I know I'm probably not going to get a good answer due to the state of this board these days but I figure I'll ask anyways. What are some good ways to enjoy messing around with weaker hardware now that old computer prices have climbed by a ridiculous amount and don't seem to be stopping any time soon? I have a few computers from the late 80s that I enjoy taking out every so often just to appreciate how little hardware developers managed to get by with in the past, but now the rising prices have me scared that I won't be able to afford to maintain them in the future should anything break.
Just to make it clear. I'm talking about computers with a 286 at 12 MHz or Motorola 68000 at 8 MHz and 4MB of RAM max, so just getting a Raspberry Pi or other SBC really doesn't come close.
make a game in assembly for ms-dos mode 13h is your friend
Nicholas Ramirez
That really doesn't answer my question. That's just something one can do with old hardware that they already own (or an emulator).
Levi Taylor
The answer is, of course, to get into increasingly obscure old hardware that isn't being acquired by the hordes. Find something that interests you and go for it.
Adam Wright
The problem with that is aquiring parts for said obscure hardware. One of the computers I own is a 286 laptop. You used to be able to get one in working condition with accessories for $40. Now one being sold for parts will set you back $100 or more and there really isn't a way to get parts other than pulling them out of another machine.
Jack Long
I don't have anything that old, a around 2000 computer I just got for free so this is theory and repeating things I've read watched.
Learning to repair them and using modern adapters/emulators for things like hard drives (if you can't repair them) should keep them running. Before they break learn how to extract firmware and make disk images if you can't find these online. Make backups before they stop working so its possible to repair them. You may want to buy/get-free parts now instead of waiting because some components aren't made and the only way to get one is from another computer. I've seen a video on youtube about future proofing, here youtube.com/watch?v=XTqvhzB9ols also about not leaving batteries in, there's other people if you don't like that guy.
There's also plenty of older style computer kits to build/buy that use currently manufactured components, literally "retro computer kits". I'd stay away from the kits/computers using components that aren't manufactured anymore.
Jose Sanchez
There isn't really a good solution to rising prices for hardware that isn't being made anymore. Either be prepared to shell out more for your hobby, start using emulators/FPGAs, or move on to more modern computers. Maybe start playing around with Arduinos or something.
Elijah Bailey
Wait until millennial hit retirement age and have to consider the possibility of eating cans of dog food or selling their butter hoard of retro gear. At that point the prices will drop through the floor like boomer collectables did around the start of this decade.
Otherwise, look into emulation and FPGA systems. In the case of consoles the only really important bit of hardware ultimately are the controllers. But you won't do this because it's ~not authentic~ or some retarded shit like that since you are not serious.
Jason Bennett
The 8 bit guy on youtube has some videos on 'modern-vintage' computers that use old chips in new PCBs. He's even now working on one himself in the style of the C64. There's small communities around these computers making homebrew and games and stuff, mostly in BASIC.
Xavier Reed
>There isn't really a good solution to rising prices for hardware that isn't being made anymore I understand that I'm going to need to drop this as a hobby in the future unless I want to start spending significantly more money. I'm just looking for alternatives to fill the void.
>Maybe start playing around with Arduinos or something. I tried getting into microcontrollers in the 2000s, but wasn't really able to due to a lack of project ideas that I really wanted to try. Also the Harvard architecture sadly keeps you from really misusing them to the fullest as an extemely weak computer.
>But you won't do this because it's ~not authentic~ or some retarded shit like that since you are not serious. If I'm just looking to play games made for old hardware then I have no problem using emulators and do agree with your point about the controllers really being enough in that case. Using an emulator to appreciate old computer hardware for other tasks on the other hand just seems silly to me. There's a massive difference between having emulation software inform you of limitations that can potentially be straight up disabled by the software, and actually having to deal with the limitations of the older hardware. I am interested in the idea of implementing older hardware on FPGAs though.
Dylan Hughes
I'm not really sure I understand your question, but I'll try anyway.
You can try to look harder locally for good places to hunt for old hardware, like local brick and mortar auction houses, estate sales, surplus stores, large thrift store chains (a lot of them just toss these kinds of systems now, you can just try to explain your situation and ask to talk to someone in the back), old mom and pop computer stores, tech charities (also usually toss hardware like this because it's not useful for their clients)
You can suck it up and deal with the situation as it is online, and start saving money. Pick one really nice system you've always wanted to have and buy an example of it you know you'll enjoy playing with for years, I've had to do this for a lot of my more exotic SysV hardware.
You can look for better, accurate emulators for early systems of quality along the lines of Behrnard Baehr's PDP-8/E simulator. I've always liked the idea of building some kind of wrapper for SimH that tries to capture the physical "experience" along similar lines to that software.
Or alternatively, start going into embedded systems. Microcontrollers can give you a lot of the raw limitations you're looking for and are just as simple and really fundamentally similar to those older systems, or you can even play with retro microcontrollers like the 8051. PDAs and mobile devices are also another option, they're dirt cheap and run on quite interesting hardware, you seem like the kind of guy that would enjoy messing with DragonBall based Palm devices or early CE devices.
There's lots of options for you, just sucks it's not as easy to go out and buy nice older systems as it used to be. It's a waiting game anymore.
Here is a period super computer Dual core 68000, Z80, and dual SH2 processors 768KB of RAM 22Channels of audio CD-ROM drive Solid State storage optional 14.4k modem
>I tried getting into microcontrollers in the 2000s, but wasn't really able to due to a lack of project ideas that I really wanted to try. Also the Harvard architecture sadly keeps you from really misusing them to the fullest as an extemely weak computer. What kind of projects are you interested in with a more traditional desktop machine? I believe most if not all ARM Cortex-M0 microcontrollers nowadays are Von Neumann.
Charles Johnson
Learn to fix them when they break. The ICs rarely break by themselves. Most of the time a capacitor is blown or something. A ton of consumer old computers have their internals all documented, and new chips being made. There are some with their entire schematics reenginered (like the Altair 8800, there used to be someone making and selling brand new ones).
Gabriel Taylor
You're still going to struggle to fit things into tiny amounts of RAM that the emulated system has. You're still going to deal with the older video modes. The only 'limitation' that might be lifted by emulation is the CPU theoretically may be running at a higher clock, but it probably won't be because if it's truly old, then that will be breaking a lot of software that relied on CPU timing.
You're overthinking this and an FPGA is just as perfectly capable of being inaccurate or overclocked or 'not as limited!' as an emulator. The fact someone has written a hardware description in Verilog doesn't make it any more accurate than had they coded it in C++.
Julian Diaz
>PDAs and mobile devices are also another option, they're dirt cheap and run on quite interesting hardware, you seem like the kind of guy that would enjoy messing with DragonBall based Palm devices or early CE devices. Crap, I don't know how I forgot that possibility. A while back I messed around with a Nintendo DS running uCLinux and SSHed in from my desktop. I think I used it for my IRC and email clients for a day. Only problem was needing to massively downgrade my wifi security to do it, which is why I didn't continue with that.
>most if not all ARM Cortex-M0 Son of a bitch. I thought the entire ARM Cortex M series used a Harvard architecture like other microcontrollers. I just double checked and it seems only some of them use a Harvard architecture with the entire bottom end using a Von Neumann architecture. I'll have to look into messing around with those some.
Isaiah Hernandez
>alternatives for enjoying messing around with really weak hardware get a mac?
Luke Powell
>Apollo computers what's the deal with these? I can't find much about it on the internet, nobody talking about them, no testifications, nothing. I only knew about them from a passing mention in the UNIX haters handbook
Gabriel Watson
Learn how to program FPGAs and replicate chips or even whole machines in it
Aiden Jenkins
Not that guy, but the deal is that they were obscure because HP bought apollo before workstations really became widespread for certain tasks >I can't find much about it on the internet There are some sites if you search more. I think most applications for those computers (apart from the OS itself and some utilities) were never even sold and only used internally, and so became lost media
I usually network my PDAs through PPP over serial, I've wanted to try setting up a secondary non-broadcasting WEP network for wirelessly enabled devices though.
I definitely think PDAs and microcontrollers are worth looking at either way, fun putting those to work.
I guess they were quite popular systems in the 1980s, but I've never come across any myself, which is kind of weird, since supposedly they were the #1 workstation builder even beyond Sun.
They got bought out and run into the ground by HP through the early 90s, before then they seemed like quite decent 680x0-based graphical workstations.
>I've wanted to try setting up a secondary non-broadcasting WEP network for wirelessly enabled devices though. Turning off SSID broadcasts really doesn't improve security too much. You'd want to have a separate wifi hotspot and have it isolated from the rest of your network assuming you want to connect to the internet and not another machine on your network.
