Why would anyone get a CS degree when a math + CS degree is strictly better?

highlight where you used the scientific method

>computer architecture class
>operating systems class
>not about computers

Observe (in packet traces)
Hypothesise (try to explain)
Experiment (test bed)
Repeat from step 1 until..
Able to make prediction (model)
All experiments match prediction
Prediction matches real-life data

Why would anyone get a degree when you can learn all that shit (and more) for free thanks to the internet?

>Why would anyone get a driver's license when you can learn all that shit (and more) for free thanks to the internet?

That sounds as a workshop for something in second or third year of engineering
Well done!

You need to show something to the cops

95% of comp sci is really application/computer engineering. Shocker, colleges are behind the curve and cant keep up with tech.

Yeah, except it wasn't a workshop and I actually got to publish a paper in a peer-reviewed conference, so yeah, I'm pretty sure it would qualify as science.

>master thesis
>literally a lab in 3rd year CE
pajeet detected

And you need a degree to show recruiters and potential employers.

What the fuck is your point?
At my uni there a single faculty for this called the "Faculty of Maths and Computing". Physics was across the road and was nowhere near as big.
The Engineering and Surveying faculty were on the other side of the campus, but I believe there was more overlap between the Engineers and the Math faculties than the Physics faculty.
If you want the real megabucks get an Engineering + CS degree. Not only will you learn both maths and cs, you'll also get shown how to use it.

See

Not necessarily

Engineering is to science and math as nursing is to medicine

You're fucking delusional and you know it. Stop dodging the issue.

Yea? How many scientist does it take to build a bridge?

Engineering is the implementation of science

Engineers are to scientists as nurses are to doctors

Scientists are to mathematicians as doctors are to surgeons

Stop projecting you seething CS pajeet

>Engineering is the implementation of science
Which makes it "not science", which was user's point.

As Neil Armstrong said: Science is understanding what is. Engineering is about building what can be.

Engineers build the bridge for the same reason that nurses give out the medicine.

The real men are too busy doing important shit

Get the fuck out of here with your false equivalence bullshit you fucking mongoloid.

t. seething CS pajeet

Imagine being this sensitive about his engineering degree on an anonymous Taiwanese fly fishing forum.

oh my god
I knew that CS guys were brainlet but this is too much

comp sci "the degree" is about the theory and practice of computation. Not any of the stuff you mentioned. That would be a different course.

do you think that is hard to get that?
it is engineering, the career that changes the world

Actually he's right.

Really? So if everyone became mathematicians we wouldn't need any other degrees.

Im the one suggesting that 95% of the work labeled as CS is really application/computer engineering. I think its foolish to say all things labeled as a Computer Science are Science. However some parts of it are a Science.

>do you think that is hard to get that?
Yeah, considering that 99% of Jow Forums hasn't even read an academic paper, much less published any.

yes, but he is taking the bait

>engineering the career that changes the world
Willa wonka(scientists) changes the world, his oompa loompas(engineers) do not

>Im the one suggesting that 95% of the work labeled as CS is really application/computer engineering. I think its foolish to say all things labeled as a Computer Science are Science. However some parts of it are a Science.
I agree with this.

Great we agree that college are putting out people unfit for working in the general CS world. Now if college would make that course we would be having this conversation.

Mechanic : Mechanical Engineer
Electrician : Electrical Engineer
Plumber : Chemical Engineer
Physicist : Mathematician
Financier : Economist
Potter : Material Scientist
Farmer : Agricultural Engineer
Computer Scientist : Computer Engineer

I literally did that in my 3rd year of college you fucking idiot

It was one of my lab projects

No, CS degrees look like this.

Attached: typical cs degree.png (574x839, 55K)

>Why would anyone get a CS degree
FTFY
I have years of experience and even getting an interview today is a pain in the ass due to how flooded the field is. Wish I had a real exit option other than "management."

Attached: 1428812411185.jpg (480x640, 24K)

>Great we agree that college are putting out people unfit for working in the general CS world. Now if college would make that course we would be having this conversation.

wouldn't*

See

you can't make a car with math in a book, user

You can't make a combustion engine without someone figuring out how to turn continuous mini-explosions into motion energy.

Who do you think made the math needed to make a car?

and the engineer will take that and make a car, well done!

who cares? it is the engineer who will you use that math to make something useful

Assembling Ikea furniture doesn't make you a carpenter. The engineer didn't invent the car, he merely assembles it.

Watching the mental hoops /sci/ jumps through to hide their inferiority complex shouldn't be so entertaining.

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Internal combustion engine
Inventors
Étienne Lenoir:Engineer
Nikolaus Otto:German engineer

fuck you

Spock (science officer) > Scotty (engineer)

it is a stupid comparison, but, ok
science guy just made a scredriver and doesn't know how to really use it

and how the fuck do you think they got there?
"engineering" is impossible without maths background, nobody needs to be a pure theoretical mathematician to do this shit but you 10000% need to be an applied mathematician to do anything of significance,

You're basing your arguments on works of fiction now. Good job.

>applied mathematician
Thats called a engineer.

Scientist isn't a profession, it is what you are when you use the scientific method.

Inventing the combustion engine is engineering. Understanding the combustion process is science.

A GOOD engineer is an applied mathematician. Most engineers just rote repeat the patterns they learned like a car mechanic.

In 10 years time, CS will be like reading and arithmetic and done in primary school. Future kids will be amazed that people would be stupid enough to major in it and it alone.

>taking this meme "scientist vs engineers" discussion seriously to begin with

Attached: where-do-you-think-we-are.jpg (480x360, 16K)

>Inventing the combustion engine is engineering. Understanding the combustion process is science.
Wow its almost like the engineer takes the understanding of the combustion process and applies it to the real world.

>Taking someone else's work and making something from it makes the entire work your own
Rajesh, please.

>unironically wanting to become a wageslave

Lol, you sheep can keep arguing about which degree gets you the best wagie cagie job. I'll be relaxing, enjoying my comfy rich NEET life. Enjoy being slaves and betabuxs for a roastie in a few years.

did you even read my post?

a good engineer just use the information that he has and do something, that information can be new or can be exist and being used since a century ago
the idea is to do something good, useful and nice

Poo in loo, Rajesh

Inventing the combustion engine is applied science. Building the engine is engineering. Engineers "build stuff" and occasionally make improvements to that process. Scientists fundamentally reinvent the concept of the item or invalidate it entirely.

The first combustion engine was science. Improving its production process was applied engineering. Adding more cylinders to it and improving mileage was science. Improving that design process was engineering. Do you see the pattern here?

see

"maths" is impossible without a philosophy background, nobody needs to be a pure existential philosopher to do this shit but you 10000% need to be a logician to do anything of significance,

>Scientists fundamentally reinvent the concept of the item or invalidate it entirely.
scientist get a concept, engineer get the way to use that concept
>we can destroy japan if we break an atom
>ok, I will make the hammer

College itself is a joke anymore. Everyone and there mother has a degree in something, mostly "general studies" or some shit title like that. HR Types just look at it and go "ok" and that's about as much excitement as it gets anymore. After you land your first job the fact you got it drops way down the list. The framed degree itself lands in a box in a closet or attic never seen again till you move or die.

And you paid a shit load of money for this and got your ass buried in debt for something that ends up buried in a box.

Why would anybody get a CS degree at all? Just read and do all of the exercises in a couple of algorithm and data structures textbooks and you outperform 95% of CS grads in the topic of CS. Then, do some coding as a hobby on the side and thoroughly read a couple of books on software craftsmanship and you will outperform 99% of CS grads in actual software development. A recent high school grad could go get a bottom rung help desk job and then do all of the above things in 4 years time, then go get a real programming job. And by the time they started the programming job, they'd have a substantial savings rather than a substantial student loan debt.

Wouldn't be surprised if American CS degrees actually looked like this

Yeah dude no engineer has ever invented anything

My granddad built barns and shit on the farm. He didn't go to college or get some fancy degree in engineering. The barns are still standing 50+ yrs later strong as ever. He's 90 btw.

Or just get a "fake" degree online. With all the online colleges now it should be a fairly easy thing to do. Long as you are legit competent in the field the degree is in you should pass with out raising any red flags.

That is Boomer culture deciding that even burger flippers should have at least a two year college degree. Instead of raising the intelligence of the general population, it backfired and destroyed college as an institution of higher level learning.

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They literally do. The poster probably took his exact degree and recaptioned all the gen-ed classes as what they were instead of what they claimed to be. The diabetes class was probably called something retarded like 'health and society' the fashion one was probably 'Civics and contemporary culture'. They make you take shit like that and give it all of these nebulous names and the actual material of the course is something nobody in their right mind would sign up for if they had known about it ahead of time.

>Looking for software engineer job in large tech city.
>All high paying work requires 2 or 5+ years experience and a BS or MS in CS
>All entry level jobs to gain experience require bare minimum a BS in CS

I'm willing to admit I'm retarded if some one can explain why CS is a mistake in this situation.

Attached: omg me.png (1089x1018, 1.25M)

he could be a architect maybe, I don't think so, and less and engineer, but he build good barns, that is true

You definitely don't need a full CS degree to just get a simple programming job, the topics you described are sufficient to do well. However not everyone doing CS intends to spend the rest of their lives writing shit software.

engineers are the bosses of cs guys

Even disregarding the gen-ed classes that degree is terrible, why are there so many programming classes? I think I understand why CS degrees don't mean shit in the US now lol

Nah, the one I'm doing barely has any programming courses which are usually just 10-week

>not everyone doing CS intends to spend the rest of their lives writing shit software
Which is ironic, because that's exactly what almost all CS graduates wind up doing.
Because retards go and get CS degrees thinking they'll learn how to program, and then complain when they don't spend their entire degree learning how to write android apps. At the university I went to for computer science, you didn't need to learn any of the real computer science topics. No need to learn graph theory. No need to learn about compilers/translation. No need to learn about computability or complexity theory. Just pay $80/year to have someone who has never had a programming job in their entire life teach you about 'professional programming'. It's disgusting.

Requirements for IT jobs are just overblown anymore. For a low end Tech or Network tech job Certs should be all you need.

But no, HR Types overstate the actual requirements by a shit load just to make there own jobs easier. You don't need a 4 yr or 2 yr degree in CS or a college degree in general to do basic Tech or Network tech jobs. Just certs and common sense (read/write/think). Anyone who tells you that you do or that you need 5 yrs experience is full of shit.

It's just a /sci/ meme. I went to US after BSc in yuropoor and, apart from the BSc taking one more year (there's a lot of catching up since burgerland highschools are pretty much equivalent to kindergartens in yuropoor), it's pretty much the same as here.
The study plans are less rigid so you can usually get a degree without much CS, but there are still hard requirements.

It isn't just about the experience. HR roasties will expect you to have their EXACT meme stack of choice on your resume or they throw your resume straight into the garbage. Then you have to deal with the massively inconsistent and potentially stressful interview process. Many places will constantly whiteboard you, and this can last up to a month through multiple interviews. Even if you ace it all, you STILL may not get a job offer because meh. Then you have to start the process over again at another company. Once you finally get that job offer, you think you made it, right? Wrong. A few years down the line, all of your shit is going to be out of date and if your job isn't investing in you, you're going to be spending a serious amount of personal time getting yourself back in job market form again.

If companies actually are seriously hiring in your city, then, sure, go for it.

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Because they have to find the credits somewhere, and if they replaced those classes with math than 50% of the faggots doing CS would switch before their junior year. CS is a fucking joke. All you need is the basics and DS&A courses. After that you're pretty much ready to go, but because college is now a business they have to find ways to keep you there for 4 or more years. This shit makes me want to drop out so badly it's such a waste of goddamn time.

Ah that makes sense. Good to know they spend the extra year catching up (and on gen-ed I guess?) since I was intending on doing my MSc abroad too.

Why is it a problem if people who don't know what they are getting into end up switching? Why change the program rather than educating people what the program is actually about?
To provide another point of view, probably more than 50% drop out because they can't handle all the math where I'm studying CS (half the classes in the first two years out of a three year program are math).
So I figure it's just CS programs in the US and then not even all of them but probably just a fraction? I doubt CS programs at Ivy League or good state universities are actually that bad, but I could be wrong.

Programming != CS.
Math != useful.

>observed strange behaviour of certain types of traffic in real-world packet traces that didn't occur in simulations
Just me watching trap porn.

Yeah they have some gen-ed in BSc, thanks liberals.
MSc programs usually have few units for "communication", but other than that you can completely avoid any bullshit courses and pick only technical electives.
On uni where i did my MSc, it was 60 units for core, 45 for electives, 84 for projects, 6 for communications and it was a 16 months plan.

I did something totally different:

Got a job with the state. just H.S w/some college + certs. Pension, 401k, job security (can't be fired unless I really fuck up or state goes tits up broke). No stress or paperwork. No bullshit bosses. Job is easy shit - come in on time do whatever needs done then leave.

Most importantly - Can retire after 27 yrs w/ full pension and other benefits. Which means I'll be 50 yrs old and fully "retired" (14 yrs from now). No school loan debt for me. No debt at all other than my house to be honest. I dump a part of my pay in the bank each month for retirement padding.

So to recap; I'm doing far better than most other fuckers and able to retire and enjoy life sooner without worrying about shit after the fact.

You are correct. Some parts of it are science, some parts of it are even math (in fact some parts of it were math fields before cs formally became a thing, and merely got relabeled).
As for myself, I would argue the problem is that the term cs was coopted to mean something it never described for the sake of industry and because of ignorance.