Systemd

More like, it tears a million times less.

>Or does wayland mandate a standard protocol?
Yes and no.
There is the core wayland protocol which really is centred around buffer sharing and input, which everyone obviously supports. Then there are the basic desktop-style windows, which again, everybody supports (xdg-shell). It comes around to some of the more niche features where you may start getting into compositor-specific territory. There are obviously efforts to try and stop the ecosystem from fracturing, and most people want to play along and share and combine extension protocols, but Gnome is by far the worst for not doing this.

Hmm, I don't know. Last time I was tinkering with Qt to test the fast blur effect introduced in 5.10. So my idea was to take the underlying pixels of each window (transparency) and apply fast blur on them. I realized X11 was the one that would supply these underlying pixels of a window to KWin. (if anyone wonders why the new KDE Konsole blur does not work outside KDE's KWin, it's because of that)
Not sure how it's going to work in wayland.

I get no tearing in X

In that case the standard protocol needs to go a bit beyond basic framebuffer. Modern day window managers are able to do much more basic buffer I/O

That's probably not possible without the cooperation of the compositor, true, and it shouldn't be allowed by default. Consider a sandboxed application. It could effectively take screenshots of underlying windows that way.
In X11 of course anything goes. Any X11 application can just read everything including all keyboard input

what are you doing on Jow Forums then? Or Jow Forums in general?

KDE specifically has an extension to ask the compositor to blur part of your window with the background.
Without that, there is no way to see what actually exists behind your client.

>Virtually nobody uses actual X11 drawing functions but just sends complete bitmaps. X11 has turned into a really slow sort of remote desktop protocol
You're right about the drawing, but it's not as inefficient as copying the entire pixmap over each time. DRI2 and DRI3 are used to efficiently pass GPU buffers around without any extra copying, and SHM is used to pass CPU buffers around. It's the reason why modern X11 is not network transparent.

The way X removes tearing are hacks upon hacks. In Wayland, it's actually impossible to get tearing unless your client is doing something retarded.

>In that case the standard protocol needs to go a bit beyond basic framebuffer
The core protocol is deliberately minimal. It's not an ecosystem where extensions are taboo or frowned upon; they're actually needed to get most shit done.
In fact, the original "desktop surface" protocol was found to get too shit (and can't be fixed in a backwards compatible way), so it was replaced by an extension protocol.

I'm actually a wayland compositor developer, so I know a fair bit.

Should't sandboxed apps have different protocols all together? All apps are not sandboxed, stop preventing features like OpenBSD.

TearFee= True

>I'm actually a wayland compositor developer, so I know a fair bit.
Ah, glad to meet you.
Well I guess blurring is not an issue imo, I wish the protocol had an API that lets you access the pixels below the window, the GUI toolkit can blur those pixels themselves.
Problem with extensions are that they are not standardized. Anyone is free to implement their own extensions and that's a lot of wasted effort imo. Would like to see Wayland allows for MacOS like frosted glass aesthetics and gtk4 + mutter adapts to it.

it doesn't fucking work and you volunteering to aloha test. most people don't have time to spend hours debugging their DEs

Works on my machine

>I wish the protocol had an API that lets you access the pixels below the window
The breaks the isolation and security model that they put effort into having. Something like that would never be accepted upstream.
>Problem with extensions are that they are not standardized
Many of them are, some of them aren't. There is a repository of "blessed" extensions, and there is an effort to standardise on extensions of common functionality between compositors.
Clients should still be written in mind that some extensions may no be implemented. Normal clients (ones that just want a window) aren't going to have any issues.

As an possibly interesting side note, there is fundamentally no different between the core protocol and extensions. Sway does not implement wl_shell, even though it is part of the core wayland protocol (but deprecated).

It werks for me.

>works for me

so does x11. don't fix what isn't broken

It is broken, though.
Have you taken a look at how shit it really is?

I'm just gonna leave this here:
youtube.com/watch?v=GWQh_DmDLKQ
youtube.com/watch?v=Zsz7Shbnb9c

Attached: xorg.png (929x720, 708K)

systemd just werks

Wayland works better than x11 for me.

test

> I have no real opinion these, but I'll lean towards the freedesktop one, because Canonical is NIH shit.
Both of them seem more doubtful than AppImages to me.

github.com/AppImage/AppImageKit/wiki/Similar-projects

Are you one of those retarded newfags who thinks Jow Forums is only for shitposting and reddit is for actual discussion?

>wayland has been shilled as the second coming of christ for years
>2019 it still can't work as a proper X replacement

Attached: 1542848045096.jpg (1080x1080, 131K)

>people have complained about X being shit for the last decade
>Wayland is still the only alternative that is anywhere close to being usable

Attached: lainly.gif (500x384, 95K)

Everybody knew that this was going to take ages. You can't replace something so engrained overnight.
Also, most compositors have only been working on it seriously for the last 2 or 3 years, so it hasn't been going on as long as people seem to think it has been.

here
I was mocking Because it seems that people are always simultaneously complaining that X sucks while bashing Wayland because "X works just fine".

It's almost like those are different people.

Wojak automatically disqualify any argument you might have had

>the bloated X11 massive giant piece of shit still not going away anytime soon even in the next 15 years
wayland devs btfo how could they recover

>tiling window manager

Attached: fedora_neckbeard.jpg (625x400, 149K)

I got baited by the Wayland shills into trying it and it was a buggy piece of crap. Congrats you baited and trolled an user.

>gnome 3 is bad
>systemd is good

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Toolkits and Windows Managers already are doing all the shit by themselves, avoiding the X server as much as they can.
With Wayland you will have the same thing but straightfoward instead of tricks to avoid talking to the Rootkit Formerly Know as X.org

no absolute mouse input for fullscreen games (afaik only xwayland can do that and only on gnome)
in fact most compositors other than gnome (swaywm, way-cooler, ...) dont even support newer versions of the protocol

>absolute mouse input
What does this even mean? Is this some gamer snake oil or some shit?

>x11
>not broken
The meme feature of network transparency that greybeards use to argue against Wayland is, in fact, broken. And that's one of many things that are bad with X11

All of these are better than Windows. GNOME only by a little bit, though. Still on the fence about Flatpak.

I want to be able to install something with it and just run it through a launcher or terminal, and not enter arbitrary shit like `flatpak run flatpak.org.someshitapp` - that shit is fucking anoying.

>Gnome is better than Windows

Attached: 1547931985914.png (645x729, 179K)

@69576458
you didn't even earn yourself a (you), nigger

GNOME is pretty shit, but at least you can mostly customize it.

>(you)s are like my upvotes on reddit!

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Attached: flatpak_master_race.png (800x585, 1021K)

Apparently there are issues with screen recording and keystroke detection.

can confirm, screen recording doesn't work on skype and slack

A quick internet search shows that screen recording under GNOME Wayland is possible via a DBus api. If those programs cant record the screen, it is the fault of the program, not Mutter.

Based Satan 666 trips Steven universe poster

how do you even explain you're not a basedboy unless you're an absolute chad?

Last time I read here there's wlroots library that's supposed to enable ways to implement software capable of communicating with wayland compositors in a manner similar to X11.
Am I right? Would be cool have little programs for maximum ricer comfiness but in wayland.