Redpill me on this (((comfy))) language and why does Jow Forums hate it

im kinda proud when i made my own java applet

Valid point, Oracle is a troglodyte company.

Autism.

It's popular with pajeets because it's in high demand. Do you think companies like paying H1B visas and then still having to pay $60k/year to a literal poo in the loo? Of course not. But you faggots won't learn Java for god knows what reason and instead stay neets.

There are so many neat things that you can't do in Java, and it forces you to be so verbose. AFAIR you cannot do callbacks if they change state, interfaces can't have member variables, and the way everything is made to throw exceptions which MUST be caught makes code painful to look at.

redpill me on this (((pajeet))) language and why does Jow Forums rightfully hate it.
Fixed it

isn't it the ultimate business programming language? Isn't a java programmer the equivalent of a wallstreet trader in the world of programming?

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Java is Cobol 2: Eletric Boilerplate

I have used Java quite a bit and I do like it, but the language is all about compromises. It tries to find the sweet spot between simplicity and speed, but in the end it is still definitely more complex than Javascript, python or other simple languages while still being slower than c/c++. If I write something in Java I know it could be done faster in python or another simple language or I could produce a way faster binary with c/c++. It just feels wrong deep down.

1) it's not as comfy as it could be, but it's getting comfier.
2) Jow Forums hates it because Jow Forums is incapable of conceiving larger, more complex systems. Jow Forums thinks it's bloat because it runs on a virtual machine and uses a garbage collector, which is obviously true if all that you're programming is fizzbuzz.

java is the only real enterprise grade, fault tolerant language out there atm, IMO. (kotlin is basically java).

fewer memory exceptions thanks to GC, and no null pointer exceptions thanks to optionals. Fewer logic errors thanks to streams, and really good package management thanks to the maven repo.

it's like a more powerful version of python for non-brainlets.

Why would you want to overload them anyway?

Just a messy code, as pointers are.

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Poo in the Electric Booga-Loo

Java is good to maintain a decent level of proficiency with because of how many job opportunities it opens up.

>java is the only real enterprise grade, fault tolerant language out there atm
What is C#?

>everything's massively coupled and dependent
>extend on my extend on my extend on my extend
>>d-don't ask how/why, just extend and run with it
>literally re-write everything from scratch
>what do you mean you can run code inside a comment? b-baka!
>bro, listen, Pajeet here is an expert...
>also be sure to pay Oracle monies for the next JDK
I could go on
and Java is the first programming language I learned

>What is C#?
a weak mircosoft attempt at entering the enterprise market.

problem is that the majority of the machinery uses linux, while windows mainly remains mostly restricted to the PC domain.

C# frontends often just run with java backends/microservices so I wouldn't really call that enterprise grade.

C# doesn't have Apache so it's irrelevant. It just recently was released from the clutches of Steve Balmer the Faggot. It has almost zero ecosystem outside of Microfuck frameworks. Where's Kafka, Spark, Hadoop, Jenkins, or any other equivalents in C#? There aren't any. The best you can do with C# is build an email server.

Java is slower than python??

>>everything's massively coupled and dependent

what is dependency inversion
what are beans, what are controllers, what are services

>and Java is the first programming language I learned
there's more to java than fizzbuzz. You've been complaining about java being shit when you've been doing it wrong all along, my friend.

it's like you're complaining that the dragon dildo hurts your pooter when you should have started with a small buttplug.

Why do folks hate pointers so much?

I remember taking a Java class in high school. It was such a shit language that made learning programming concepts harder than it had to be. It wasn't until years later when I learned C and Python that I realized just how shit it was and how much of a disservice they did for me.

>it's like you're complaining that the dragon dildo hurts your pooter when you should have started with a small buttplug.
Underrated

*sips* now those were real languages *sips* yup, they don't make em like they used to.

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>capitalist lawyers
>not kikes

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What point are you trying to make, Mr. Low T passive aggressive user?

That Java 10 years ago isn't Java today. What JDK version were you even using? Also, you don't really know Java if you learned it in a class in high school. You know some VERY basic syntax, programming concepts, and maybe a small section of the standard library (probably I/O shit).

There's a reason why all the big companies use Java in their software. Pretty much all of Netflix's OSS is Java for example. Just look at the Apache projects, all written in Java. You're not building a scalable load balancer in C.

Fair enough. That's actually a good argument and you're probably right. I will revisit it soon

Just revisit the projects. I hated Java too because Jow Forums and /v/ told me to. Now I have a new job and I get to discover new and exciting Java projects everyday. I'm constantly blown away with some of the stuff people write in Java. Eventually, you get really good and it grows on you. There's a reason why Java is popular. Static typing is amazing, the linting in the IDEs is great, the build tools are amazing and mature (it is so effortless to import a new lib into your maven project), and you consistently get safe and scalable code that just werks.

Compare this with Scala, which, while is objectively better than Java in a lot of ways but breaks all the time because dependency issues and other buggy horseshit. No matter how good the language is, if you spend half your time solving dependency issues then it isn't worth it.

They'd rather have something do all the thinking for them. Same with people who refuse to understand ASM's use in C.

While you play with the pointers the real programmers have done matrix libraries etc etc.

What are the most in demand Java libraries and frameworks? Aside from Spring.

>matrix libraries inexplicably don't use pointers
??

does a farmer concern himself with the individual hydrogen atoms in his grain?

spring boot

are you comparing a computer programmer knowing about computer memory with a farmer knowing about atomic physics?
because that's food analogy levels of stupid

Kafka, Hadoop, Hibernate (dogshit), RxJava, and pretty much every Apache framework.

Do you know anything about computer memory if you may print the memory address of your int x=5?

Try it again, in english

>not just writing 30 generic methods with the operator name

sometimes I feel like this place has no concept of scripting or writing large, complex, scalable systems with 0.50% tolerance for any kind of failures.
Sure, writing java may be a pain in the ass sometimes, but I still need it to be hire-able in the market. And I do get to play with Python and etc on a daily basis still.
I still pick Java over the alternatives, I really don't like C# or .net, that ecosystem is filled with the worst of the worst.

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Sorry my name is Pajeet and I'm from India.

So the question is that even if you know the memory address of your variable, do you really know about how computer memory works? And aren't pointers just unsafe code?

>interfaces can't have member variables
what is abstract class

Can you elaborate on your hate for C#? Genuinely curious.

So far, from the admittedly small differences between them (sans the limitations of .NET core), I hugely prefer C#.

Depends on your usecase. All of my scripts run fabulously on Python, but for full client apps you should stick with Java for compatibility between devices running it

>So the question is that even if you know the memory address of your variable, do you really know about how computer memory works
No, there's obviously a lot more to it that being able to print an address. Being able to control where data is stored, or how it is allocated/deallocated for example
>aren't pointers just unsafe code?
What do you mean by unsafe?

i just hate anything that isn't c/c++

But Java virtual machine does all that for you. No need to use expicite pointers anymore.

he said the opposite you nigger

There are certain runtime costs associated with the use of a garbage collector. It is not really an option for all situations.

Does the GC still slows programs down massively every once in a while?
I think that, at least in some cases, a more gradual GC that spread the performance costs better would feel more responsive.
But I dunno, I don't program or use big java programs for a long time now, so maybe now it's better?

It's still dogshit slow

Car car = new Car();

I used to manage projects for a company that worked in the .net ecosystem exclusively. I know it is unfair to bash an entire language over one bad company, but I can assure you, 100% of the projects they wrote were an absolute mess. Really, really shit. The C# programmers were absolute retards, the owner was an arrogant fuck whose competencies went just as far as Microsoft sphere of influence. He couldn't grasp, work, or use anything that didn't run on windows, and during meetings or off work I had to listen to his delusions in tech, speaking like if it doesn't run on Azure or if it isn't build on C#, it sucks. Me, being a open source guy myself, rolled my eyes as hard as I could, but at least I keep an open mind and I don't blind myself in arrogance or put myself on a bubble.
Overtime I've managed to improve the projects, but over the 10 years I worked there, it was unusual not to deal with a C# programmer that made me want to bash a keyboard in his head until he was dead.
Design patters, software engineering, data structures, all things that I valued A LOT were foreign concepts to those people.
Eventually I burned out and quit and went on my way. I never came across such a monumental, closed minded faggot like my ex boss in Java. Sure, a shitload pajeets, but everybody is chill.
I'm not saying that C# does not have it's advantages, but I've developed such a distaste for it, I just avoid it. I picked java and took my AWS certification and have been working with distributed systems and big data for the last couple of years, and it's been great, the paycheck is also nice.

Jow Forums hates things that work.

my thing with java is that it's just so fucking ugly and verbose

i was bashing C# earlier too for its ecosystem earlier ITT, but to be absolutely fair it sounds like you just picked a shit company that ruined it for you.

could have happened just as well the other way round.

Not him, but inneficiency is bad now?
That's why Android software is shit and pajeets are standard...

that's not how GC works.

on the JVM you have two memories: stack and heap.

stack stores primitives, like int, etc, and pointers.

the heap stores the objects. if the last pointer to an object gets deleted from the stack, the heap space to that object is deallocated.

the GC doesn't scrub the heap, it indexes the stack. and since the stack is usually quite small (compared to the heap) it's quite fast. it's a mini database that counts references.

if you have a significant slowdown in your code, it's most likely not the GC, it's shitty programming.

lmao welcome to shitty companies run by shitheads. C# is one of the absolute comfiest languages for writing huge things with beautiful architecture (better than Java by a solid measure, mostly due to the better functional aspects). All the problems you had came from pure incompetence. I'm sure the hiring process was nearly designed for capturing retarded code monkeys who """know""" C#.

Java is the comfiest but it is also the most verbose and if people write shitty code then be prepared to want to commit suduko.

Starting this February, Oracle is going to require a commercial license for "Business, commercial, or production" use of the Java runtime. Which means we've dropped Java completely at work outside of Linux servers running IcedTea. At this point I can't tell if Oracle is trying to kill Java or what, because nobody is going to keep using it if you need a license, except for businesses that are critically reliant on Java. And they'll probably start making migration plans.

>to the better functional aspects
elaborate

we have optionals too, you know?

It's p good for embedded systems

paid products are usually better products

I tell my clients that you can pay for the premium service or get a FOSS version from github and pay 5x that to customize and maintain it for you.

Have you ever thought that some of them are actually competent programmers? Some of them actually get paid regular ~100k salaries

What is OpenJDK? adoptopenjdk.net/

There is zero chance I'm deploying OpenJDK binaries from a Github project with nobody's name attached to it.

We generally use FOSS whenever possible because we have in-house developers. Java doesn't really bring us $100,000 per year in value so the cost of licensing it for all our machines is not worth it.

>not using the Vehicle interface when declaring

jeez

public Car car(Car car) {
car = new Car(car);
car.car = new Car(car);
}
car.car = car

C# provides real expression trees, closures, pattern matching, and linq. C# also has "real" (reified) generics, while Java only has type erased (compiler enforced) generics. It might seem like a subtle difference, but the limitations of type erased generics can be really annoying.

Java has been far behind C# on several fronts for a long time. It seems like Oracle just doesn't really give a fuck about making the Java language better, and has only begrudgingly bolted some stuff on (like streams).
This article does a pretty comprehensive comparison between the two languages.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_C_Sharp_and_Java

I see this kind of post all the time and it's C# babies way to cope with their unpopular try-to-be-Java language. You always post a bunch of arbitrary features.

It's an incredibly inflexible, error-prone and unreadable language, yet it's used all over the place because the people making decisions about that stuff aren't the people actually writing the software.

>Major limitations of Java
>Arbitrary features
These are not small potatoes features. Read the article.
The jvm is very nice, fantastic even, but the Java language is pretty much a disaster. If you like the platform, consider moving to Kotlin, which compares far more favorably to C#. That, or Scala, which compares pretty well with F#. But don't stick your head in the sand and pretend Java is superior to C#. It flat out isn't.

wrong, now it's
var car = new Car();

He means that he could write the code faster in Python because it is simpler

>he never heard of openjdk
>he doesn't know r&d happens at openjdk
>he doesnt know the devs are Red Hat,ibm,apple etc
>binaries from a Github project with nobody's name attached to it.
>being this retarded
How about no bloat your language needlessly, c++ is a prime example of a shitshow.
>abstraction is bad
you have to go back
Knowing doesn't require actively using it, just because I learned assembly and low level stuff doesn't mean I'm autistic enough to write everything in asm. If there is a more abstracted alternative, even with overhead, most of the time is more than worth it.
>really an option for all situations.
Right back at you, it is an option for most situations, also not an argument is the current threads context.
And yet java still runs in your sim/credit card.
>everything's massively coupled and dependent
Thee 'java way' is all about decoupling and SOLID.
>extend on my extend on my extend on my extend
You can only have one extend, are you sure you know what you're talking about ?
>Java is the first programming language I learned
that explain it
Why the hell are you even posting then

based and red pilled.

Lots of people never really programmed Java except for in school where they only teach basics. Most universities are still stuck at Java

Jow Forums just hates it because they think C is the best language despite never having professional experience. They look at benchmarks of C and use that as gospel without any practical knowledge of the pain and suffering of making large C projects with a team. I will admit that C is ideal for projects where performance is critical. But Java /just werks/ when you're doing something big with a large team.

forget all these things and ascend, use Haskell

Jow Forums neckbeards just hate everything that /chadprogrammers/ would use, like

java, C# MATLAB BASIC
etc.

>it's a disaster
>it's the most popular and employable language

There isn't any argument for java being more complex than javascript.
In java everything is completely intuitive and straightforward, by the time you've realized strings behave like reference types even though they look like value types which should happen on your third day at most, everything else is entirely predictable.
JS has so many gotchas people write entire books about them, and I bet most JS developers haven't fully wrapped their mind about the ES2017 stuff yet.

Matlab is utter shit. A fucking hack of a language. An semi aborted abomination

jdk.java.net/11/
This one good enough for you, princess?

>It's popular so it's good!
>j-just ignore JavaScript being popular...
Explain why JetBrains/IntelliJ decided to make their own jvm language then. Kotlin is a direct response to Oracle's poor handling of the Java language. If you actually read that comparison article rather than making a bunch of idiotic non-arguments, then you'd see just how bad their handling has been.

I'd like to see one do systems of differential equations with c++ :D

I don't hate Java, but I hate Java developers.
I have to deal with Java legacy code, and it's 20 different executable jar files that do nothing but run SQL queries and write the results to a CSV (because fuck making reusable software that can run any given query), and a few more complex reports that have bugs that can result in calculations being off by several hundred thousand dollars, and I have to search through several layers of the most retarded package structure to find it.
I swear half of the classes and packages I find are defined just so those dumb assholes could look busy as they write 200 lines for something that can be done in 20. Even when I'm dealing with projects by the "good" programmer I have to read method names that are a full fucking sentence because he took self documenting code too seriously, which does nothing but act as the glue for so many Maven dependencies that it makes users of the is-odd npm package look like geniuses. And God forbid you actually read the Git history, since every project is in the same repository, and trailing whitespace (both spaces and tabs, often mixed in the same line somehow) fucks every file's diff when someone uses an IDE or text editor that trims that whitespace.
Overall, I think that "I'm a Java developer" translates to "I'm too dumb to learn more than one language". I automatically assume they struggled so much to learn Java in college that they refuse to learn anything else.
I'm probably a bit biased by the shit Java code I have to deal with, though. Sorry if this is too much of a blog post.

I fully endorse this post. Java "programmers" seem to be as braindead as JavaScript ones. I blame degree mill schools who start and end with Java without teaching any actual computer science. There are definitely good Java developers, but they're like 1% in a sea of pajeets. Hiring good Java people must be nearly impossible.

lmao and what exactly is oracle? does Larry Ellison sound Anglo-Saxon to you?

I haven't read the article but having used kotlin, it's just full-circle retardation to me

evolution of kotlin, as I surmise it:
1) java
2) types are unnecessary: javascript
3) javascript can get too complex without types : typescript
4) typescript is a neat language, why not have it run on the jvm and be bijective to java: kotlin

I'm not shitting on kotlin, because it's not objectively bad, but from what I can deduce it's mainly a gateway for web babies to transition to the backend.

do you have a link to the article btw? i'd like to skim it.

sounds more like the symptom of shitty management to me. you can (will) have the same shit with any language.

now imagine if you had to debug/rewrite all that in c++ or something. instead of crying here you'd be dangling by a rope somewhere.

What's wrong with JavaScript?

That's not at all what Kotlin is. Kotlin is Java but with the warts stripped off and several big features added, or at least implemented correctly. It's a frustrated Java user's answer to Oracle not giving a fuck.

The article I'm referring to is a comparison between C# and Java, and doesn't involve Kotlin. But Kotlin bridges the gap between C# and Java quite a bit.
Dynamic typing is an antipattern. That would be okay as long as the language at least made some fucking sense, but there's weird shit absolutely galore to the point where there are frameworks stacked on frameworks and linters stacked on linters to deal with the bullshit. The best way to use JavaScript is to actually just throw that shit away and use Typescript instead (which "compiles" to JavaScript, but at least it produces reliable behavior).
If you've been writing software long enough you'll realize that you're going to pay for the burden of typing your shit no matter what. Either in unit tests, or a real type system, or runtime errors. Might as well just take the type system and get the amazing design time analysis tools and refactoring capabilities a good type system offers.

I like TS even though it's just a fancy interpreter, code still compiles to cancer JS.