This is now the only major browser that isn't based on Chromium that isn't entirely garbage...

I'd agree if it was before November 2017. I was one who would sometimes try Firefox, then hop away because it stuttered and ran like crap. It was like watching a retarded child eating glue. Or using IE8. Now it's at least good enough for me to fully switch, and it has nifty advantages like a multi-threaded CSS engine, a more open extensions API (Tree Style Tabs, also NoScript when I need stronger security for a moment) than Chrome, and it's not under Google. Also it looks better IMO, Chrome looks too cartoony with the curves and doesn't fit at all on Linux.

Firefox isn't installed on the two most popular operating systems by default would be the answer to your question

So isn't Chrome. If anything, Firefox is more likely to be pre-installed, as it's common as a default on GNU/Linux distros.

Yeah but chrome is being pushed by one of the largest corporations in the world, another thing Firefox does not have

Well, yeah you're right in that regard.

Also I was thinking of desktops, yeah Android has Chrome as the default and that doesn't help matters.

Yep, it's all about the marketing.

Firefox is available on Android but personally as much as I hate Chrome, it is the better mobile browser

Extensions too would have a bit to do with it, I know there's extensions I need for work which I can only get on chrome

Actually Firefox does have a trick up its sleeve on mobile, the extensions support.

However, they haven't ported over most of the Quantum improvements over and it still uses a single process, fucking why...

Try UC browser

WebExtensions are shit compred to XUL extensions. Much less powerfull and usefull.

Seriously ?

pervasive, obnoxious coporate sponsorships/advertisements (twitter, yahoo google, youtube search engines; pinned facebook amazon imdb... etc. in newtab)
quantum cellphone/tablet style idiocracy redesign,
continual settings page redesigns intended to rape the privacy of morons
quantums memory hogging, google fellating "security" and "web standards" shitfest
adopting googles "modern web" fingerprinting / tracking features uncritically and by default
feature creep, bloat
hello / webrtc
EME, cisco mp4
killing flash
killing xul
australis
pocket
cliqz/shield studies/mr robot/amazon affiliate link offer litany of minor ""scandals"" which do not afftect the broswer, because they get retracted and apologieze for, but nontheless indicate the malign intentions of its leadership.
...and Jow Forumsfags assblasted cause of eich

firefox is not googles "competition". it is in fact, controlled opposition.

it isnt yet completely worthless, but it annoys the shit out of me anytime i am forced to use it, and it gets compounded with every update.
the old interface was like kde 3 - light, configurable - but the new interface is like some unholy combination of the worst parts of gnome 3 and plasma 4. flatshit, grey on grey, pseudo tablet interfaces, bloat, non-configurability, and loss of visual identity.

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firefox os was hardly a wild goose chase:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaiOS

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A lot of people are pointing towards marketing, and while that's a good answer there is a deeper issue. At some point we became okay with client side scripting in browsers, and that's when things truly started going downhill. It necessitates browsers being bloated balls of garbage to deal with all the issues. And once the required project size exceeded a certain point it became inevitable that things would consolidate into one or two corporations. The browser market is shit because web standards these days make it impossible for the little guy to write a viable alternative.

>How did it come to this?
easy. they're the only major browser that isn't being heavily pushed by a huge well known company that makes their browser default on their hardware or OS. Most people, when they buy a smartphone or computer, are just going to use whatever browser it came with unless it's so broken even they search for an alternative.
>Chrome
Default on android. Chromebooks. Still has the reputation it got as a good replacement browser for IE. google is a fucking massive pile of a company that everybody knows and is actively pushing chrome everywhere they can. the average windows or osx user is probably going to go to this over their OS's default if they decide to change.
>Edge
Default on win10, and by extension pretty much all regular OEM desktops and laptops the average consumer will get from best buy. Gets pissy when you try to set another browser as default. Maybe some idiots change their mind when their OS yells at them
>safari
default on OSX and every other apple device since ever. some features of iOS require it and you can't uninstall it anyway. applefags are fucking idiots and refuse to use something else because 'muh apple'

>but user at least edge and safari are actual shit
doesn't matter to the average user. as long as it functions enough to be usable for social media they're not going to care. also pajeets on online support forums and shit saying that the browser is fine and the sites themselves are the problem. everything is fucked and nobody comes up with their own opinions on what tech shit is good or not anymore, and those that do don't have anywhere near the amount of knowledge on the tech in question they need to form an actual valid opinion about it

Market share means absolutely nothing when some browsers come preinstalled with widely used operating systems.

Let me clarify: For Mozilla. KaiOS succeeding doesn't help out Mozilla. And it happened after Mozilla abandoned Firefox OS.

But they're more secure. Sandboxing makes sure that an add-on won't install itself in, take full control of the browser, branch out and affect other parts of the system if it can, and requiring a deletion of the profile files, at least. Also without some safeguards, they also limited the browser from becoming multi-process. XUL had to die so people like me would return, because people like me would rather have a secure and fast browser rather than Mozilla Emacs.

WebRTC isn't bad. EME was needed for mainstream attention. Quantum doesn't hog as much memory as Chrome, especially if you limit the number of processes to the default 4. A modern flat theme isn't "mobile idiocracy" and Mozilla's theme is much more customizable than the Australis dark ages. Pocket will get open sourced, if it hasn't been already, and is a service the for-profit Mozilla Corporation could provide. And yeah about the Corporation, that's why we see bullshit like the Mr. Robot crap, which I hope from here on out that Mozilla Corp refrains from that crap. Good thing at first start they lead you with a prompt right to the setting to turn off shit like the "studies." Also, the "corporate sponsorship" is a bunch of links to common sites. Besides that, a list of articles from Pocket done in a modern Digg-like style that actually does get my interest, but I'm not the biggest fan of sponsored links they sometimes have. I got rid of that part, at least it's easy to do.

And finally:
>...and Jow Forumsfags assblasted cause of eich

If I see them get BTFO, that, IMO, is a good thing, and I'll get the popcorn to watch.

If you really wanted a secure and fast browser you would be campaigning to kill javascript and any other client side scripting cancer.

>But they're more secure. Sandboxing makes sure that an add-on won't install itself in, take full control of the browser
So does actually sandboxing while using XUL Extensions.

>XUL had to die so people like me would return
And their userbase as continued to shrink. So that really worked out, huh? By some metrics, they were done to like 6% user share as of November 2018.

Probably because people like me stopped installing it on people's computers.

Palemoon.

JS wouldn't be so bad if it was given even more sandboxing. Think of a website handled like an app. That's besides the point though that JS really does well with something experimental or a web app. If you just take a website that doesn't need it though, and slap in JS to be "smoother" and all that, all it does is open a security hole and waste resources.

That's a reason why I have NoScript installed, even if I admittedly don't use it often because I'm a horrible sucker for animations. At least the browser in general is strongly sandboxed.

>So does actually sandboxing while using XUL Extensions.
What that does (and I partially elaborated on this when talking about JS) is just sandbox the browser itself from the rest of the computer, but not within itself. That means no e10s and your browser profile itself can get infected enough that sometimes you'll have to trash the profile and start anew.

Because many stuck with Firefox for its power user capabilities, then it lost most of them, while the original nerds that pushed Firefox were sticking to Chrome and are often ignorant of the fact that Firefox is great again.

SeaMonkey, Pale Moon.
I have to remind you faggots every single thread.

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>Because many stuck with Firefox for its power user capabilities, then it lost most of them, while the original nerds that pushed Firefox were sticking to Chrome and are often ignorant of the fact that Firefox is great again.

Quantum launched, what, over a year ago, with TV ads and articles about it everywhere, right? I think most people just don't care.

I'm none of the 3 people you replied to but I'd like to at least let you know that I would never recommend firefox to anyone post-quantum
Firefox was for power users, until it wasn't
Everyone who still wants to act like a poweruser uses waterfox or palemoon, with all the memes that come along both of them
NuFirefox deserves to die, I wonder what's gonna be next

Honestly, FF will pry die, and then so will all the forks, simply because its too much work to maintain using a bare-bones crew. Shit will shift over to Chromium, and you'll see arguments between Brave and Ungoogled Chromium on this board.

>still not using GNU Icecat
Fuck's sake, what are you doing Jow Forums

Oh don't get me wrong, I already use ungoogled chromium because it works with unveil on openBSD
Firefox doesn't
I'm just stating that firefox literally brought this to himself
Many people here use the "chrome marketing" excuse, but they don't realize that people were already using firefox and they left because firefox stuck to retarded decisions, all of which have been discussed to death here
Google is a botnet, sure, but you can block most if not all of it and then you're left with a more than usable browser
nuFirefox is also a botnet, and if you block most of it you're left with a subpar browser

Agreed entirely.

>add yet more sandboxing to javascript
>browsers become even more bloated and the google monopoly even more entrenched
>haven't even solved the security and speed issues
Nice going ya dumb dumb.

>Firefox less market share than Safari and Edge
Source??
I had no idea that Firefox was so dead
Can we somehow blame Rust?
Fuck Rust!
RIP Firecucks

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>muh sjw
Firefox is a 64-bit browser on 64-bit systems. Therefore, there is no reason to use Waterfox, other than being a contrarian with an old software fetish.
gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share
It's still #2 on desktops at 9,5% but Chrome dominates everything, unfortunately.

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>It's just that every nerd and their mother was recommending Chrome back in the day
Fucking nerds
They are fucking evil and sociopaths
Bullies were right and we didn't listen
Day of the big nerd purge when?

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>there is no reason to use waterfox
What if you want to use tree style tabs? (Or any old add-on broken by 57)

>Therefore, there is no reason to use Waterfox, other than being a contrarian with an old software fetish.
Unless you're a power user. Quantum gimped what FF was.

You're vastly mistaken if you think Jow Forums wasn't *also* supporting chrome, if only to watch the microsoft IE monopoly to die
It's not until the 2010s that people started giving a shit about Google's monopoly on the web

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>Tree Style Tabs
ahem

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Btw I still use Firefox and I didn't switch to chrome even in the old Firefox 3 and 3.5 days when Firefox run like molasses and Chrome was actually fast because Firefox had the coolest add-ons
Btw, to all the cvcks using Chrome, how the fuck do you use Chrome? The text rendering on Chromium is fucking awful!

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Ok, what if you want to use a local file for your home page?

Because I don't slam my face against the screen or set the text size to 300.

Microsoft was never half as evil and shady as Google is

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>ahem louder
>Yes using a web programming assignment as an example

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>Never
Except that's exactly what they do with Windows 10.

i preffer ff cause they dont remove addons. hell you can even install noscript. other than that im average user and have not noticed big diffetence.

>sjws are ok
you know how I can tell you're a dickless bugman?

wat? every poodrone come with 2 browser preinstalled and one os always chrome

>never
How old are you?

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cringe

Who are you quoting, redditor?

Still they collect only a fraction of the data that Google (probably because Microsoft is incompetent at spying but still)
And Windows 10 has some switches to turn off "some" of the spying but Google has none
Also back in the days of "ms evil, google do no evil, we love google" microsoft was collecting zero data and zero spying
Google was absolutely subversive
They worked in the shadows and lied all the way

>no reply
waterfoxfag double btfo

Because they didn't have to spy on users, web advertisement wasn't a thing
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp.

>afload

I'm not interested in defending Google, as they are trash. But MS hasn't been innocent since at LEAST Windows 95, which is why they had an antitrust case leveled against them.

I didn't get BTFO, I am still here, I was this guy
I just didn't know what the current state of firefox was since I haven't used it in years and was going by Jow Forums memes

IE was a better browser back then
I don't see why Microsoft was in the wrong for building a better browser
>but they bundled it
They were ahead of the time, every OS now comes with a browser
Old Netscape was a mess and the gecko rewrite was a mistake
If Microsoft hasn't destroyed Netscape on merit Mozilla would never end up being open sourced
Active X was a little evil but everyone was doing it and was nowhere near as evil as what Google is doing
>but java
Again what Microsoft did was a little evil but they got punished, Java still exists and Microsoft java evolved into .NET and C#

Not sure if troll or underage zoomer.

>which is why they had an antitrust case leveled against them
I agree, Microsoft deserved the antitrust case
But why Google hasn't got an antitrust case against them?
Google is a bigger monopoly than Microsoft ever was, they are using their monopoly to destroy competition and expand, control all the information data flow and spy on everyone
Google should be dissolved by force as it is the enemy of the people

More sandboxing doesn't mean it's slower.

And I was thinking of things like the usual access to camera, to the filesystem, etc. That said, I think, after some thought, that Firefox and Chrome already do what I was thinking of, so oops.

Besides the fact though that Firefox can still so interesting things under its sandboxes, It's not a bad thing that it shed a lot of its power for the sake of moar coars and boxes of sand, stuff Firefox completely lacked until the versions leading to 57. I was saying though that it didn't help with enthusiasm as the nutjobs that stuck with the glue-eating fox in the dark ages mostly left, so Firefox had even less of a cult to spread the word. That said, if Firefox wasn't "NuFirefox" I'd be using Chrome, I'm not the type to go nuts on plug ins anyways, and I just like fast simplicity. Chrome seems to abuse that with more Google shit (remember version 68 or 69? Logging into Google also logged you at least partially into Chrome?) inserted into Chrome, while Firefox feels more simplistic, in a good way.

And the ads weren't too great and didn't do a good job of showing how fast Firefox was, just a bunch of people acting like this: :O

While I'm not opposed to antitrust legislation being level at Google, I do see their power waning. Say what you want about crypto currency, but I believe the future of the internet is decentralized. Life After Google is a good read, and I recommend it.

Thank you for the recommendation friend

Happy to help. I'll even give you a link to a free epub.
b-ok.cc/book/3558277/d33d60

>it isn't entirely garbage
that's where you wrong kiddo

Maybe they shouldn't have slacked off and let it run like complete shit for YEARS.

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>placebocat

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>Jow Forums is ok
you know how I can tell you're a bandwagon-riding incel? Two can play that game.

Chrome isn't preinstalled on Windows, iPhones, or Macs. Only Android.

cnet.com/special-reports/mozilla-firefox-fights-back-against-google-chrome/

i was remembering that article for some of the stuff I said.

>“No one has the particular skill set of Brendan,” but Mozilla now has hired a group of people who do, she (Mitchell Baker) says. “We’re past that.”

That article also link to another: cnet.com/news/why-the-death-of-the-firefox-phone-matters/ The devs there admit Firefox OS was a failure.

I wasn't trying to initially cite anything though, but good thing I found out where I heard of that stuff.

BTW, I will say Waterfox has its use, and the thing about free/open software is that you can do whatever you want. I will say I wouldn't want to use it myself, old Firefox was too slow for me. Just my opinion though.

This. The fact Firefox was eating glue in reponse to Chrome's arrival was horrible. And for years, I think even Internet Explorer had multiprocessing before Firefox did.

Gecko was a huge overcomplicated C++ beast
jwz.org/blog/2003/01/apple-says-fuck-you-to-mozilla/

Keyword is "was" though. As they started to replace it with Rusty Servo bits, things changed for once, and for the first time I used Firefox full-time, after being a Chrome fanboy since the early days of that browser.

>chromium because it works with unveil on openBSD
This. If firefox is not unveiled I am not switching back

>unveil on openbsd
man.openbsd.org/unveil.2
Damn, OpenBSD is fucking cool

Was it worth it?
WebKit/Blink is still the better engine (I think)
Why KHTML never gained traction?
And gecko still includes xul which never got anywhere
Why xul and xulrunner failed?

>muh Jow Forums politics
>not realizing the problem was that new leadership led to shakiness
>partially due to politics
>due to politics
>literally saying SJWs ruined FF in YOUR OWN WORDS
>anyone who disagrees is a Jow Forumstard incel nazi!
Please go back to Redddit and never return here. They could build monuments to the combination of your arrogance and ignorance.

First, at this rate both engines have similar performance. It mostly depends on the website, mix it with the fact Google has done shady things to cripple non-Blink engines for its own sites, and those are prevalent.

As for KHTML, it got eaten by Webkit, which got eaten by Blink.

As for Xul, isn't that like a GUI toolkit?

>As for Xul, isn't that like a GUI toolkit?
Yes, an abandoned toolkit that is so embedded in gecko and Firefox that when they try to remove it (which they will) all hell will break loose
When .NET and XAML came out Mozilla were like we got XUL and XulRunner which is the future (tm), XUL is the new Java and shit like that

If what you're saying is all true then IE/Edge should be the most popular browser

Ok, it did make the situation a bit worse. Whether or not it was a good idea to fire him, IDK. But each action does has consequences, and in that case, the fact the engineer behind JavaScript and one of their core leaders was gone. That can chaos without any political sub-context, except that it fired it off. That said, to play Devil's Advocate, would it be a good idea for him to stay in such an activist-y organization? As I said, IDK. That said, even this doesn't mean it ruined Mozila, it just caused some initial pains. Like the kind we saw with Void Linux or Solus, but without the "leader owns the rights to stuff like the github account" kind of shit smaller stuff like those two tend to suffer.

Also yeah, I may say stupid stuff, being up a bit late.

The thing I wanting to say about politics is that, besides acting like "SJW"ism is causing the problems single-handedly, You accused me of thinking that "SJW"ism is ok without any real good reason.

It just werks

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Hey, user. Did you build your ungoogled chromium yourself or just downloaded the package? I'm asking because I'm not certain the chromium package on OpenBSD is ungoogled, on the contrary, I'm almost certain it isn't.

Firefox is the only browser I can bother with these days. Only browser that has decent font rendering on Windows, doesn't stutter like a bitch, can be still customized proper. I won't praise it more than that but at least on this pile of shit browsers it's the cleanest one.

>decent font rendering on Windows
I see no reason why that should be worth anything.

I use brave browser cause it's made by the Firefox dude or w/e but zaps gay faggots.

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Except it's still basically an over-glorified version of Chromium.

Besides, if I wanted Chromium I'd get Vivaldi, that's got some nice advanced stuff for power users and comes from the Opera creators.

If all you do is watch youtube videos I can see your point

No. I mean, I don't use MacOS, so I don't care how font renders on MacOS.

Only absolute tards use Windows, and you're here, so I presume you aren't retarded. Why care about how font renders on a system you don't use?

I agree except-
>only browser doesn't stutter like a bitch
I don't remember Chrome stuttering either. Also there's a minimal difference in font rendering between the browsers.

As for customization, Photon indeed is quite customizable, I was able to remove tabs and let Tree Style Tabs be my tabs on the side instead,

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>have a browser whose main feature was customization and addons
>"lol, we're going to remove most customizations, kill most addons and destroy everything that made us different because we want to be a bad ripoff of Chrome"
>since Firefox won't stop copying Chrome, people think that using Firefox is useless and everyone moves to Chrome
>"I don't know what went wrong!"
Yeah, it's a mystery.

Safari isn't shit. Neither is Edge you dumb ass

toptenreviews.com/software/internet/best-internet-browser-software/

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Firefox still has more customization and addons than chromium based browsers though. Its also faster than before.