What do you use to program a PLC?

The big boys use pic related

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IEC61131-3
Defines the languages used by most modern systems.

>big boys
>800x500
you're not fooling anyone, ant

Really? My digital logic professor swore up and down it was still done that way as of a couple years ago.

The 80s are over noone uses EEPROMs oder assembly these days.

fallen hair and dead neurons

they all have their own proprietary software with their own made up programming languages and it's all equally convoluted and horrible.

Its funny because you can tell it was written by Siemens because its 800x600 in 2019
also this

>FUB
>not step 7
Disgust

I retract, I know e-stop shit has to be graphically due to amrimutt logic and rules

There are specialized IDEs. You can write the program on, say, Windows, then compile it and transfer it over.

Hire an Iranian

Linux + C++ when working with Beckhoff CX9020, otherwise twincat 3.

Why would anyone use a soft plc

?

C++ is not IEC61131-3 compliant.
Every C++ code I've seen is horribly maintained.

kek

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I used to program PLCs in uni, we used ladder logic and the PLCs own programming applications (omron and siemens). I remember the siemens one being shit compared to omron.

Good times, I liked PLC programming.

>Its funny because you can tell it was written by Siemens because its 800x600 in 2019
all industrial stuff is literally 10-20 years behind in design

kek

Why not use an Arduino clone to control your prodction system?
It's incredibly cheaper, you can hire any ee freshman to add features, and no vendor lockin.

Allen Bradley's software. Cause in America you're probably always gonna be programming those.

what?

Do you of an Arduino with like 4,000 GPIO pins?

stuxnet was developed by the mossad in conjunction with the cia to silently reprogram siemens PLCs that that controlled iranian centrifuges used to extract U235 so that they would fail faster than normal
at first it spread across the internet, but it was programmed to stay dormant unless it detected it was running on that particular model of PLCs owned by iranians

it was developed by unit 8200 with the help of unit 81 and then was injected physically by the mossad/504 collaborators
why not search before posting ?

Only the finest cracked software.

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>graphical programming

puke.png

RSLinx Classic for Alan Bradley's \Rockwell
iFix for GE
Kepware for Kepware crap

um because process historians like PI won't work with it!!!

for the rock well stuff this

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Lmfao everything is being unified into micro networked API's and homogeneous control systems.

Absolute mad lad.

Has anyone bought a aliexpress plc.
Is it worth it? Im thinking of setting up a automated closing valve.

>has $20,000 for a PC
>pirates industrial automation software

They usually use whatever Rockwell supplies. An IDE of sorts. The tools are usually manufacturer specific.

Ironically this. Big corps use exactly what works and nothing more.

There will be a windows 7 migration shit show for this very reason.

how does one get started in plc? how will I know What module I will need?

>z80 assembly

Let me get this straight. People can't write C that doesn't crash without a shit tonne of skills and toolchains to keep it under control, and then you've got critical equipment managed by assembly.

>MFW

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testing. This shit is expensive and testing in production is fine until the plant goes down.

You program Kepware eh? Do tell

using PI as your historian. Disgusting

>how will I know What module I will need?
You don't, PLC's is not something you can self learn like a language then go out into the market.

You have to take a course offered by the manufacturer (Mitsubishi, Schneider, Siemens, etc...), then you can put that into your resume, if you're working on automation, your employer should send you into these programs.

If you want to learn how to program PLC's for yourself you certainly can, Delta has some very cheap units you can start with, but overall for personal projects, microcontrollers like arduino, PIC, etc..., are much cheaper and capable, raspberry pi like SBC's with GPIO are good too. But keep in mind no industry will put a self taught programmers behind their expensive machinery and they also use some mighty expensive PLC's, the cheapest units I have seen used on a professional setting are Mitsubishi FX3G and Schneider M221.

>You don't, PLC's is not something you can self learn like a language then go out into the market

Eh, it's really not that hard so long as you own a PLC and have the right software to program it. We covered PLCs in a control systems class I took in the course of getting my electrical tech associates and it wasn't anything I couldn't have learned at home if I had access to the hardware. We obviously didn't get into every nuance but I came out with a general knowledge of how to program and wire them.

Are you fucking retarded or just pretending?

mfw arduino would kill most PLC market by adopting ladder programming UI

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How is a PLC better than a microcontroller? I don't see why people wouldn't use $.20 MCUs instead of expensive and archaic PLCs.

Please refer to the second part of that sentence, it's the market that won't accept somebody with a proper certification, there are too many quacks in the industry professing skills they don't have and too many risk for companies to hire such people.

I guess that's fair. I'd market myself as having PLC experience even though I've only ever used one in that one class and don't actually that much hands on experience with them in general.

But what choice do I have? Jobs with ridiculous entry requirements means I need to bullshit a lot in order to simply prevent my application being immediately thrown in the bin.

This is standard for 80% plcs in new machines

Ever heard of something like MTBF and MTTF moron?

PLCs have hardware built into them for driving big relay coils and building automation protocols like BACnet and Modbus that are way beyond a technician's ability to implement in C code. They're also extremely well tested, designed to be reliable, and have all kinds of certifications. You do not want a stadium's lights to go out in the middle of a game because the arduino crapped out.

Right, but you could just add libraries/decoder ICs and the extra hardware to a PCB. I'm guessing the real reason is that it's from a big name and thoroughly tested. I would think there would be big money in making high quality PLCs for a reasonable price.

take pic related for example
This is a PL e Processor required for safety crucial functions on a plant
a shitty Arduino might be sub PL a
also cycle time
my company used to employ their own Logic controllers, first gen after Relay controlled lost the performance edge. That was like back in the 80s were PLCs used to be shit
No customer would accept that these days, they want trusted hardware and their technicians be able to troubleshot basic shit
They want to be able to get spares even if we could not supply them with

Siemens is fucking cancer, even by the standards of the cancer ward that is PLC programming.

t. just finished a PLC cabinet with 200+ I/O

- Real time operation with a known cycle
- A selection of interchangeable, replaceable modules with various kinds of I/O like ADCs, motor controllers, thermal sensors etc. that you have to DIY if you use a generic microcontroller
- IDE and programming languages that make it somewhat more difficult to fuck up than with your usual GCC
- Industry-standard communication like Modbus/Profibus already implemented

>Modbus that are way beyond a technician's ability to implement in C code.
On the other hand, it's super fucking frustrating when they have bugs in the protocol (like e.g. one side sends Modbus/TCP as 2 consecutive packets with header and data, and the other side treats TCP like UDP and refuses to re-assemble the packet) and you can do fuck all about it.

Once you have created modular I/O hardware and libraries to your microcontroller, made an IDE to work with ladder and block logic, rigorously validated and tested all of this, including interfacing with hundreds of varieties of third party hardware, you're already in the realm of the same unreasonable prices.

Some Russia bro has all step 7 programs and cracks for then so I can play around with the plc at work made by some Germans.

>watchdog times out and all the relays reset
no, you have these devices specifically because general computing platforms are too unreliable

It fits right in with the rest.

since loonix is so stable and can be tailored to literally anything why wouldn't one use such an os as a PLC?
inb4 I/O pins and industrial networking, you can fit all machines with such controllers and network them through ethernet magic or whatnot
and remember not every facility is 6 gorillion $ worth nuclear power plant or oil refinery with 9000 robots and other machinery pieces

>since loonix is so stable
it's not, and expect it to become worse
>and can be tailored to literally anything
it can't

Real time linux pops up sometimes but somehow disappears again each time.

what do you do in 2 years time when you need support or spare parts? buy replacement parts with a 12 year support life cycle or try and find the same "linux guy" who might be working somewhere else and wont support the mess he made back then because he "needs to update all his usr/bin/headers" since he is an idiot.

you are a moron. a PLC contains a micro controller. the difference between the 0.20c micro controller in the Mauser catalogue and the $5k CPU is the development, testing and accreditation by the manufactuer that it wont hickup and stop your million dollar process if it sees +0.5V on its Vcc In, since its just a chip. nothing more.

also STEPS/EDDI programing krew reporting in!

>Right, but you could just add libraries/decoder ICs and the extra hardware to a PCB.

guess what you have done. you have turned your 0.20c micro into a PLC. I wonder what siemens/ABs R/D budget is? $100million? There is no "doing on the cheap" in industry.

try and do an entire production line one day

I'll have you know even the siemens sales reps have keygen software for getting people out of the shit.

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>has $20,000 for a PC
>pirates industrial automation software

More like:
>pirates industrial automation software
>has $20,000 for a PC

HMMMMM?

pic related and TwinCAT 3 for "self use"

C6030 for real projects

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what kind of mcu do newer plcs use inside? are they ARMs or custom architectures?

/thread

Kepware is an off the self product and I've only ever used to pull tags into PI.,sorry but that doesn't count as programming I guess.

PI uses interfaces called PI Interfaces to connect to OPC Servers that get the data from a PLC, etc.

PI is a pain in the ass to deal with and when it breaks you usually have to call the vendor who makes it.

What Data historian's do you recommend?

siemens upper 300 range use

infineon.com/cms/en/product/microcontroller/32-bit-tricore-microcontroller/

>> Using the AURIX™ scalable platform, developers will be able to implement applications like motor control and drives, PLC or any other automa tion application. Developments using AURIX™ not only require less effort to achieve the SIL/ IEC61508 standard based on its innovative safety concept and multiple HW safety features

listing for the SAL-TC399XX-256F300S BC part on mauser is $40 USD. just for the chip.

no wonder the siemens 317-F / 319-F are listed from $5000 USD just for the CPU with one of the $40 infineon parts inside

interesting

I think that's just io mapping

Why the DisplayPort port?

>low level programming

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I like how the chinks make compatible Mitsubishi clones with old S7 200 series moldings.

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S7 200 belonging to Siemens.

AWL > ALL
SHIT FUCK

The z80 and more specifically the ez80 is still a very popular processor in embedded systems

the F indicates Failsafe, this thing has 2 Microchips running the Program in each at the same time and compares the outcome

>ladder logic
Combines ease of use of Assembly simplicity of COBOL. The single worst programming interface I've ever seen in my life.

Just use a hurrduino or stm discovery.

Not really, It is like that because it is very similar to how you would draw relay logic when you only had mechanical components to work with.

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for a simple task with small number of IOs where you dont want to fuck around with needed peripheral shit for Arduino, a smart relay fits that niche perfectly.
some have Stand 0-10V/4-20A analog inputs and 10A output relais on top of Realtime clock

they can be bought cheap if found used

No, it doesnt, it has 1 chip. the failsafe program runs on the same core as an interrupt.

The failsafe program is compiled and then the inverse of the logic is compiled at the same time. The failsafe program is called in an interrupt, e.g. OB35 every 25ms

These prices are not unreasonable when you make more profit in a day than the PCL wall costed.

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That is because you never seen an electrical drawing in your life.

Well that one's more like a cabinet. A lot of these are like this:

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I have and boy am I glad modern software can follow the traces for me.

This being a typical control circuit drawing students would connect up during the first week in trade school. (15-16 years old)

First year consisting of Automation, Electrical (house wiring) and Mechanical (Lathes) work.

The next year being more specialized.

can you just imagine some noob turning up with an arduino mega and trying to run a steel mill with this mega2560. any time a motor would start, the arduino would trip out!

w3.siemens.com/mcms/programmable-logic-controller/en/basic-controller/s7-1200/cpu/Pages/Default.aspx?tabcardname=standard cpus