This here is the programming language dream team

>Python for scripting and prototyping.
no
python only exists for machine learning applications and similar uses

What are the advantages of go against c++?

based

lmao, no

It's designed by and for people who wanted a modern programming language, but stopped learning about programming paradigms and language features after C90 was standardised.

Imagine you took C, added a scheduler, channels and coroutines, removed manual memory management, and JUST fucked the syntax for no reason. That’s go.

Also the tools around Go suck and Rob Pike is a hack.

>Also, "hurr durr prototyping" is also a meme. Saying that you're "prototyping" shows that you have zero experience in software development. Python is a decent high-level programming language, use it as that.

Don't do this.

I've been industry 9 years, in my experience you always regret trying to use a scripting language as a programming language.

Something like Java, C# or Go is the sweet spot for most projects.

>>c
>>obsolete
>>python
>>soiboi scripting language
>>go
>>meme

Replace all of those with C#, Java and JS and you cover everything well.

Also, the half-assed implementation of dynamic linking, import modules directly from github without any version checking, and using return values for error checking and the fact that Rob Pike is behind it should be huge red flags and evidence that it was made by Unix dinosaurs trying to be hip and popular.

>I've been industry 9 years, in my experience you always regret trying to use a scripting language as a programming language.
>no argument
>"j-j-jjust trust me okay, I have nine years experience"
Yeah, no. Use a scripting language where it is suitable.

Nice meme

Rob Pike codesigned and implemented a fucking OS with great ideas.
What did you do?

>JS

whats the point of python and go if one knows C well enough? simple code can be written in C as well massive complicated projects

Just dump all your projects in one directory and let them free for all when building. It’ll be good.

What programming language should I learn this year. It's my dream to create software, I just need to stay dedicated.

>C#
Microsoft ecosystem
>Java
Pajeets
>JS
Web hipsters and SJWs

No thanks.

>UNIX
>great ideas

The answer will be obvious after you have more experience.

Please create a face recognition software in C which also recognizes movement on a camera and puts it into a graph with the same amount of lines as in Python

I think he meant Plan9. Not that anyone remembers it lol.

If Python was multithreaded it would have been the perfect programming
>inb4 scripting
language, why it isn't MT yet is beyond me

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good grief, in what world is python suitable for anything that goes into production

The only reason you can do that is if you build upon an existing framework (Keras), which again builds upon ML frameworks that are implemented in C, C++ and CUDA.

Also, there are a gorillean computer vision projects written in C, so please stop spreading misinformation.

This is a really bad answer.
All of those python libraries are executing C libraries. So you could very practically write the same thing in C using the same libraries.

give me one other use case than ML-AI domain where a python "programmer" can do a worthy job and earn a fine living

what software do you want to build?

Most of web backend, microservices and desktop applications. Most stuff that isn't performance critical actually.

>Please create a face recognition software in C which also recognizes movement on a camera and puts it into a graph with the same amount of lines as in Python which uses existing libraries written in low level code

Web development

>Most of web backend
Literally nothing except for Instagram runs Django or Flask (which is a piece of shit)

>do a worthy job
whatever that means

why don't you google search instead of being retarded?

django? tornado? flask? WSGIs?
its neither worthy nor worth paying for because clearly much better alternatives exist

>ML-AI domain
Guess whats insanely popular right now and will be for the next long years

>Literally nothing except for Instagram
Strange how my last three jobs all used Python for web backend then, and how there are 6 Python jobs to every PHP job opening on LinkedIn.

>it's not worthy because I say so and I get to decide for everyone
Protip: take your opinions and shove them, they don't mean shit.

I want to be able to secure networks and create system patches. I want to help people debug code and be able to spot vulnerabilities while creating my own solutions to solve them.

and there are 6 node jobs for every 1 django job

This here is the programming language dream team.
Lisp on the hardware.
Lisp for low level programming.
Lisp for mid/high level programming.
Lisp for scripting and prototyping.
Lisp as the operating system.
For general purpose programming there was no better singularity.

Attached: lisplogo_alien_256.png (256x150, 20K)

>web backend
every scripting language website I've worked on has hit performance brick walls

not to mention the constant regressions because you don't have static types and other compile time checks

>microservices
but why when it's so much much easier to deploy a single executable

>desktop applications
good god no, don't do this to your users

Using a dynamically typed language for anything other than scripts sounds like pure masochism to me. The larger the code base becomes the more it hurts.

Then probably C is the way to go

its not worthy because clearly much better alternatives exist
its completely retarded to use python for webd
its only useful in the ML-AI domain to which I agreed already

sauce: techempower.com/benchmarks/

Attached: pyfag.png (1197x907, 225K)

>but why when it's so much much easier to deploy a single executable
Python can be bundled with the interpreter into a single executable, holy shit you're tech illiterate.

>muh static typing
Python's strong, duck typing > C's weak "everything is just memory, bro" type casting

Thanks man.

>muh performance
Development time and time spent on maintaining code base > saving a couple CPU cycles

>Just bundle the whole python runtime bro!
lmao

C is literally the root cause for all those security vulnerabilities and the need for patching and if the developers had used any other language these issues would not even exist.

NO
consumers > developers

I write C and Python daily.
C is great: clear dependencies and with C89 it runs on everything.
Python is fine but it has to many special expressions for each and every use case and I don't like treating tabbing as syntax

Is Go worth it?

C barely has typing. Compare it with an actual strongly typed language like Haskell or Rust

Literally what C#, Java does. Even Go, since it can't into dynamic linking.

Sure, your already trawling the bottom of the barrel, may as well go all in.

Or compare the hardware C typically runs on to the type-tagged architectures of the Lisp machines.

>Just use C
/C++

Attached: C++ nene 2.jpg (1280x720, 110K)

>JS
The last time I wrote JS, I wanted to kill myself

> Hey look, I can code 5% faster in Python!
> *causes 80% more regressions*

>Haskell
Shit performance, shit memory use, few developers that know it

>Rust
Suitable for "gotta go fast" programs, same domain as C++. Not suitable for the domain where Python and PHP are popular.

Your consumers aren't going to give a shit if a HTTP request takes 500 nanoseconds shorter to complete, you're still going to be bottlenecked by I/O and databases no matter what language you use.

>I've been industry 9 years
Found the Pajeet.

Why not both? Dynamically typed languages are slower and increase development/maintenance time, especially for large code bases.

Development time includes testing and debugging, you dolt.

It's normal for Java programs to deploy with a built in VM now?
Odd.

>Dynamically typed languages are [...] increase development/maintenance time
Citation needed, because this statement is clearly pulled out from your ass.

>saving a couple CPU cycles
>he actually means a few million CPU cycles
>inside a loop

Somehow you're aware of the fitting domains for python an php and c++, but not for haskell.

Okay. I'm in the library rn and picked up orlys think python and a reference book with all commands. Also hacking with python and "recommandation systems with python".

I want to make game and utility apps and websites and the incentives and small programs to make them attractive, but also wanna be able to hack oneday.

Basically I wanna program software that makes money.

are you seriously arguing over something clearly being more than 10 times better
>you're still going to be bottlenecked by I/O and databases
at least not the requests which matters in the very large scale applications over distributed computing where server response time matter a lot

>It's normal for Java programs to deploy with a built in VM now?
>now
It was when I worked as a Java developer in 2009, which will be ten years ago in a couple of months, when we used install4j.

These days it's more common to add a trusted JVM to a dependency list instead and then the installer will simply pull that down from somewhere.

If you are running something performance critical, then clearly use C or C++, or even Rust. Don't say that Java or C# is better than Python and start arguing stuff where C clearly is superior.

>are you seriously arguing over something clearly being more than 10 times better
By which standards?

>at least not the requests which matters in the very large scale applications over distributed computing where server response time matter a lot
Server response time = network delay + process request + query database
Which one of those parts do you think introduce the most latency?

>a cute 2d baka is smarter than most of Jow Forums
Hard times...

Haskell’s performance is miles better than Python in pretty much every benchmark. It’s comparable to Java and C#.

>Haskell
>fitting domain for anything
Haskell is a meme. If you think calling a function that allocates 1 GB of memory that is immediately garbage collected after the call chains terminate is acceptable for any language, then seriously kill yourself.

You should create software first with passion not for monetary gain. Think of code as a way to create something unique from your imagination. It is now a piece of you. Do you really want to sell yourself?

>Your consumers aren't going to give a shit if a HTTP request takes 500 nanoseconds shorter to complete, you're still going to be bottlenecked by I/O and databases no matter what language you use.
Fucking web devs. People like you are the reason why everything is so slow on smartphones and the internet

Post literally one (1) benchmark that shows Haskell using less memory than Python.

Server response time = network delay + process request + query database

you know you can use different frameworks written in completely different languages for them right?

Network delay is in milliseconds magnitude, so you can take your microoptimisations and shove them.

t. Donald Knuth

There is a reason why nobody makes dynamically typed languages anymore and existing ones get type hinting retrofitted to them (Python, Typescript).
Dynamically typed languages have shit tool support (auto completion, refactoring) and no compile-time checks means you need to write lots of braindead test code that you'd otherwise get for free. Lack of good auto completion alone slows down programming massively in my experience.

>python is for söyboys but js isn't
top kek

We are discussing only one of those steps (process request). If that step does not contribute to the overall response time (because the network delay and database query time drowns it out), then the language and framework you use is insignificant.

You people always run around posting microbenchmarks when it's clear that none of you have ever done any real web development.

Good argument, but I'd still like to see some proof that it is because the tool support alone. There are plenty of statically typed languages that have longer development time than e.g. Python or JavaScript, see for example C++ and C.

You must be some special kind of retard of you use C for scripting.

C for low level programming

C for high level programming

Lua for scripting

Fast paced multiplayer games like counterstrike have the same limitation, but they are smart enought to work around it and make it feel fast (gabrielgambetta.com/client-server-game-architecture.html). Also: calling everything faster than python microoptimisation is not an argument.

Writing well software is worth it, saving developer time is not worth it.

Never said JS was good or fun to program in, it's just that web runs on this garbage. If you know JS, there is no point to knowing python, ruby, etc.

C for low level
Lisp for everything else.

>C for high level programming
C is great, but for gods sake I do not want do string operations in C.

Not everything you do is web related

(OP)
C++ is almost always a better choice than C.
The only two reasons to prefer C are:
>you are targeting a platform without a suitable c++ compiler (rare nowadays, but it still does happen)
>you want a simpler, easier to link abi

The rest is memes. Cniles also won't adimt that C++ is actually at least as portable as C if not more, as nearly all relevant C projects depend on GNUshit in some way (yes, even the Linux kernel).

>Fast paced multiplayer games like counterstrike have the same limitation
No, they only have the limitation of network delay. FPS game servers aren't I/O bound, i.e. they don't read from storage or query a database. Most web applications do, a vast majority of server response time is caused by waiting for I/O, not processing the request.

>Writing well software is worth it,
Well software is not synonymous with writing everything in C.

>saving developer time is not worth it.
It is when CPU or memory isn't the limiting performance factor.

If Python and C had a baby, I'd use that as a language
Even if it turns out it's just Python fucking Nim behind C's back.