Home Backup is technology

How do you make your backup without spending a lot of money on expensive NAS? Any good DVD-R discs (with M-Disc or not) recommendations? How do you store your discs?

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blurays are generally similar price, or cheaper than DVDs.

for example, 600 DVDs at 4.7GB each is $99.

Total size ~2.82TB


100 verbatim Blurays at 25GB each is $94

Total size ~2.35TB

Around 500GB less for the same price, but you're only writing 100 discs instead of an entire library of 600 discs.

And if you are willing to spend a bit more, dual layer 50GB discs aren't all that much more expensive. Though triple layer and quad layer discs can get expensive.

I seriously doubt most people have that much personal data worth archiving. One would probably have to do something creatively digitally to generate files of particular amount and size to see the benifit of storing that on a larger format medium.

If you're archiving a media library it could easily be 20-30TB+

>Expensive NAS
>4TB brand HDDs can be had for sub 100
>6TB brand HDDs can be had for sub 120 if you catch a deal
A HDD also doesn't degrade because of the organic material rotting.
Actual archival DVDs and Blurays cost way more than 100$.
HDD and tape still is and likely will remain for a long looooong time the cheapest option for home and enterprise.
/thread

Also forgot those archival DVDs/Blurays can't be burned with your run of the mill burner but need expensive equipment.

>Actual archival DVDs and Blurays cost way more than 100$.
actual archival means 30+ year lifespan.


If you just need a backup for 5-10 years, standard DVDs or blurays in normal plastic cases on a bookcase will last easily that long and be far far cheaper.

Especially if it's not mission critical data, like old movies where you wouldn't be upset if one out of 50 discs is damaged after a decade.

I back up my NAS to a couple of drives which I keep disconnected and in protective HDD cases when not in use.

At work had discs rot way faster than the minimum 5 years before and it's not uncommon for them to do so. There is a big difference between burnable discs you buy and the ones used for movies. But you shouldn't rely on only one backup anyway cause then you might as well have no backup at all.

obviously, I would use offline HDDs for the first backup, discs for archival or in-case the backup HDDs fail.

I prefer tape to archival disks. Slower to restore yes but cheaper in the long term. Especially considering storage, testing and proper disposal.

>But you shouldn't rely on only one backup anyway
Well a 'backup' implies there's another primary copy somewhere, so you've got everything stored in at least 2 places. If not, then it's not a 'backup', it's your primary copy.

And people still think backup means loading stuff off on an external HDD and then being shocked when it fails so excuse my use of the word backup as meaning a copy of life data from some system.

What is the best quality blank blue ray media? FOr CDs and DVDs I went with TY branded discs (still have 1000s of beach), are there any discs that will last 100 years?

maxell

it's really not a good option for a home user setup, but i agree on the business level, yeah archival tape makes more sense.

IMO that depends heavily on if you can get a used tape drive from some local company or off craigslist or ebay. But at MSRP yeah tape is not a good option for home use, unless you have a truly extensive homelab.

lol
TY and Verbatim

>if you can get a used tape drive from some local company or off craigslist or ebay
yeah fair enough, that's highly variable though

Exactly. I got extremely lucky and was able to take home the old LTO-6 drive from work. But that was really lucky and the average person will not have that luck.

Even getting a 2nd hand tape drive is risky, since you're very fucked if that shit breaks. Your tapes become inaccessible until you can replace it, which could very well mean ponying up a very large sum. With HDDs you don't depend on a single piece of equipment to access them and you're not horribly fucked if one drive breaks.

Having tape does not mean you can discard HDDs. Tape should only be used to archive and for worst case disaster recovery. Your PC exploded and your HDD backups died in the fire while the HDD at your parents house also imploded at the same time kind of disaster.
And generally you should never have a backup strategy with a single point of failure no matter what that point is.

Sure, if you're going to keep 4 copies of the data as you claim, then tape would only be an archive (primary, HDD backup, HDD backup at your parents', tape archive). I don't think most people looking for deals on backup storage are going to be using 4x the storage their data actually occupies.

I do that for friends and family because I know they neither want to or have the knowledge to but want to have reliable backups of their family photos etc. and I do this for my homelab anyways so yeah. But I absolutely know that my backup strategy is beyond what most small to medium companies have and that it makes me a total fucking autist. Especially considering I have a 5th backup in form of encrypted cloud backups on two platforms.

Yes, I think it's fair to say that most people looking for bargains on 2-3 gen old tape drives aren't interested in paying for 6 backups and as such eventual hardware issues with the drive itself are most definitely worth considering when buying 2nd hand enterprise gear as I initially pointed out. Your use case is far out of the ordinary for people looking to have a backup of personal files, I'm sure.

All these niggas talking about tapes and dvds

Just get an old computer and stick a big drive in it, turn on every week or so, rsync your shit, turn off, be done
Occasionally swap hard drive for one you keep at your parents house, even off-site backups done

Buy a 5.25 HDD bay and use the HDDs like VHS cassettes
~ Icy Dock MB971SP-B Storage Bay Adapter Internal awesome-electronic.com/en/webfiles/382ca87a-8dc8-4b64-9c5a-ec6c41980d6a.jpg

Realistically speaking, would an M-Disc last 50 years in a briefcase stored indoors? I've been planning a time capsule to seal this June, and want to know if that's my best choice without spending a fuckton.
I also will probably keep an encrypted copy of the contents with the key locked inside the case if the disc fails, but I'd really like them to still work.

At what point do you start using LTO

>would an M-Disc last 50 years in a briefcase stored indoors?
I think it would. It was designed for that afaik.

But will anyone have a working drive for it 50 years from now? Optical drives have been steadily going away for a while now and they only came into prominence in the 90s, not that long ago.
>encrypted copy
You will also need to keep around a copy of whatever program you used to encrypt them, and possibly the OS that it requires, and possibly a computer capable of running that OS

100TB+

I have lots of shit in old DVD-R's and CD-R's

Should I get a tape drive to store them? My company pays for stupid hardware expenses, might get away with something like that

Realistically no, not unless you're talking 10's or even 100's of thousands of them.

I probably have a thousand put together

But of course that also means the effort and time of transferring that shit, eurgh

A thousand dvds would be about 4.7 TB, assuming they're full
Assuming they're not and a bunch of them are cd-roms, a 2-4 TB hard drive would be enough

>NAS
>as backup

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A single HDD is by far a better choice.

I'm choosing the Blu-ray ones since they are widespread enough to not completely fall into obscurity by then (and store enough for this), even if working hardware may be a challenge.
I plan to include a windows 7 disk image, as well as a bunch of utilities and their complete documentation (ffmpeg, 7zip, etc.) in case the formats do fall into obscurity as previous ones have, included in both the disc itself as well as with the encrypted backup. I want to make damn sure I can still access it, to the point where I plan to even include dumped data as plaintext alongside in case the original format is unusable.
I honestly think I'm more likely to die before opening it than lose large amounts of data from incompetence, unless of course the discs fail and I somehow lose every copy of my backup.

Pair of N40L Microservers w/freenas each with same copy of all data. Zyzel nas with copy of core data only + 6TB external with another copy of the same data.

Media server with refs raid 5 that gets the most use. Compact setup, not loud, the only way my data can get lost is if my house burns.

So all in all that's 5 different physical devices that all have to die and I can suffer 5 drive failures all combined before redundancy itself is lost.