Muh job offers

>C# > Java
yea sure this botnet solution is much better, tell yourself that more

I didn't realize India used Jow Forums this much

>that false dichotomy
What about the plethora of jvm languages who all have far better syntax than this shit-heap of a language

I'm a Finn and thus whiter than you, la creatura. Stay buttmad that some people are able to capitalize on their brand of autism.

Quality post

>Finn
>White
Shut up you russo-asiatic rape baby, your race only developed white skin to hide from each other in the snow.
>Capitalize
Employment and enjoyment are not the same thing snow nigger

If you want to learn Java. What should you make?

Most people don't enjoy it because they never wrote a real application with it apart from Student.cass and don't understand most of the more advanced features and APIs like Stream, Flow etc..

a noose

Fizzbuzz, enterprise style. Overly complex inheritance and dependency injected hierarchies with xml magic strings are the only thing Java is good for

Calendar/Diary app

Java will be taken over by Python. When it happens, I'll drive my truck into the nearest gas station just to get on television and when they asked me why I did it, I'll say "Python is our lives now".

This guy gets it

I think you should either create a Web Service or a JavaFX application because both will force you to learn how to use the tools of the Java Ecosystem (Maven, Gradle, libraries etc)

Be that as it may, I'm still whiter than you, and
>I like Java because there's fucking nothing that doesn't already have an enterprise-tested solutions and libraries out there.
Try not to get shot by a cop while you cross the streets, dispatch just told them a mutt-colored shitheel just robbed a store two blocks over.

>Java will be taken over by Python.
Imagine being THIS retarded. There can't be a worse place on this planet than this board.

>Enterprise-tested
is code word for
>Janky ass shit with no documentation that I can blame somebody else when it breaks
or have you never worked on enterprise-quality code?

>he doesn't know Java at all
>force a total newbie to configure Maven and Gradle on his own
Are you trying to push him away from programming?

I use kotlin btw. But java is fine as well.

To be honest Python has taken over Java as the language to teach in universities so the guy wasn't completly wrong, who knows maybe he wasn't wrong at all

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pajeetware

Java is only popular because it's very easy to teach.
So failed programmers nobody else would hire can get a job as a university/college teacher making 1/10th what successful programmers make.
Fact.

Universities are completely out of touch with the industry, believe me, even the best ones are two miles behind their own ass.

In my area Java trainees with no education earn more than people with a master degree in meme magic.

I too appreciate blaming retarded vendors for my problems, but I really don't like working with poos, Chinese, or polish; and my country doesn't have import/export laws that keep them out. So anything that makes their job harder makes mine better.

Uhm, no? If he can't get into Gradle or Maven he should forget about programming in the first place.

Imagine being this retarded. You can't run something like Netflix on Python. Won't ever happen. Python is too slow. Why do you think dropbox ditched Python?

Hell, while you're at it, why not tell him he should start with COBOL?

Java is great. It isn't great for everything, but for some things it is better / faster than C/C++. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a fucking retard. You want to use the right tool for the job, and sometimes java is the right tool.

Please tell me what do big data in if not java/hadoop OP.

Are you retarded or somthing? How the fuck are you going to write Java applications without knowing how to use Gradle or Maven?

>person doesn't even know the syntax
>are you retarded, he needs to learn how to configure deployment tools before writing hello world
Are YOU retarded or something?

>force a total newbie to configure gradle on his own

you mean making a file with the following 3 lines:

plugins {

id 'java'

}

calling it build.gradle, the placing your source code in /src/main/java then letting gradle handle everything else?

Whoa yeah we shouldn't bog the beginner down gradle is used because its so complex to set up and understand you might need to study computer science for a few years to do what I just described.

no, they don't like Java because they've never written a real application in C++ and seen what a fucking dogshit overly verbose language with absurd levels of retarded feature creep it is

describing C++ if that wasn't obvious

The funny thing is that learning Java with Gradle is easier than learning Java without Gradle.

>Magic config files and directory structures is the right way to design a build system
Even node is better than this retarded shit

Java vs. C#
Which one?

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I'd agree. beginners are the type of people who would be very prone to forgetting to re-compile some random package after they made a change to it and spend an hour trying to track down bugs before realizing their mistake. gradle just works, and for a ton of projects all you will need is those 3 lines, you don't need all these fancy plugins.

As a language, Java isn't that bad. Some will claim it to be verbose and use Hello World as an example of that, but apart from "public static void main" and the fluff needed to get started, it's really not that bad. The problem with Java has been the culture. Java people got obsessed with elaborate type hierarchies and design patterns. This lead to crap like AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean. And no, that's not a parody. That's a real class in Spring. The Java culture of gross over-complexity is a problem. However, the language itself is rather predictable. It's not often you get weird surprises like C++ has (implicit constructor calls for example). There are Java libraries for everything and the tooling is great. Just be aware that you'll have lots of coworkers named Sanjay Patel and lots of code bases that look like Enterprise FizzBuzz. I don't blame Java itself though for the culture around it.

comparing Gradle with npm is the most retarded thing I've read on this board today.

Have you actually ever programmed in Java?

> magic config files

It looks in /src/main/java and compiles, what exactly is magic? Literally any company using java right now is using gradle, so your "is the right way to design a build system" comment is correct, it is the right way. It lets devs get shit done without having to worry about makefiles/compiling/linking like other languages

C# for the demand.
Java for the wide job market.

C# is better but Java is more popular, it depends on your criteria

C# is a better programming language. What to use depends on your needs and current stack

Yes, for a pajeet infested health care enterprise in California, it was the worst job I ever did and I quit my last company because of it.

It looks in
>Magic directory that beginners don't know about without using a shitty IDE
And compiles using
>Magic compiler selection and argument generation that most experienced devs don't know
And puts results in
>Magic jar file with magic metadata

It's literally fucking magic all the way down. The only thing worse is getting tomcat to deserialize json in jaxrs correctly. I agree not putting everything on the beginner's head up front is the right thing, but Gradle is a shit show of undocumented magic spells and plugins.

HOBBY PROGRAMMING
WHICH ONE WOULD YOU CHOOSE?
OR SOMETHING ELSE/

I enjoy Java 8+, wish it had generics without type erasure though.

it wasn't thank you

C# is arguably the best general purpose programming language.
If you are more into scripting langs, python.
If you need to go low level and need power/control, C and C++.
C# is sowhere between those two worlds

>Yes, for a pajeet infested health care enterprise in California, it was the worst job I ever did and I quit my last company because of it.
Why are you larping now?

It's weird because everything you say makes it look like you never even touched Gradle.

I always thought the "paid Microsoft shill" is a meme on Jow Forums but the threads I've been seeing actually confirm this.

Post arm right now to prove that you're white.

C# is the better language
Java has the better ecosystem (so everything around the language that isn't the language itself)
Both are very reliable and predictable and get the job done perfectly in an enterprise setting.
Few people use either of them for hobby programming though, they're not made for scripting or small applications.

C# you're limited to Windows...which isn't a bad thing, but if you'd like to get server admins on your radar...both.

dumbass

>Magic directory that beginners don't know about without using a shitty IDE

nope. literally just have to tell beginners "/src/main/java" and thats it.

>Magic compiler selection and argument generation that most experienced devs don't know

Yep, the beauty of gradle.

>Magic jar file with magic metadata

I can tell you don't use gradle, using the 3 lines I gave above it just compiles your code and generates class files, the exact same thing that javac does.

You are arguing because you have a complete misunderstanding of how people should be taught. I know when you were taught you compiled using javac in the terminal so thats how you think beginners should be taught and thing like generating a build directory seem like magic to beginners.

How is using "gradle build" and more magic than using "javac" for your program? How is generating a directory any more magic than generating a class file? The only reason you are opposing these things is because its not the exact way you were taught when you started lmfao.

fuck off snow nigger, nothing you say will ever convince me Gradle is good, Java is decent, or my lived experience of dealing with curry smelling rooms filled past fire code with unshowered h1b's, all slapping away and NPE unsafe dead branched code with magic maven and Gradle plugins and a fundamentally broken deployment process that takes 2 fucking months to get one function into production is a larp you dirty fucking faggot.

>This tool is awful, hardly anyone knows how it works
>I know, isn't it great?
Sure thing sijahd

>fuck off snow nigger
there we go

Did you just wake up from a coma? Mono has been a thing for over a decade and official support via .NET Core is like 3 years old now.

>Mono
hahahahahahahahahaha

Abstracting menial processes into simple steps is the foundation of computer science. You are just being a neo-luddite sticking with javac.

>enjoy
you are supposed to get shit done not entertain yourself, filthy manchildren

It's a robust language that can and has done everything you need it to do, and has done it for decades so it's time tested.

Lmao are you still in school or are you actually a dev? Nice non-argument, I thought you would at least try to refute points still but I see we have regressed to saying names that indian people have.

>no u

This is excellent bait, I almost responded seriously.

;^)

When in doubt say the other person is trolling mmmmmmm your delicious tears that form from absolute butt blasting hurt.

Nigger, nobody gives a shit about javac, hiding invocations of commands is a poor design and always will be.

A better way to put this is: explicit behavior is always better than implicit behavior, and the entire Java ecosystem is built on implicit behavior.

Am I nigger or Indian? Either way I'm a much better dev and make more than you ;)

> Hiding invocation of commands is a poor design and always will be

Holy shit so you write everything in assembly? Literally think about what you just said lmfao.

I gotta admit, the first time I was confronted with Java at university I absolutely hate every single bit of it. But all this "magic" setup mumbo jumbo in particular. It's really a bit much for a start. Thankfully, and at the same university, my first contact with a programming language was Scheme (yep, SICP all the way), and that's just so much better for a jump into the cold water introduction to programming, or just a new language/environment.
Today I really like Java, and even use it for personal stuff every once in a while (javafx is nice).

You're on Jow Forums so you're a nigger
You like Java so you're an Indian
You write like an Indian so you're a faggot, you bastard bitch

Pure white writing deep learning libraries in C++ as my full time job, but nice cope. Gradle is good, you're just too stubborn/hard headed because you learned things differently. You also don't address things that I say, so you're shit at arguing too.

Did Java until I switched over to C#. Java pretty much feel like ducktaped tools, it work but somehow unpleased.

C# work better for me but Visual Studio eat fucking amount of GB than most Java IDE softwares.

All your refuting is just agreeing with my complaints. Explicit is better than implicit. If you disagree then I'll happily never work on your shit spaghetti code and we'll both go our merry ways. Gradle is shit and you're too invested in the tooling to take a step back and try teaching it. I don't address your points because it's fucking Jow Forums and you're a nigger.

Thank you for confirming retardation/not saying anything of value.

can you give us an example of what the fuck you are tgalking about?

>A software engineer who hates certain languages is like a construction worker who hates nail guns and hacksaws with a passion.
That's retarded. There are brands of tools that you would stand by and use more than others. That's what languages are like to a construction worker.

>enjoying your work
Literally a commie

> basically every enterprise application

Why anyone wants to write "enterprise" applications is beyond me. 99.999999999% of enterprise applications are nothing more than simple CRUD apps.

Sure
I'm in Gradle, right?
Tell me using help installed on your system and not on the internet how to set the entry point for my program.
Can you configure kotlin or another language from memory?
What's the method of packaging an Android app so so I can install it via adb?
Where do I add my xml resources so that Gradle compiles them in? From memory now.
Oh man, what's the way to resolve dependency conflicts again? I can't quite remember.
I need to deploy an ejb, got the magic Gradle script for that off hand?
Shit, my 3d app has shaders it needs compiled, can you teach me how to get Gradle to do that?
I built a library but I didn't install it to the maven repo (what even is that), how do I use it in my Gradle project?

See? Magic. And this isn't just inherent to Gradle, but Maven and even ant to some degree, and to all of the Java ecosystem (glassfish anybody?) You're right when you say most devs don't "need to know all that", but that is only true because they're doing useless make-work for a retarded corporate that thinks devs are replaceable fodder you import from India, and only about 6 people there know what the hell is going on and how to fix it. You don't need to know these things all the time, but they need to be easy-to-use when the time comes because it will eventually fucking happen and you'll be pulling hair out for weeks trying to get the right version of gson so you can parse iso8601 correctly into a timestamp because the retard who's in charge of the entity layer decided to use java7 instead of java8 but your frontend devs only use new Date().now() in 50 different places.

> nobody understands Java's extremely shitty implementation of basic functional libraries that have existed in other mainstream languages for decades

This is what Pajeets actually believe. Go and Java are made for retards and the creators admit this.

web servers. You won't get anywhere writing C++ and spending half your day on serialization just to eke out a 00.3% performance boost

Oh now I remember that retarded library's name
Fuck joda and the horse it rode in on, useless piece of shit

Node is under better for this than Java, and I'm a rabid hater of js on the backend

use intelliJ its free

Nope. Netty is #1 on the performance rankings, and you should be using webflux so that your threads don't block.

Non blocking multithread > event loop single-thread

s/under/unironically
fucking phone posting I swear

>Use a magic IDE, it'll solve your problems I swear.
A broken fucking record

>hurrdurr i only run my own version of TempleOS that i compile myself
fuck off

There are async libraries in C++, C and Rust that are substantially faster than Netty and they also use 1/10th the amount of memory. Webflux is complete garbage just like everything that comes out of Spring.