DAC and amps are total waste of money

i really wish consumer stuff would support ip audio so i can just treat them as a networked speaker output option

>What sound card you have on your motherboard or a dedicated card does not matter, not even a little
Are you retarded or have you only used headphones with 3.5mm jacks?

That's entirely circumstantial.

You may or may not be aware of this but ALL the receivers have a phone jack. I have never seen one which doesn't, ever.

Tell me more about how the sound card in my computer matters when my headphones are connected to my receivers phone jack and my receiver is connected to my computer using HDMI. You must share with us how whatever motherboard audio or sound card you have influences the sound quality I get, we must have this information.

Look at the picture in the OP, do you see a 6.35mm line-in jack? No, you don't, all of them are 3.5mm; if I wanted to hook up expensive speakers or a pair of expensive headphones that require a 6.35mm jack I couldn't do so, I would need a more dedicated solution for something like that, an actual DAC and AMP meant for audio professionals, not some home-consumer bullshit. Further, why the fuck would I spend $600 on an A/V receiver when all I need to do is spend $400 less on a dedicated card that's going to provide me exactly the same experience without forcing me to be restricted to the implementations present in the A/V receiver for mixing functionality?

>do you see a 6.35mm line-in jack
it's on the front you fucking idiot

Possible but unlikely, I have an Onkyo receiver that is lacking a 6.35mm jack; also you conveniently ignored everything else in my post.

Case and point: You are fucking retarded for spending upwards of $500 on a receiver that accomplishes the same functionality of a $200 dedicated DAC.

>Possible but unlikely
>$200 dedicated DAC
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

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And what is that good for? There are many different software implementations available on your computer that can do room space correction for you, there is zero reason to spend so much money on a piece of hardware that is only useful if you have thirty different output devices to hook up to it.

>I have an Onkyo receiver that is lacking a 6.35mm jack
I was not aware that there's receivers without headphone jacks. This is totally new to me. You must share with us what model you have which lacks this essential feature, we must know. Is this a wanna-be Apple thing, no-headphone jack because it's trendy due to phones not having one?

As for "same functionality"; that's hardly the case. I can't connect five speakers to a DAC/AMP, can I? That's the main point of a surround receiver, the fact that it (usually) has a headphone jack which is as good as or superior to DAC/AMP solutions is just a bonus.

Don't be so quick to judge. If she has a receiver without a headphone jack then she doesn't or it's under a cover and she just can't see it. Regardless, she knows what brand/model receiver she has better than us.

I've never seen one without a headphone jack but that doesn't mean it's impossible.

Pioneer is £329 and the Onkyo is £469

Both made by Onkyo

Is it worth £140 for another HDMI output and the Onkyo branding?

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I'll have to dig it out of the basement when I get home, I've noticed a decent amount of these threads on the board recently, so I'm sure you'll see me again.

You can connect more than five speakers to a DAC/AMP, most motherboards have support for 7.1 with their integrated DACS (hell you could get dedicated cards back in the early 00's with 5.1 support, this is nothing new), there are many dedicated USB solutions available that also offer support for 7.1 as well.

Also, your receiver is going to be shit at handling audio processing, unlike professional DACs which are built for the task and can handle realtime processing without DSP overload, but that's likely not a problem for you as you are a general consumer, not a professional.

In this case you would have to look at build quality, especially what kind of internal components are used in both of the receivers (where they source their capacitors etc) to make a good judgement call.

>receiver is going to be shit at handling audio processing
you should read up on what receivers are for

No. It's been a while since Onkyo bought Pioneer and what was Pioneer production's closed down long ago. It's the exact same stuff in a slightly different wrapping or the same wrapping with a different logo.

My guess is that if you open them up you'll find the exact same capacitors on both.

you could also look into buying used receivers, they are the best value in audio

They're obviously not designed for processing, they're designed for playback, which is why they would be shit at it. Meanwhile you can spend money on a dedicated USB DAC and get the both of best worlds for a fraction of the cost.

You can keep trying to argue with me and ignoring/sidestepping the points I'm making but it's not going to get you anywhere; receivers are incredibly overpriced for the purpose of playing audio from your computer, they have their place in areas where a computer is not located, such as a home theater room (where they can just network to your computer instead of being connected physically) or your car.

I have a laptop, I'm genuinly curious as how this would improve my music playback

Should I get an AV receiver or an AMP?

Good advice,and I'll add to it: Make sure it's got a HDMI input and not so old that it's only got SPDIF if it's a surround receiver you're looking for.

When it comes to HDMI there is the issue of pass-through and upscaling. If you are going to connect it to a computer then there's no reason to connect your monitor to the receiver, that seems to be a TV thing. And if that's the case then it matters not if it can only pass through 720p or 1080p BUT this does matter to someone who just bought a 4k TV which means there's deals to be had on perfectly good 4-5 year old receivers. It's worth looking around, you could find a perfectly fine one on the cheap.

>how this would improve my music playback
well, first of all how big is the room?

Hard to recommend anything without knowing your use-cases in mind. Put simply, you can put one of those things in a backpack or bag and the other will sit where you place it after you bought it for the duration of it's lifetime. You can't exactly bring your surround receiver with you if you're going for a longer train-ride.

Uhh I just listen on my headphones but it's tiny i'd say 12x25ft

The reality is that your integrated solution on your motherboard is going to provide you exactly the same quality playback as more expensive, dedicated solutions. The real reason to buy a receiver or a USB DAC is if you are either dabbling in music production, have expensive headphones or speakers that require a large amp, or you want to remove noise from input signals that is created when the audio passes through the lines on your mobo.

keep using your headphone

>12x25ft
I'm guessing you won't be installing any big speakers and surely no 5.1 surround setup in there so it's hard to make a case for a surround receiver.

That leaves a USB DAC/AMP. If you actually need that would depend on what kind of headphones you're using. In most cases you're probably fine with your laptops on-board audio. But... if they are very high-end and you paid like $1000 for those headphones then it's a different story.

thanks

That's a good idea, I was originally gonna get an amp for my record player, but I might as well get an AV receiver and hook it up to my tv as well.

I have a 4K Hisense tv but I might just get a used 1080p receiver and a chromecast audio since there still isn't really any 4K content to consume.

i really like the onkyo AccuEQ room correction, get one with it

Would it make any difference if I only used 2 channel bookshelf speakers with it?

That really depends on what your setup is. Not everyone has a home theater setup at their desk.

yes it would still make a difference, in some room, huge difference, room correction is also absolutely required if you ever add a sub

ok thanks, if I get a new receiver i'll make sure it has that AccuEQ room correction

I wish I could output fucking HDMI audio without hooking it up as a fake monitor games and windows can randomly get fucking trapped on ...

My monitors are all 1440P and my receiver won't do 1440P.

Makes sense for a home theater or couch setup.
But prohibitively giant for a desktop

microsoft still haven't added support for audio only hdmi out in the year of our lord 2019?

>AV Receivers
(You) mean bluethooz speekers?

Related enough, are there HDMI to Ethernet adapters? All I find when I search is HDMI to 2x 8P8C as an alternative to a long-ass HDMI cable but I'm trying to use HDMI's Ethernet pins for Ethernet

Gay. I just run my shit into a mixing board and then it goes to self powered monitors.

HDMI Ethernet Channel isn't compatible with "normal" Ethernet at a hardware/signalling level so you would need an Ethernet switch with one HEC port and one 100BASE-TX port, which AFAIK doesn't exist because the whole HEC thing never picked up any steam and is basically dead.

AV Receiver is AV bloatware
filled with all kind of medicore crap

>poo in ear

>Metal case
>no ground pin on AC input
Get the hell outta here with this chink shit

It's used for providing a network connection to all HDMI 1.4 connections.

(You) mean bluethooz speekers?

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Stop, just stop. I'm embarrassed for you enough already

>>Ethernet port
Other than Wifi (which it also has), how would you access your network storage?

I did a DIY to do exactly that. I pass an HDMI signal through 2 CAT6 cables on the wall. Works pretty good.

My Yamaha can access DLNA servers.

95% of people don't need any of this shit.

how about an audio interface

>having all in one box, can't upgrade anything
that's zoomer mentality straight up

>But prohibitively giant for a desktop
Works on my machine.

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Did you use any TX-RX components? Did you pass video w/o any major noticeable loss? In my experience the only reason I've seen ethernet used on a receiver like OP's was to be able to do firmware and software updates remotely which I doubt any usual consumer would do.

HDMI needs a video signal to transmit audio at all. Unless there's some solution that feeds the receiver with a blank image without it showing as a separate monitor to the PC.

You're mixing 2 things here.
I did the HDMI DIY just o pass an HDMI to HDMI signal through a long distance inside a wall instead of using a super long HDMI cable. It's got nothing to do with networks.

The network functionality in AV Receivers is mainly used to access things like network storage media libraries, internet radio, etc.

Exactly, through network then.

Sorry, I should have wrote that better. I wasn't thinking you passed video through the ethernet port on the receiver but also I would think that you would have loss of video quality Frankensteining a HDMI connector to a NT cable. What was the distance of your run? Isn't HDMI's max distance like 50'?

Getting an amp was such a nice qol increase for me since I could stick headphones easily whenever I needed them and could have high quality speakers connected at the same time.

DACs are mostly snake oil when it comes to PC but there's some objective stuff that actually changes the quality of the audio. The thing is that if you're having noise coming from inside your case into your speakers or headphones any cheap ass external DAC will do the job well enough when connected to an amp. People buy into 500 freedom bucks costing DAC snakeoil even though they use almost none of the actual features that come with the package, which is what you actually pay for.

AV receivers have terrible build quality though and probably wont last longer than couple of years. The interface in every single one of them is pure garbage too.

Ethernet cables can take HDMI signal much longer than an HDMI cable. But my run is less than 30 meters.

HDMI is a digital signal. There is no loss of quality. Either it works or it doesn't.
That said, if the connection is not good enough, you can get artifacts on screen, but you will immediately notice that something is wrong then.

There are things that help you do this thing, like pic related sold on Ebay.

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Got this thing for $7 from a second hand shop, can't find anything wrong with it, it's just old.

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>Ethernet cables can take HDMI signal much longer than an HDMI cable. But my run is less than 30 meters
I understand that ethernet cable is rated at 100 meters or so for transferring data before needing a repeater but what is boggling my mind is why then are HDMI cables limited to such a shorter distance? It's also boggling me that I never considered the reasons even when I worked in high end AV for 6 years. We would usually just use Crestron HD-TX/RX's or IPTV TX-RX's. I've also never hacked together HDMI and CAT Cable. I'm guessing it has to do something with the wire being twisted in CAT cable and having a solid copper core??

>pre out
because if you're rich enough you can do this

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>>>/ag/

hdmi bandwidth is way more than ethernet

floating ground is needed for noise immunity

You're correct desu senpai
t. Pioneer VSX owner

don't you need the extra component in? :^)
also you can get cheaper than that.

My old Kenwood AVR got a burnt cap on the digital input board.
Went to the thrift store and picked up a similar Yamaha AVR with 100w per channel from the same era. $25 bucks and only needed some Deoxit.
Buying any AVR past 2005 that isnt the top shelf model is a waste of time.
Buggy, cheap components and light weight. BAD. Many such cases.

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> all your shit is on the floor
>desktop setup
Also,
why would you have giant floorstanders so close to you and basically pushed diagonally into a corner? Whatever sounds good to you I guess

this
some professional audio gear support layer 3 audio over IP and it's neat
meanwhile for consumer we have at best DLNA or proprietary garbage for bluetooth speakers

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It doesn't do that. Anyway, delays and PEQ are textbook tools, not very interesting.
I meant something that controls the spatial distribution of the low-frequency response in the room. Harman's SFM is one, but that is locked into their high-end ecosystem (Revel, JBL Synthesis, Mark Levinson).

>having a giant box laying on the floor
At least put it on a shelf you barbarian

>Pioneer production's closed down
wait, is Pioneer dead?

there is nothing wrong with that

I am poor, what exactly I am looking at?

a picture where the AV receiver is just a DAC and you use external power amps.
It's completely useless if you don't need 600W for each speaker

>floating ground
....
>floating dick in your face
Any electrical appliance that has conductive casing needs to be grounded. That's the code.

>Any electrical appliance that has conductive casing needs to be grounded. That's the code.
Nah
My 2017 TV has a metal case. no ground
All my AV receivers have metal cases, no ground
As long as the shit is double insulated you don't need a ground for metal cased stuff

For a knuckle dragger like you

If it's double insulated than outer layer should be grounded. If it's properly insulated than it won't affect audio.
Your chink shit is not up to code

I use the preouts on my aventage, because it was by far the most reasonable way to DAC 5.1 via hdmi. Most audiophile brand stuff is ungodly expensive or outdated, but i still wanted dedicated amps, not gutless receiver power or god forbid integrated amp gaymin speakers

You are incorrect. Double insulated devices do not need a second grounding prong.

>HDMI spec changes
>Your receiver that cost hundreds or thousands of dollars is a brick in a few years even though the sound functions perfectly

slave race

HDMI spec doesn't change THAT often and your not left a brick as it's still perfectly usable
People who did just buy a receiver with HDMI 2.0 did somewhat get shafted with 2.1 being so close but unless you have a TV with either native 120hz or an 8k display it's not going to matter

>HDMI spec doesn't change THAT often
Not going to get vague with you on matters of degree. But it's a huge fuck you and planned obsolescence when they change HDCP

>and your not left a brick as it's still perfectly usable
It's not because ARC is low bandwidth dog shit so you're stuck with old compressed codecs. If you can get it to work, because HDMI handshaking is also dog shit. You paid for the ability to decode modern codecs. You paid for the video passthrough of the receiver. And eventually it's going to go back to pre HDMI fidelity when either your TV or video source exceeds your receiver's standard. You might has well have ebay'd something ancient and used your TV's optical output.

Don't get jewed into buying an A/V receiver. Consumers need to force manufacturers to make eARC audio-only receivers so we can be sane again. A TV is a much better input selector, and won't bottleneck technology because there's nothing after it in the chain. A TV could passthrough some wizbang future object oriented codec without knowing it exists or how to decode it.

A/V geeks are the Young Earth Creationists of nerds.

>unbalanced outputs
never gonna make it

Audioautism is just retarded snake oil or most part. People can't actually make out the differences between super expensive equipment and "regular". It's all mental illness placebo and when I see people seriously discuss this shit I just cringe. The only thing you should pay for in audio equipment are the features and not some special zimbabwese transistors that make sound more authentic.

And this right here is why you and everyone that agrees with you have absolutely NO idea what good sq is. Sucks to suck I guess.

I have to add onto my original comment. Because people like you are the reason trash products are so popular, you have no clue what a real amp+preamp+active crossover with some real speakers can do. It's literally a whole other experience, completely night and day, and the fact you even mention this bullshit clearly means you've never heard anything worth a shit. There are so many variables why those units are fucking trash, signal to noise is trash, harmonic distortion is high, signal interference is high as fuck, they never handle anything under 30hz well, they cant drive big drivers properly, nothing under 4 ohms will be doable, they are built to do too many things hence why their overall quality is always bullshit on their specs. I could go on and on with a ton more but I've finished.
Just know until you venture into bigger badder shit, you're an ignorant retard.