What's the problem with this language again? I suck as a coder I admit, which is why this language is awesome...

This is sad because scala >>>>>>>>> python

i hate using begin and end instead of { }

Nothing, code monkeys are mad that people with real skill are using it as a tool for getting shit done instead of sperging.

what are you smoking? i take L3 salary while being 9300km away from SV

Scala feels OOP first with strong functional, while Python feels like functional first with OOP. But these languages go to shit when those writing code don’t know how and when to use both paradigms. Most people should learn functional and OOP separately first, so the multi paradigm is actually useful.

You start missing compile time type checks after a while.

5-100 times worse performance than any proper language like C, C++, C#, Java.

t. never used a functional language

The only thing I don't like about it is whitespace mattering.

The same problem I have with lua.
A text file that I made by metaphorically banging my head on the keyboard shouldn't be accepted by the compiler/interpreter.
I'd rather have something like Ocaml or some other ML where the compiler bitches when I make stupid errors.
Dynamic typing and/or weak typing are mistakes

I like that aspect especially when reading other people's code. It makes it easy to read and readability is the main reason Python was created

>I can do it quickly
This is the key. Developer time is way, way more costly than buying a little extra hardware. If you can develop things quickly while writing decent code that's documented, you'll have a nice career.

It doesn't use {}

I can't imagine this is true in the long run. In the immediate term, sure. But consider if this code does something important and/or winds up being legacy code... They're going to have to employ people over time to maintain it.

Quick, good and well documented seldom run together in the digital world. If it's unimportant shit, sure why not? But for code that is going to be used for an indeterminate amount of time? The hardware costs will end up being negligible.

>What's the problem with this language again?
problem perl, perl is more awesome quickly and great

>Its a tool if you use it well it can do great things. Who cares
Python is incredibly useful for automating tasks, CV, and many other areas. I completely agree that its usefulness is dependent on how the programmer uses it.

Agreed.

Type hinting is built into the core language now. There are also modules that can enforce stricter type checking. You might want to look into those.

True, but only an issue in CPU-bound applications, which, these days, are getting rarer and rarer.

Agreed.

Python is much more readable and therefore easily maintainable than many other languages because of the "one proper way to do something" philosophy. The whitespace rules and well-known standards like docstrings and PEP8 add to this.

---
I'm a little surprised nobody has mentioned the GIL yet. It blocks any performance gains from multithreading. There are other implementations of Python that don't enforce a GIL though.

>data science
>machine learning
>low pay and skill
wew lad

People don't use Python for performance-centric applications...

>software company spends less money on software
>user has to spend more money on hardware
>Python is 200x less efficient than Java and C++
You know that if everything was replaced with Python you'd need over 50GHz CPUs with 32+ cores just for basic tasks?

>there are browsers, torrent clients, file managers, desktop environments, etc. written in Python
Yes, they do. And it's a terrible decision.

It's too slow

Writing a simple script for yourself? Sure, use whatever you want. If you save 3 hours by using python then you'd have to run it so often that those 3 hours won't be a negative time loss for a long while.

Writing a script other people will use? Well now you have a problem, because your shitty script makes everything chug like fuck, and if 1000 people use your script then the negative impact of your script will quickly become a net time loss for every single user that uses your script, and those 3 hours have wasted countless hours of other human's life thanks to your inability to use a faster language.

Now imagine if it becomes popular and 100,000 people are using it, now you're literally wasting everyone's time because you don't know anything better. Literally a negative impact.

And even other high level languages like JS can be 10 times faster doing the exact same things, and JS isn't even that fast. There are plenty of other languages with equally simple syntax that aren't as slow.

I rate python 2/10

>*uses Numba*
heh, nothing personnel kid.

Attached: 559.png (1032x724, 678K)

which?

Yeah, you can use python syntax in other languages or things that compile it to C, but a majority of program don't, you could just use nim for example.

>browsers
Firefox, PaleMoon, Brave
>torrent clients
Transmission, uTorrent
>file managers
Nautilus, Dolphin
>desktop environments
KDE and Unity

-uses shitty OS package-manger, dependencies not there
-accidentally forget to use --user when pip installing, break system
-still have to manually tweak environment to use virtualenv correctly or use tools like pipenv.
-setup.py bullshit for packaging and distribution.
-dependencies are recorded in something that is as stupid as setup.py and something as completely useless as requirements.txt

slow, shitty OO, shitty FP, shitty built-in functions, inconsistent syntax overall, package management is a joke

just use Dart

It's useful for small scripts and for training machine learning models, but beyond that it's a mess of dependency conflicts. It's installed by default on most systems so everybody has whatever outdated version came with their OS that they can't upgrade because it's baked into the system. Sure you can install Anaconda to get some sort of standardization and isolation from your base python, but that's still just another version you have to deal with.

t. attempted Openstack admin

>browser
Falkon was originally made in Python, but they switched to C++.
>torrent client
Deluge
>file manager
ranger
>desktop environment
GNOME

Let's not forget games (adding to the "performance-centric shit is written in python" argument)
>Civ 4
>battlefield 2
>EVE Online

This. Python allows you to actually get shit done in a short time, thus ruining the snowflake illusion that programming is for big brains only.

>machine learning
>rocket science
>nasa
>microsoft
>apple
>google's AI
>virtually every big name tech company
Keep telling yourself that stupid mantra.

>I'm a little surprised nobody has mentioned the GIL yet. It blocks any performance gains from multithreading. There are other implementations of Python that don't enforce a GIL though.
There are areas where using multiple threads in Python, even with the GIL, can still give a good performance increase: I/O bound applications, such as downloading scripts. The time it takes for the interpreter to perform a context switch is much shorter than the packet interarrival time, so opening more connections can greatly speed up downloads.

>Python is slow
>100,000 people can't use it
Instagram, Pinterest and many other sites run on Python (Django). I guess these fucking huge top 10 websites know less than you do.

How'd you get so smart? Take your Dunning-Kruger ass somewhere else

If you're smart enough to get a job at any of those companies you should be smart enough to realise there's a time and a place for python, and just because they use it doesn't mean they would ever use it as a part of any performance critical part of any application.

>some dude wrote a super basic django website at netflix for some super basic in-house thing that only 1 person at a time will use
>wow, python is used by netflix?! now I can justify using it everywhere, all the time!

>I use whatever everyone else uses so it must be good
20 years ago people said the same about VB

>people wonder why pajeets are taking over the industry and they cant get hired with ther dummy languages

no wonder palemoon keeps crashing everytime I watch a youtube video

Google's Deepmind uses python. Their tensorflow machine learning framework is written in python. Its the hottest thing on the planet right now.

NASA uses mission critical Python, so does Spacex to automate their launch tests.

You need to get your head out of the gutter. Python is big.

Python may very well be obsolete in 20 years, but right now it's fucking great and that's why so many big companies are using it.

I'm advocating for Python because it's very useful. I'm curious as to why you're so against it? I'm guessing it's either threatening your job or it's threatening your ego. Stop being a dork

Attached: pfft.jpg (323x323, 72K)

You referring to Python, Ruby?
For quick little scripts on my raspberry pi or personal computer its great, or maybe I am too lazy to dig into C++ for a huge project and want it simple, Python usually does it well

>I'm advocating for Python because it's very useful. I'm curious as to why you're so against it? I'm guessing it's either threatening your job or it's threatening your ego. Stop being a dork
its a shit language,go ahead with your gay ass superiority memes, I dont waste my time with deluded brainlets

>again
deja vu didn't we have this thread in the past 12 hours?

the arguments in this thread regarding performance are moot considering that cython is a thing. If you write something that is CPU-bound and want to improve the performance, you use cython to compile it in C.

Actually, people use pytorch instead of tf because tf is dogcrap. Not only is it both slow to train and to run, it's also extremely fragile and unflexible. Its only advantage is being able to leverage ridiculous gpu farms easily, but that's not viable for even the big 5 in practice (for example they might work on a single project that can leverage that every few years and then only as a proof of concept for shilling purposes, while everything else uses 2-4 gpus max).
It's also written in C/C++ and can't be extended without writing modules in C++, so you're full of shit.
Pretty sure it's also handled by google brain and not deepmind but haven't checked.

Also even then it's still the wrong tool and the use of python due to the ridiculous traction it has (snowball effect) has had massive impacts on even those companies because problems like losing hours or days of work due to a typo happen too much in python even at these companies (been there seen that laughed a lot).

go back to write calculators in Haskell, retard

B I G D A T A

there's the big bucks lads, and the python ecosystem is growing

Attached: résistance14.jpg (500x333, 44K)

>you could just use nim for example.
>No package nim available.
No i can't. I can't just use any meme language i like.

The speed of python was never an issue for anything i did. I only do small scripts and APIs to help automate things. Most of the time they wait for external resources anyway.

Pro:
- It's in the RHEL repos including the most used packages
- There are a lot of people who know it
- You can implement things fast

Con:
- Slower than other languages

What language should i use instead?

Python IS slow though, just because people are using it doesn't change anything at all. Literally all it means is that they have to use workarounds like they are by using cpython instead of actually just using normal python. Which is a good choice, but it is NOT python, and that is not the problem. The problem is raw, normal ass python used everywhere else.

The entire point of django is to shit out MVPs and then rewrite them later, if you make money then you can finally afford real developers for a real solution. It does not make python good at all. This is the same for ruby and rails, lots of companies do this where they write in a slow/easy language and later rewrite it in a real solution when they can afford real developers.

When speed doesn't matter it's fine, but they will pay the price literally. Look at any blog posts about sites moving from things like rails to elixir or django to go or whatever, you'll see they save millions on servers. If your company is so huge that millions doesn't matter and you can "afford" to waste money on servers, do whatever the fuck. Doesn't make it a good choice for the other non-unicorn startups that aren't instagram though.

Using cython/numba/nim/whatever other python syntax based solution is fine, the problem for me is that when I install a program on my machine it uses python and is slow as fuck, and there are no other options to do the same thing because everyone writes everything in fucking python.

tl;dr Don't confuse "python" with other solutions that use the word python in their name, and use that as a justification for using python everywhere.

>Pro:
>- It's in the RHEL repos including the most used packages
the v2 vs v3 is a permanent problem meaning Python programmers have to support both versions because v3 software is often buggy or non-existent

this thread is just a shill thread, its actually entertaining to see all the stockholm syndrome justifications that shills have for using Python

Why do you need packages to write small scripts? This is literally the best time to not use python.
You could probably just use bash for most small scripts. I don't get it.

Go is a very good choice though, you probably wouldn't even need any external packages to download.

I do python3 only and migrated all old scripts to 3. It's only used internally so i can control the environment.

Requests and database connector packages mostly. Part of my job is to get information out of proprietary system A and B and put it into proprietary system C. I do bash scripts too but as soon as external systems or a lot of data wrangling comes into play i switch to python.

>user said, huffing memes like the undergrad retard he is

yeah buddy you sure did write a program in 3 hours
bad """"""""coder"""""""""" btw

this is incorrect

Attached: 1534052181422.png (422x309, 99K)

It's slow and hard to debug. Type errors can be annoying to deal with.

lol, nope.

Attached: fire.png (326x780, 86K)

It's even slow compared to javascript. Nodejs servers are much faster than servers built in python.

people here are fking idiots
python is the only thing to use

its fast enough
when has any fking 'windows' programmer (for example, ever programmed for performance)
all is brute forced

fucking moron
for anything transactional it is fast as
as is always said, for computation intensive tasks, integrate it with C. but the design, of everything can be python. uninformed idiots posting here constantly. f*ck off back to r*ddit, idiot

hard to debug? what the fuck is wrong with pdb
fully featured

I'm a sysadmin for a few SaaS solutions and Python is a godsend. I wrote a few packages in a week to automate most of my job so I can spend more time shit posting. The part that sucks is having to commute to work every day to run a script, then fuck around for the remaining 7.5 hours :^)

>can't even string together a sentence that makes sense
>uses insults for 30% of the words typed
>implies the entire project is numpy or something

54 IQ "pythonista" spotted

I know this is bait but I'll bite:

People who think this shit in real life are insufferable faggots who have 0 concept of how much abstraction there already is between them programming in "real" languages bare metal. The amount of abstraction that's achieved by going from logic gates to C is fucking astronomical, and you could probably never achieve writing a C compiler from bare metal in your entire life if it weren't for the work of hundreds of years of mathematicians working all this shit out for you. Comparatively, the jump from C to Python is minuscule in the grand scheme of things. Sure it might abstract away a few data structures and make things nicer to use, but it's nothing compared to carefully organizing bits of sand together in such a way that they perform actual computation.

Computer science and abstraction are tied together at the hip. Losers who can't understand that the continuous abstraction of mathematics is the very essence of computing are the most obnoxious fucking faggots in the world. The losers who can't understand that it's actually harder to think abstractly are the funniest of them all. Sure you can do the equivalent of hand-holding a modern abacus. You're not accomplishing anything by reinventing the wheel for the thousandth time, you're just doing it because someone needs some retarded shit to be fast, but you're not furthering the field of computer-science. You're not developing new fucking algorithms in C, you're implementing something that someone (far smarter than you) has already thought of in a slightly different flavor just so you can get a paycheck.

PhD in ML here. You literally have no idea what you're talking about.
I don't even know from where to start laughing at you, whether your implication that any Google company could ever use a framework developed by Facebook, or that any of the major frameworks are actually any different from one another. Maybe I'll just call you a faggot for replying to
>Deepmind uses python
With
>Actchually people use pytorch

Also
>Hours of work lost due to typos
What are you, 12? That shit only happens in highschool. Don't larp as an ex googler because you are clearly talking out of your ass, and it shows

Attached: eaa60cf431adcbefc44a357ba6af2edda3cc9f51.jpg (580x388, 30K)

>. Literally all it means is that they have to use workarounds like they are by using cpython instead of actually just using normal python.

cpython is "normal python", or reference python if you will. Perhaps you meant using c-extensions for python? Or cython?

And that's a good thing.

ITT: Python defense force attempts to defend their shitty brainlet tier language.