instead I had to mess around with registry keys and group policy stuff and whatnot. And I feared updating would mean having to go through that again so I didn't even do manual updates. I thought of updating recently, but manual updates don't really exist anymore, it's just beta testing so fuck updates, I'm staying on my 2 year old Windows.

*nix programming is old-school too, but unfortunately I grew up with Windows instead of Linux, so getting to poke around in the API of the day feels nostalgic to me, even though I never programmed in it in the past

All this time working with interpreted/JIT languages is messing with your brain, user. Native API is any .dll that exports methods you want to call from Java/Python/JavaScript/HTML/PostScript

>Only since I installed Win 10 Home
OK, fair enough.

>I didn't know you could just disable the Windows update service, I thought windows would restart it automatically.
A pretty common myth, yeah, helped along by the ignoramus contingent on this board spew it ad nauseum.

>So instead I had to mess around with registry keys and group policy stuff and whatnot.
It's a good second choice. MS is loathe to admit it, but the vast majority of the registry keys Group Policy touches work just as effectively on home editions.

>And I feared updating would mean having to go through that again so I didn't even do manual updates.
Only for the "feature updates", where MS rams a whole new OS down your throat - but again, against most of the bantz here on Jow Forums, it's actually a rare occurrence for it to alter settings like that. Imagine the scream from the corporate world (which, little-known fact, most are running Pro or Enterprise - LTSB isn't actually that common in the real world) if it did. But yeah, the abovementioned ignoramuses have a tendency to conflate "cumulative update" with "feature update" - and MS could have made the naming clearer, too.

>I thought of updating recently, but manual updates don't really exist anymore,
Yes they do. If you're loathe to undisable wuauserv as a one-shot, hit catalog.update.microsoft.com, and search for your version with a timestamp. For me, I search "2019-01 1809 x64" - and bingo, there's your update(s), that can be downloaded and double-clicked to install.

>it's just beta testing so fuck updates
We're in an unstable period after a new feature update. It dies down quickly.

>I'm staying on my 2 year old Windows.
Mate of mine is still on 15063, he's happy enough, and he's still getting his updates.

Eh, I might update some day, but only when an update comes where the news day one aren't "they dun goofed" again.

He was conflating the Win32 API with the NT Native API - it is a thing, most of its usermode side is exposed through ntdll.dll, but it's a pretty niche thing, and not that well documented. You'll get pretty fucking familiar with it if you ever need to write a device driver, though.

Well, I would recommend at least getting your "cumulative updates" regularly - they're the old-school "patch Tuesday" rollups (which I probably should have mentioned above). They almost never go wrong, and on the one-in-a-billion they do, can be backed out of pretty easily with DISM, even on home editions.

How would I go about getting those and not the big ones? Can I just download them or just enable Windows update temporarily?

Of course, screensavers are only useful om crts.

I mentioned wannacry because its literally in the post I responded to, dumbass. Still on the fantasy about being smarter I see, relax your autism.

And OLEDs.

I gave you instructions here: . But it was a novel-length post, so I'll reiterate the pertinent part:
>Yes they do. If you're loathe to undisable wuauserv as a one-shot, hit catalog.update.microsoft.com, and search for your version with a timestamp. For me, I search "2019-01 1809 x64" - and bingo, there's your update(s), that can be downloaded and double-clicked to install.
Yes, they are big, because they're "cumulative": an update for (say) 1607 that you get today (which will be 2018-12) contains two years and five months of updates. It's one of the drawbacks of sticking with the old 10 releases - my 2018-12 update for my 1809 was just 70MB, whereas the last update for my abovementioned mate still on 15063 (which is what, 1703 or thereabouts) was 1.2GB.

I mostly meant to ask if just enabling wuauserv temporarily would be fine to avoid major updates but still get cumulative ones, sorry if I didn't explain myself well. Thanks for the help.

Cant rename files with long names.

One of the hallmarks of autism is that you have a tendency to be unable to look at the big picture, and instead fixate on the last tiny little detail mentioned in a, well, autistic kind of way. Now review our exchange - and if you're honest with yourself, and have any intellectual honesty at all, you might recognise your clear and obvious projection.