How hard is to make games with SDL+OpenGL and why agdg keeps telling me I should use an engine?

So you want your code to be obsolete now?

you don't own the code if you use an engine made from another person.

why are u on this board if you can't see this?

what if I want to develop a NES rom?

video game consoles are propietary
If you're a stupid fuck who cares about programming politics just don't bother, you'll never make anything valuable anyways because you have brain rot

cave story and touhou werent made with engines.

If you use godot or another engine with a permissive free software license then you 100% own the game.

You don't own the code of SDL and OpenGL as well. Why do you think there's such a significant difference? You'll always depend on something. In the NES case, you'll depend on the NES ROM.

all game consoles end up having homebrew scenes, dumbass.

godot doesn't export to consoles.

Is trivial to make all your library functions from the engine of your code to be independant of the library used.

t. proprietary malware developer

Ok, I lost patience for you. Get a brain or GTFO, I'm done here.

>Is trivial to make all your library functions from the engine of your code to be independant of the library used.
not really

>godot doesn't export to consoles.
it can but you need to pay a private company. Which you would need to do anyway to get an SDK. Very few people will play a homebrew game if that's what you're aiming for.

>all game consoles end up having homebrew scenes, dumbass.
and they're still propietary, what's your point? are you a freetard or not?

reddit.com/r/Games/comments/282l0k/jonathan_blow_on_using_his_own_engine_i_would/

>what is the demoscene
I want to be a top dog, not a fucking underage or bluepilled cuck working for a shitty game company making AAA garbage.

I wanna learn programming, and using a cuck engine wont let me learn game programming.

Imagine if I want to fuck a girl and you're telling me is easier to watch another guy fuck her.
That's basically using a game engine.

Jon Blow is a good programmer, you aren't

>That somebody will cease to support at some point in the future.
The fear that it won't be supported is irrelevant for an open source engine. You can update it just like you would have to do for your own engine.

Look up "Platform Masters"

Caring about software politics is the ultimate bluepill, you'll never be a 'top dog' if that's your attitude

I wanna become good, not another engine cuck.

It will be easier to simply try to master my own code than to spend years memorizing another engine code.

I literally almost lost several games I did on unity 3.5 because it stopped being supported.
2D fighter maker engine can't even be run on modern software.

All engines will become obsolete at some point.

all code becomes obselete if you don't update it
realistically games are ephemeral, if you care about making games use an engine, and I say this as someone who works with his own engine

Hey, I've got a really good programming exercise for you.
a, b and c must be natural numbers greater or equal to 1.
Find such a,b and c that it is true a^3 = b^3 + c^3.

If you solve it and post the code here, I can guarantee someone will teach you wizard level programming and you'll become a top dog very fast.

its direct-x but i learned a lot
youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqCJpWy5FohcehaXlCIt8sVBHBFFRVWsx

>SDL
nah, glfw

It will be easier to simply try to master my own code than to spend years memorizing another engine code.

I'm not making your CS homework faggot.

I'm a game programmer, not a CS cuck.

>inb4 is the same.

Thanks.

>It will be easier to simply try to master my own code than to spend years memorizing another engine code.
unless you have enough experience you won't know how to write a good engine in the first place, so that's not neccessarily true
do you want to be a programmer or do you want to make games
that's the important distinction to make
to answer your original question, making a 2D game from scratch with OpenGL is possible for a beginner, 3D probably not

You're not a game programmer. I'm pretty sure you don't know shit about programming at all. Hence, why you avoid writing that program, you wouldn't even know where to start. There are people who do and people who talk, you're the talking faggot. Even the guy that made flappy bird crap game is better than you, because he actually made a game, not like you.

why do u assume I need an engine to make a 2D game?

>but you need to write a fucking framework to make a game loop, some keyboard input, and a basic loop of entitites that render bits to the screen
???

I've made shit on rpg maker, unity, godot, game maker, since seven years ago, faggot.

I even made some stuff using libgdx.

>but muh CS shit
gamedev is not CS.

Yeah? Where are those games you made. Show them to us, we want to see. You're a filthy liar.

That's not what I said, I said writing a 2D game from scratch is possible, 3D game probably isn't

youtube.com/channel/UCxin7lE4MzV7pB5yE7n7CKQ/videos

I've seen some guys making a minecraft clone in one week in opengl.

those specific tutorials use his framework to get you going. check the rest of his channel for more advanced shit once you get to that point.

think its split beginner/intermediate/advanced and some random drops.

has a wiki n all that shit.

Minecraft is very simple, and they didn't make a full version of Minecraft, they just made a world renderer and maybe an inventory
A general purpose 3D game engine is out of the question for a beginner. You would probably struggle with a 2D one, but I think it's possible

lmao
youtube.com/watch?v=10s9ro9uG_s

why do I need a game engine for a 3D game?

>but you need to write a complex file manager, polished tools, implement readers for a hundred 3D file formats, implement a debugger, implement a linker, making a PBR rendering engine, make a shader renderer, make your own scripting language

All that shit is BLOAT.

Do u wanna develop a game or learn coding? Choose priority cause the not the same. Just happens to be close. Game development is not just code. Is also time management and avoiding loosing morale before u launch. Develop simpler programs if u wanna learn code. Games are much harder and time consuming than just an app. That is why game engines exist. Yo help u save time when developing games much like IDE help u save time developing apps. You could do both in text editor..... or almost.

All the games engines I've tried are shit.

>how hard
what's hard for you may not be hard for others, time efficiency and required learning is different: what do you determine the required knowledge to build a game without an engine vs with an engine to be? If you can't determine these, you need to start with something simpler.
>make games
what sort of games? you want to make a 3D game and do all the graphics programming yourself? that's going to be a lot of work. You want to make a 2D text + sprite game, that would be less.

I just mean the basic code to run your game. For a 3D game you need to program difficult things like a rendering/shading pipeline, transformation system that handles 3D rotation (quaternions and other such bullshit), culling, skeletal/layered animation, maybe shadows, physics, all of this stuff is too difficult for a beginner

there's already books on the topics.

I only need 3D backgrounds, not 3D characters.

SEVEN YEARS AND YOU DO ONLY THIS?! Are you not ashamed of that crap?! Dude, have some self criticism, I wouldn't waste my time uploading crap like that on youtube. I would feel bad if I was you.

start with 2d. sdl or sfml.
don't worry about artwork. there's plenty of tile sets you can get so you can practice.
SDL: youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhfAbcv9cehhkG7ZQK0nfIGJC_C-wSLrx

this guy makes a game engine just using win32 console and ascii
youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrOv9FMX8xJE8NgepZR1etrsU63fDDGxO

I only need to keep improving.

The reason I said they're too difficult for beginners is because there's complex enough that they're open problems and you don't have the experience to make informed decisions about how to develop them. having no animated 3D parts reduces the complexity somewhat but you'll still have to write a renderer that can do what you need it to do which is probably outside your frame of reference

For 7 (SEVEN) fucking years you should have already one good game on Steam and you keep doing bullshit like that instead of focusing on one thing and delivering it finally. MIERDA POR FAVOR!

Politics is the hardest part of learning OpenGL.
Have an old laptop that only supports OpenGL 2.x? Or hell, even 1.x?
Okay sure, write for the lowest common denominator.
Oh wait, everything pre-OpenGL 3.x is deprecated and won't run on modern machines without emulation anymore.
Oh wait, Apple deprecated ALL of OpenGL favoring Metal and won't run on OSX Mojave and up.

And don't even get me started on vendor extensions.

why would you bother supporting 20 year old hardware

>I'm not making your CS homework faggot.
not him, but I think that is a famous unsolved math problem

OpenGL ES 2.0 is the best lowest common denominator. GLES is more widely supported than desktop GL. Even computers from over 10 years ago and god-awful low-power ARM boards (e.g. RPi) support it.

What you pick is entirely dependent on your requirements, though. All I was doing was just some pretty basic 2D shit, so being limited to GLES2 wasn't too much of an issue for me, despite some minor annoyances.
If your program is actually rather intensive and does need the extra features, just target OpenGL 4.x or even Vulkan.

Backwards compatibility is nice, but there is a point where you need to start cutting some shit off.

This is so autistic, This person is never going to finish a game or a game engine, let them rot.

came here to post this, GLES 2.0 is the most popular graphics api in existence, it will be supported for a long time

Dont them about Vulkan.

Use SDL, don't use bloated game engine garbage. Being locked into a dumb framework sucks. I've tried all the popular engines and all of them have limitations that are annoying enough to drop them and just roll my own thing.

Fermat's last theorem has been proven false a long time now.

>how hard is to make games with SDL+OpenGL
Not extremely hard, but making your own renderer from scratch will be incredibly boring, especially if you don't have all the abstraction tools provided by C++.

>why agdg keeps telling me I should use an engine?
/agdg/ only ever makes hentai VN and 2D loli kidnapping simulators.

yes engines are shit but debugging your game + your engine can be very time consuming. There was this guy making a 2d game I think on twitch called handmade hero or something like that. He is making it for years and he was already an expert programmer . Try unity/unreal. U no like then move. Games are IMO among the hardest apps to develop given the needs they have over tool apps (graphics/sound/(maybe) story). Adapt or adapt slower. Weight pros and cons ur choice.

>U no like
Can you please not type like a complete retard?