Old software may stop working on new PCs in 2020

techradar.com/news/old-software-may-stop-working-on-new-pcs-in-2020

>Intel has announced that it will cease legacy BIOS support for PCs as the firm looks to fully transition to the more secure UEFI by 2020 – which is effectively the death knell for 32-bit software.

>That goes for other 32-bit software, too – at least when it comes to running natively – and there will be compatibility issues with some older pieces of hardware as well. Which is why Intel has maintained CSM thus far.

Are you ready for Intel's new uarch. Jow Forums?

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anandtech.com/show/12068/intel-to-remove-bios-support-from-uefi-by-2020
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can incel shoot themselves in the foot anymore than they already have?
nobody needs their shitty processors.

lack of backward compatibility would be the best thing to happen to competing non-x86 architectures

No one uses 32bit anymore

Pretty sure a fuck ton of programs are not 64-bit still.

nooo how will I run my 16bit DOS programs now!!!???

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So this was true after all.

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They should be.
What's stopping 32bit software from running in emulation mode?

>Packaging Engineer

Don't use Intel, but I hope AMD does not follow suit.

What you fags here forget is also that a lot of hardware with "legacy" BIOS modules do not work either.

Some new hardware still uses those.

what site is this

4channel.org

how do i go back

Turn 360 degrees and walk away.

yes, you need to put the silicon chips into a package. Good point.

Ask Alexa to take you back to R*ddit

uefi is literally shit on a stick, if i cant use regular bios i dont want it

>to fully transition to the more secure UEFI by 2020
2020 confirmed year of the botnet

Isn't this a good thing?

Feels good knowing SHITel is dead.

Not sure how they made the connection between 64-bit UEFI + secure boot and 32-bit applications not running on the OS. Whoever wrote that article hasn't the first fucking clue about computers really.

The fuck are they talking about?
Modern laptops don't ship with a UEFI-CSM and I assume the same applies to new desktop motherboards.
Besides, Windows supported EFI since Vista. If you're a regressive as fuck luddite who insists on running Win7 till the day you die, it's still possible.

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>I have no idea what I'm talking about

WineVDM for windows works fine

what nonsense bullshit is this lol?

>360
Dumbass people can't turn 360.

UEFI 3.x changed the GPU initialization and Win7 won't boot on boards with only that. You need to use at least Win8 or Linux
Still has nothing to do with 32bit software magically stopping working, like that article claims

Windows 10 still offers a 32 bit version that boots with UEFI.

anandtech.com/show/12068/intel-to-remove-bios-support-from-uefi-by-2020
>Once CSM is removed, the new platforms will be unable to run 32-bit operating systems, unable to use related software (at least natively), and unable to use older hardware, such as RAID HBAs (and therefore older hard drives that are connected to those HBAs), network cards, and even graphics cards that lack UEFI-compatible vBIOS (launched before 2012 – 2013).
It's irrelevant for everyone here. Your gaymes will still work fine.

99% of all PCs have a 64bit UEFI, the only exception are older atom tablets. 64 bit UEFI can't boot 32bit and vice versa.

Why don't they just ship the systems with 32bit uefi?

Maybe they are talking about 32 bit kernels/bootloaders? I don't think you can run 32 bit .efi executables on a 64 bit implementation but ofc you can run 32 bit userspace on a 64 bit kernel.

hm.....

I think they read the article they mention at the end and had no clue what any of it actually meant, so they wrote that bullshit

Assuming that were true, it would be a great business case study of a company shooting itself in the foot with a bazooka. Telling a big heavy chunk of their customer base to go fuck yourself and get with the times. Said customer base will invest in becoming platform independent and no longer even need x86 processors for anything, wiping out their main target market.

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This is non issue and a good move to kill off any obsolete parts of modern CPUs kept purely for compatibility sake. Less transistors wasted on useless shit and more left for actual IPC increase. AMD64 has been reigning for so long that for quite a while everything had x64 as a primary releade and x86 just for the sake of compatibility with old hardware. Pure 32bit software is so old by now that it could be easily ran through an emulation compatibility layer in the OS. It's jpretty much a DOSBOX case, except for 32bit windows apps.

>I hope AMD does not follow suit.
I hope they do
>a lot of hardware with "legacy" BIOS modules do not work either.
Like what? Things that you can't even plug into modern motherboards because they don't have the interface for them anymore anyway?

Kek good luck for those competing architectures. Too bad x86-64 is hundreds of billions of $ ahead in R&D so yeah, there's that. The difference between "competing" and "competetive"

It'll probably get emulated in microcode instead (assuming it won't be slow as shit, which is unlikely)

Does this mean that the new CPUs will be true 64 bit, and not a 48bit extension?

>Intel might stop working anytime soon.
No worries, AMD has your back.

No retard, you can run SeaBIOS as a UEFI package.
BIOS is BLOAT.COMed, UEFI just gives x86_64 what RISC Arches had since the late 80s.

Anti-UEFI people are just brainlets who think UEFI==Secure-boot (which can be good as well).

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>x86-64 is hundreds of billions of $ ahead in R&D
true to an extent
but only in a sense that x86 is protected by intellectual property law.
if non-technical protections were eliminated, you'd see a vastly different landscape

This might be the dumbest shit ever. x86 isn't going anywhere anytime soon. What are they thinking?

>Does this mean that the new CPUs will be true 64 bit, and not a 48bit extension?
That would be a complete waste of on-die silicon and address pins until you can actually physically put more memory than that in a single-CPU system. We're not even close to that.

ITT: Zoomers are amd because they won't be able to boot Windows 98 anymore

>Kek good luck for those competing architectures
you mean the architectures that have killed computer sales for the last ten years? pretty sure they'll be fine. x86 will become server and hobby use only and not general computer because the business market will make it so. We are going back to the mainframe type system of having thin clients hook up to a server and doing all the processing there. Kill backwards compatibility and you simply make it not worth running specific appliances and systems on x86 at all, think medical equipment, logistics, among others, add to that the shooting of the foot that Microsoft did with not updating Windows CE and forcing everyone into WM6 and then forcing everyone into WM7 and killing backwards compatibility and then doing it again with 8 and 10. Corporate institutions have been getting pretty pissed and aggravated with all this bullshit changing from year to year, a lot of on the field work that was dependent on windows is now done with android, remove windows dependency and you remove the need for intel at HQ, remove backwards compatibility and force corporations to update, they will make it platform independent. It ain't the 80s and intel ain't IBM, there are options.

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>but only in a sense that x86 is protected by intellectual property law.
Of course but it applies to any and all technology and will also never happen.

Dude.
Stop and think for a second.
2020 PCs
Fucking PCs from 2020.

If PCs from

> which is effectively the death knell for 32-bit software
> implying
I bet Clover can chainload 32bit anything off UEFI and UEFI doesn't deny loading 32bit OSes. It's just MS are retards and didn't implement UEFI for 32bit Windows.
Am I right?

>anymore
You can't do it right now either.
I haven't seen AHCI with IDE emulation mode since the Sandy Bridge era.

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>>If PCs from

Haswell mobos still had it, turned off by default.

Are you the schizo guy from that hidden Jow Forums thing thread?

Ahem.

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No, I mean, he's got a point. Jow Forums always buys old shit, by the time UEFI-only hardware becomes relevant (read: about $100), non-UEFI software will be obsolete and so there's nothing to worry about.

Comfy

Well noone fucking forces you, you have perfectly capable 64bit hardware.

It's still possible to dual boot windows and ancient OS's/Linux distros with uefi. This doesn't change anything, other then not being able to install MS-DOS on a modern PC - which I wouldn't be surprised if it's a reaction to all the people who keep pointing out that you can in fact install older software on modern CPU's - and not the fud Intel and Mircocrap shills like spreading that you can only install Windows 10 on modern architectures.

wait doesn't that mean you can't install GNU/Hurd anymore

>32-bit Windows
>4 GB of RAM
Why are you wasting 25% of your RAM?

look at me im so cool I use a legacy architecture

No, *nix has had UEFI support for quiet a while now.

Remember the 286? When Intel said "You need this protected memory architecture which is perfect for Unix even though it still has 16-bit segment addresses"? Remember how XMS required a CPU reset under BIOS control to get out of protected mode?
Remember Itanic? When Intel said "You need this VLIW instruction set because it efficient even though it runs none of your current software"? AMD said "fuck you", then Microsoft also said "fuck you".
Remember the 432? When Intel said "You need this object-oriented memory protection because we think it's better"? (did you know 432 also used VLIW?) Did anybody NOT say "fuck you"?
Remember Pentium 4? When Intel got lucky that some of their guys in Israel said "fuck you" to Pentium 4 and came up with Core.

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>When Intel got lucky that some of their guys in Israel said "fuck you" to Pentium 4 and came up with Core.
Correction what he said was "OY VEY!"

>Remember Itanic?
Eh though Itanic's main problem is that intel went on and decided to drop x86 completely without any sort of transitional period. With AMD64 on the other hand, I'd say the transition is already long enough and it's about time to start dropping x86...

This is the UEFI that Microsoft wants to make an easy API for? (Check the "Firmware as a Service" thread on TDWTF) More like botnets as a service!

Basically ever shit works on 32bit.
Even vstudio 2017 if I remember runs on 32 bit. Office runs natively in 32 bit.
There is really a strong reason to drop 32 bit software? It's really a surface attack reason? So much software, recent software (10 years till now) still is compiled in 32 bit. It would be a bomb to not have 32 bit.
Even w10 is released as 32bit version if you need to run 16bit software - believe me there are some customers of mine that just recently dropped 16bit software and yet you see people still using very old software and in some cases you need to run it bare metal.

>Eh though Itanic's main problem is that intel went on and decided to drop x86 completely without any sort of transitional period.
they honestly should have just omitted it to begin with and concentrated more on making sure OEMs and operating system vendors shipped proper software emulation packages instead.

One more reason NOT TO USE INTEL.

Itanic actually was an operation designed to kill off some of Intel's competitors, namely SGI with MIPS and HP with PARISC. In fact, the death of both architectures were executed by ONE guy; he lead the decision to make SGI delve into Itanic, killing it once and for all and did the same to kill off PA RISC.

32bit software is old it can be emulated without problem.

Thanks. It's still perfectly capable shitpost machine and could play 98% VN and even some emulator like PS2.
Just bought a new 2GB RAM and too lazy to upgrade to 64bit.
Isn't that encouraged on Jow Forums? Muh thinkpads, CRT monitor, etc.

I guess if you put it that way, Itanic was a complete success!

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That's the most stupid thing I've heard today. BIOS support has nothing to do with running 32-bit programs on a 64-bit OS, only with running 32-bit operating systems, which is hardly relevant to do on modern hardware for anyone.

You already can't. 16-bit compatibility mode is already disabled when the OS is running in long mode, and has been for over a decade. You emulate them.

That's a Wincuck problem, though, the specs don't require it.

Fake problem. VMs will still work and 32-bit hardware from elsewhere will still exist.

What large customer base used 32bit desktop OS? That's the real question.

>x86 isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Name the software business care about. We'll wait.

They in fact do. AMD removed 16-bit mode when the CPU is running in long mode as part of the AMD64 spec.

>being this ignorant about the business world
seriously, its like you never had a job. there's businesses out there that literally run on some obscure, custom made DOS/Win3.1 solution that they will not update.

> tech radar
> death of 32bit software
imagine how many fucks the world has to give about either things?
> the answer is: ZERO FUCKS.

> "That goes for other 32-bit software, too – at least when it comes to running natively"

yeah, i'm sure someone will just write a system to emulate whatever is removed just perfectly.

this thread was brought to by:
a SAD AMD SHILL.

Here you are wrong.
Linux distros have special instructions on how to install 64-bit Linux booting using 32-bit GRUB on 32-bit UEFI on a 64-bit CPU?
This is just because there exist such bizarre hardware combos as having 32-bit firmware for a 64-bit CPU.

Sure, but you still need to use a special 32bit grub on such a machine.

> WineVDM
> 8 months ago 1st commit
Holy shit and thank you, finally. Was looking for that four years ago.

> here exist such bizarre hardware combos as having 32-bit firmware for a 64-bit CPU
Like Macbook Air?

You've got just about every business relying on some sort of 32 bit software (getting a business to update OSes is like pulling teeth, tell them half their shit will stop working, see how it goes) but then there's also gamers. 32 bit is still used for a ton of games and I think even Steam itself.

> 32 bit is still used for a ton of games and I think even Steam itself.
Nobody is going to touch WOW64, though.

Only losing MEMTEST bothers me, surprised how there isnt a UEFI way to test RAM yet.

>Like what? Things that you can't even plug into modern motherboards because they don't have the interface for them anymore anyway?
what is LPC
those weird industrial boards that still have physical ISA slots are bridged through the same LPC controller used for all the remaining ISA-only components in northbridge
>PS/2
>NS16550A UART (RS-232 serial)
>EFI ROM field programmer
>TPM

the earliest computers that can run windows 10 for instance are *from* 2005
>Pentium 4 G1 step: XD, long mode, SSE2/3, new long mode instructions (load/store flags to AH, octaword CAS)
>Pentium D: same as above but, 32-bit mode only, lacks the long mode extensions required for most 64-bit OS

superio chippy

visual studio itself is still 32-bit only
the Microsoft C/C++ compiler now has a 64-bit frontend (libc1, libc1xx)

You forgot this paragraph
>During my orientation (2nd quarter 2013) my orientation meeting was about how the CEO is wrong on his plans.
I assume he's talking about JUSTnich

basically

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what about increased register size

Good bye to all WoW pirate realms running anything before cata then.

HP was the primary contributor to and ultimate beneficiary of the Itanium project, killing SGI that would have killed itself anyway was just an unexpected bonus, that incompetence is all on them and likely would have been repeated with or without Itanium. Desktop MIPS was hot garbage.

>It's really a surface attack reason?
Fuck yea it is, I want to get rid of 32 bit myself, no one has moved forward from it and devs have a huge level of incompetence, some people still program shit to only with with IE for fucks sake.

>Intel has announced that it will cease legacy BIOS support for PCs as the firm looks to fully transition to the more secure UEFI by 2020 – which is effectively the death knell for 32-bit software.
Non sequitur. Unless they explicitly state they drop 32 bit this alone means nothing, even if it were impossible to boot 32 bit operating systems, which it isn't, 32 bit software still runs on 64 bit operating systems.

shut up faggot

This. Any bootloader, in fact. I was thinking GRUB when I read this, could chainload BOOTMGR (or fucking IO.SYS), and off you go.

My Skylake still has it, as does my mate's Ryzen 1600. As per , off by default though.

Because you're not. If you're too silly to arrange your address space properly (or you have some hardware that won't let you), that's your problem.

WTF? There's a perfectly functional memory tester built into Windows AMD64, which is an EFI app. Whether it will launch from anything other than BOOTMGR though... IIRC MS rigged their EFI executables in a way that they don't start from the EFI shell.