Explain to me why Systemd is better than init

>Well-defined way of declaring dependencies instead of arbitrary execution order
Except completely arbitrary execution order is exactly what happens with systemd.
God forbid there's a hidden dependency nobody considered, or some obscure bug in the way two units interact - then it's almost impossible to properly debug because systemd tools suck and you're relying on guesswork.

"Standart" isn't even German or a reasonable typo for "standard" on a German keyboard. It may be Kreut, as said.

>Except completely arbitrary execution order is exactly what happens with systemd.
Wrong

>show me plis
There is an online documentation for fuck's sake.

Why is Jow Forums always spewing blatant and easily disproven lies when shlling against systemd? It's like Jow Forums has no idea how it works or even what an init system is supposed to do.

>Jow Forums knowing how anything works

> completely arbitrary execution order is exactly what happens with systemd
No.

> a hidden dependency nobody considered
The fuck. First of all, you then can simply see what dependency it was - it can't even remain hidden. Actually, you can probably see it in advance of it running.

Also, it would be a damn actual dependency and systemd is simply doing what it should.

> then it's almost impossible to properly debug because systemd tools suck
Fuck. No. The tools are WAY better than what the vast majority of inits had, ever.

Systemd has and always will be an NSA backdoor

And that's a good thing.

>Systemd has and always will be an NSA backdoor
Show us where in the sourcecode.

>reddit spacing

Any system with an internet connection is an NSA backdoor, so is any x86 implementation.

You spergs all bug out about anything shut the fuck up and do something for once in your life

Hey faggot, it's just a readable way to space shit. It's now just spacing. Also, kill yourself.

>attacks writing style instead of refuting points
Two X chromosomes detected, and by that I mean that you have trisomy 47.

I predate Reddit on the internet by a long while.

Your time may be better spent actually learning all the simple systemd tools like systemctl list-dependencies [-a], rather than complaining about systemd and post formatting details on Norwegian whale petting boards.

>There is an online documentation for fuck's sake.
ye so that doesn't prove that its actually a standardizet API you mong

it's not

>ad hominem to win debate
Congrats on being a retard.

>standart
>standardizet
This has to be some low effort bait.

>samefagging for (you)s

>gets called a retard
>calls the poster a retard back
Fucking retard. The "debate" was lost when you posted "reddit spacing" in defence of your poorly thought out and easily debunked lies.

>Your time may be better spent actually learning all the simple systemd tools
yeah nah, systemd is a fad that will fade when the first rootkit is publicly released

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Stop attacking him and acting like a retard like him you fucking mong. You clearly won against low hanging fruit, not a true patrician.

Samefag

bru...

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This thread is full of people throwing shit at each other, this board is fucking dead jesus christ.

>Shilling This Hard.

Does anyone have actual proof SystemD is faster when all other packages are equal? I dont mean ImaoBuntu with a thousand packages that actually require such a complex init system, I mean compared to a non-meme minimalist with a simple init script.

I will set aside personal grievances with systemD and use it if it is the better solution.

Will using systemd get me braphogs?

its actually caused by Op formatting, he wrote the equivalent length of a germanic word attracting mongs. if you write a bit more with some decent argument you will a better/dead thread

>Does anyone have actual proof SystemD is faster when all other packages are equal?
No one (that is worth listening to) is arguing that systemd is faster. The point is that it is more structured and organised and easier to maintain when you have a gorillean dependencies.

MacOS doesn't have this problem.

the actual truth is that systemD is a system manager and it made the point of no return meaning that distros wont strip it out because it does a lot of things for them.

>has even bigger mess
what is launchD

Wrong
voidlinux.org/news/2014/07/runit-by-default.html

fuck off

best init since init

Also doesn't start if there isn't a fucking apple on every piece of hardware. Not really a problem if you always know the absolute hardware state of the system and aren't forced into a wide range of support.

launchD shits on systemd and init soo.....

> a non-meme minimalist
I think your problem is in the very definition here.

Once you no longer have a lot of functionality, it's an overly specifically customized meme to most people.

> with a simple init script
Even then, it very much depends on how simple it is at that point, and what shell it runs on.
The average distro's init scripting [or the software it invokes] isn't nearly THAT simple, or it will either only work for a small user base.

openrc is better in every way imaginable

is the any distro thats not a derivation from a big distro that is free systemd?

yes, this is why maintainers in general like it. systemd lets them express requirements and dependencies for packages they maintain in a way that will probably work with whatever bizarre combination of 10k other packages users end up putting together on their system.

without the structure of something like systemd this ends up being a nightmare that only sometimes works and probably requires some coordination with other package maintainers in the hardest of cases.

...he just posted one user.
Infact any non-gcc distro can't use systemd

Isn't this unironically on freebsd now?

It's worse in most ways. Logging isn't quite as thorough or good, can't run services as users nearly as easily, not as easy to use as a watchdog for things like docker containers and ceph OSDs, not as easy to make react to various device events [ugh, trigger openrc or something else with udev...], and so on.

Well, maybe some of this was fixed since I tried it, but systemd was clearly better. OpenRC is merely "pretty respectable". If it fits your use, great.

The port is abandonware. Ubuntu tried to use it too, then made upstart.

>Infact any non-gcc distro can't use systemd
I don't think that's a fact. Got any sources?

Pretty sure you were able to compile systemd against a llvm stack. Maybe you could even do it with other compilers and libs.

systemd is better than (sysv)init, yes.
Now you explain to me why it's better than OpenRC.

I don't know how OpenRC works, so I can't do that.

>Wrong
you sure convinced me with those hot arguments.

>The fuck.
Hidden as in no one knows this unit has to depend on another unit.
Because systemd has a fully dynamic run order, you get inexplicable failures on random boots, while most of the time everything seems to work out.
>Fuck. No. The tools are WAY better than what the vast majority of inits had, ever.
The problem is other inits are vastly simpler. Systemd simply doesn't have good enough tools to handle the complexity it creates.

gayOS has something even worse - init based on XML configs.

>you sure convinced me with those hot arguments.
I'm not here to cater your silly bait attempts.

>Because systemd has a fully dynamic run order, you get inexplicable failures on random boots, while most of the time everything seems to work out.
WRONG
If you're just going to blatantly lie like the little lying piece of shit you are, I'm not going to reply to you anymore.

Nice way of discrediting anti-systemd shilling though.

>The point is that it is more structured and organised and easier to maintain when you have a gorillean dependencies.
so, sane distro's shouldn't need systemD?

>> a non-meme minimalist
>I think your problem is in the very definition here.
Pretty much everything that doesn't have systemD as dependency.

>The average distro's init scripting [or the software it invokes] isn't nearly THAT simple, or it will either only work for a small user base.
I'll have to admit, i'm not that knowledgeable on init systems. I run void and all programs/daemons I had to include were done with a single symlink. No complexity on my end at all. Not a single problem updating, restarting or when removing symlinks.

What is openRC?

>xml configs
based and redpilled. Using macOS now

>so, sane distro's shouldn't need systemD?
Any """"distro"""" has more than enough complexity to use it. user was talking about busybox and usebox Linux systems.

>symlinking rc scripts is a good way of managing complexity and dependencies
Opinions discarded.

If systemd is so good, why Devuan?

>what is openrc
An init and service manager created by Gentoo devs, based on some BSD's RC but better in every way. It's the most popular alternative to systemd and is capable of running without sysvinit unlike stuff like runit. Its init "scripts" are very similar to systemd's unit files, but you can still use them like actual scripts. Other notable features include parallel startup support, fine-grained service dependency control including stuff like optional dependencies being started before a depending service if present, runlevel stacking and some other fancy stuff. Sadly, it lost the vote for being the replacement to sysvinit on Debian with a score of ~49%.

Because autistic maintainers.

>not using runit
It just fucking works. Scripts are super simple and it stays the fuck out of your way like an init system should do.

>Not a good way to manage complexity
Good.

Thats actually usefull information. I'm checking how my init scripts are set up. Never bothered looking at this stuff.

>I'm not here to cater your silly bait attempts.
>everything I don't like is bait

>WRONG
OK

>If you're just going to blatantly lie like the little lying piece of shit you are, I'm not going to reply to you anymore.
You haven't given a single actual argument besides spamming "wrong" everywhere.
So I guess you fucking off would actually be an improvement.

>I won the argument because I pissed some stranger off with weak baits on an anonymous finish flyfishing image board
Not him, but you're fucking retarded user.

I installed Devuan a few days ago. Perhaps I should not have. Perhaps I wasted my time

I bet you're giggling like a schoolgirl thinking you're some kind of master troll

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Quality reply.

Nobody here actually knows what they're talking about.
without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd

>Here, just parrot these standard replies and copypaste them instead of thinking for yourself and forming your own opinion
This is the most NPC-like behaviour I've seen all day.

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It's a bibliography, brainlet, try reading it

Quality thread.

>without-systemd.org
>Arguments against systemd
It's literal autism, that's what it is.

So, the fact that one of the lead developers of SystemD, a software used in many linux distros, doesn't understand what su is supposed to do, doesn't bother you? You are fucking stupid, put a gun and your mouth

can someone tell me since when was startup a problem? why did startup get so complicated?

Linux deserve systemd because GNU is not UNIX!!! fucking retards!!

>some vague reference
You need to try harder. And no, it doesn't bother me particularly. Linus doesn't know how to fucking install a printer driver on Fedora, but he's still the creator of the Linux kernel.

> t. Poettering

Quality argument, you sure convinced me!

Software tends to multiply. So does its dependencies. Complex solution to a complex problem we have created.

reducing and culling bad designs is the linux way. Windows already exists and distro's with systemD is proof that corporate linux will just become another windows.

I don't convince brainlets of what they can't understand, I convince them to swallow lead

>is the linux way
UNIX retard, linux is a meme unixware crap

Being able to install a printer driver using distro-specific userland tools is not required for making a kernel. Knowing what a practically omnipresent SUID privilege escalation binary does IS required for making a userspace management tool.

sysvinit does have some limitations, so replacing it was not a bad idea. The problem is that systemd does a bazillion different things and also ate up other things like logind and udev for no actual reason.

>I'm unable to explain my position rationally so I tell people to kill themselves instead
Literal NPC

Still no link to the claim or any explanation at all. For all I know, user is upset that some systemd developer didn't know what a particular GNU specific flag did and spergs out because of that.

>look at all the meme buzzwords i can fit into a post guys!!!!

>drivers aka loadable kernel modules
>distro specific
Pick one (1)

> no link
It was in the "standard reply copypasta" that you refused to read, dipshit

Time to go back to the circus you fucking clown, why are you coping so hard?

Arch init scripts were the best part, FUCKING STUPID ARCH MAINTAINERS!

>Poettering disagrees with how su escalates privileges
>HURR DURR ITS PROOF HE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND ANYTHING DRUUURRRRR

Calm down, retard.

So, now that you've read it, your idea of a rebuttal is just blindly saying he's right? Are you some kind of systemd cultist who believes you'll be raptured for using it?

Seething