Programming is salvation

bathroom breaks and a cellular phone

absolute cringe

It's nice and constructive. When I'm in the zone, time fucking flies, and that's an almost-daily occurrence.
But i wouldn't call it anything but personal salvation - programming as a whole has made, is making the world a worse place. Software has massively leveraged what one person can do toward evil, and the whole internet and much of the world has been colonized with computery bullshit.
Try watching TV commercials and notice how many of them show people in computers and phones. Sucks.

>Software has massively leveraged what one person can do toward evil
It's funny how retards like you consider what people do with computers 'evil' when a century or so ago people were killing each other by the millions and inventing atomic bombs

>whataboutism
>calling others retarded
OK

"massively" is a relative term, implicitly drawing a comparsion to other things that may enable one person to do evil, and compared to all the shit that's happened in the real world it's fucking piss in the ocean

Everyday my dotfiles get bigger
but the amount of projects I author stay at zero

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programming made me a bloomer but my programming job turned me into a doomer real quick

>Otherwise your biggest hope is to be a cog in some shitty business doing repetitive shit and being surrounded by limp-dicked faggots who watch you with hawk eyes in case you say something that doesn't mesh with the office politics.

For a good salary

you are good in programming because you have a predisposition to logic and problem solving. Not everyone is made for programming just like not everyone is made for art or hard math.

Good for you user

I don’t call myself a real programmer because I only built custom websites using Wordpress. Heavy use of the wp api with the occasional Ajax. I can’t just sit down and write an mvc app or whatever though. Anyway, after about 6 years I got burned out and found a job in tech but not webdev. It’s amazing. I also started developing a wordpress plugin in free time and...it’s actually fun.

You should look into different jobs. If programming is something you truly enjoy don’t let a job ruin that enjoyment.

I'd shoot myself if I ever had to work with wordpress. I am lucky enough to avoid it all. 90% of the projects I work on nowadays are SPAs so I feel sorta blessed I guess.

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Yeah I understand that. What do you build SPAs with?

React with Typescript. I'm always up to date on everything frontend related. It moves fast, which keeps me from getting bored. Pays a ton too. I finally got a fully remote job like a few months ago and it's the first time in my life where I feel comfortable. No more crappy 1+ hr one way commutes for me! :)

Our backend is interesting... we use Go and we transfer data with protobufs to the frontend (via grpc).

Nice. I looked into react a few years ago but was too much of a retard to understand it.

>when a century or so ago people were killing each other by the millions and inventing atomic bombs
using prehistoric computers
just imagine what these ones will do

>even though I'm an atheist
>I feel closer and closer to God
How would you even know what that feels like?

You're a moron. Grow up and stop acting like technology is ruining the world, your life is better than 99.999% of lives ever lived, pull your head out of your ass be thankful for once.

Good hobby, horrible profession.

Working with hardware (fixing computers), and Sys Administration is way more enjoyable as a profession because things that are fun or easy to program, aren't what you are going to be making at a job.

Well that's just not true. I make fun things for 8 hours a day. The actual programming is way more fun that the product anyway.

Good for you.

i've been making fun things with software for a living for 30 years. sys admin and fixing computers for a living would drive me fucking nuts.

>nobody will give a shit about what you built because millions of Pajeets can do the same thing for 1/20th the asking price
t. in it for the money don't actually give a fuck about programming

Imagine having all your life shaped by Jow Forums. How pathetic.

What makes you think that, autismo?
I used it meme analogy to keep it short for fucks sake imagine being such a collosal faggot

your life is a fucking meme

>started programming
>no fap
>cold showers
>closer to god
Literal memes, and you fell for all of them

Hey, cold showers are pretty gud.
They really help to cut shower time.

how do you take a cold shower without giving yourself a heart attack?

>i've been making fun things with software for a living for 30 years
>for a living
>for 30 years
H-how old are you?

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>how do you take a cold shower without giving yourself a heart attack?

Start of with water warm enough to don't get you unbearable frostbite, then go gradually lower each time, or lower the temp after you get used to current temp mid shower

You start with cool shower and gradually progress to full cold over a single week.
It'll feel like shit for another week or so, then you get used to it and it starts giving you a feeling similar to that post workout "this shit sucked but now I'm done".

And why would you want that? Long warm showers are enjoyable, no point in torturing yourself

>It'll feel like shit for another week or so, then you get used to it and it starts giving you a feeling similar to that post workout "this shit sucked but now I'm done".
why the fuck would anyone subject themselves to that?

render those extra polygons for cgi hentai

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Because wage slavers require the minions to be on time.

warm showers make you sleepy and relaxed.
cold showers are also enjoyable after you get used to them, they are addicting. They are good midday to sharpen your senses and boost your self control, and cognitive functions

It lasts longer than the shower itself.
Warming up from a cold shower feels good and once you get used enough to the cold showers themselves, they don't feel that bad.

The math checks out.

>sharpen your senses and boost your self control, and cognitive functions
hot showers do that, although maybe not the "self control" part, I think you're just a masochist to be honest

>once you get used enough to the cold showers themselves, they don't feel that bad.
again, you can just take a hot shower that feels good, so why are you subjecting yourself to something unpleasant for no reason?

Thanks for input NPCs

Because a hot shower will take a longer time, leave you sleepy, make you feel like shit once you cool down if your house is cold, not give you that willpower boost in the long term.
Hot showers will give you hedonist treadmill fast, cold showers will not, and also won't prevent you from taking a hot shower when you feel like shit and need something easier.

It doesn't look that good on paper, but it works out in the end.
If you're a wagie, that is. A NEET may not benefit since NEETs don't need to wake up.

>leave you sleepy, make you feel like shit once you cool down if your house is cold, not give you that willpower boost in the long term.
that's literally the opposite of the truth
I take a hot shower every midday after I've done my morning work to energize myself for the afternoon
you're just a masochist

user, it honestly sounds like your biggest problem is your entire mindset to life.
Basing your sense of self worth on your achievements will always lead to complete misery because while "I'll like myself more if I'm a good programmer" sounds like a healthy goal at face value, the hidden presumption is that "I don't like myself at the moment" which you'll keep reinforcing to yourself every day. If you go on like that you're never going to think that you're "good enough", you're just going to be constantly reinforcing your self hate.

You need to try and seek happiness by being comfortable with who you are. Self improvement and learning new skills obviously isn't bad if you're doing it out of passion, but doing either to gain some sense of self worth is completely toxic.

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That's some nice broscience right there brah

That being said, let me break your post down on a technical level:
>I tried learning it but whenever I need something to work, it requires going down a rabbit hole for 6-7 hours to solve one single issue.
Yes, it's slow at the start. But once you're 4ish years in something magical happens and you find that with all the concepts you've learned and with all the experience you've gained everything seems familiar and you can pick up new libraries and even new languages with no effort at all. Everyone starts out completely confused and having to spend 6 hours figuring out how to get a library working, but keep going. In no time at all you'll be finding libraries and having them working in a couple of minutes.

>nobody will give a shit about what you built
Again, this is a bad mindset as explained in the first part of my post. But if you really think this you need to either get a job, or work on some public projects like open source tools, hosting a modded gameserver, releasing addons for popular software etc.
"What I'm doing is worthless because someone, somewhere can do it better" is a completely retarded mindset anyway, you should program because you enjoy programming, and because you can make things that are useful to other people. Do you think your mom should stop cooking because Gordon Ramsey can cook better? Do you think some guy who enjoys fishing should stop because there's thousands of people better than him?

If you never become a top tier programmer it doesn't fucking matter, program because you enjoy it, and if you don't enjoy it then stop programming.

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Just experience

yes I'm seriously considering it but it's basically my first job and I've only been at it for about 3 years. Gotta find a new job soon and see if it's the same shit, maybe try to get out of webshit

How accurate this post.
Saving this to make a pasta from it

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kek

It's helped someone who grew up with an unstructured, spontaneous and often irrational and self-sabotaging thought process into a more logial and rational thinker. Now at my (STEM) workplace I realise how little logical thinking people actually do, and how easy the job is with a little bit of thought. I can imagine it being horrible if you are surrounded by people with programmer mindsets and being constantly reminded of how much of a brainlet you are though.

I've tried to teach myself basic help desk shit, but found it to be boring. I then tried to teach myself web dev. At first I found it to be interesting, but then I just felt overwhelmed and ended up quitting.

How do I stop getting depressed and continue working through difficult problems I face? I've been told that the tech industry is the only fiel you can into w/o a degree. I've been a wage slave McCuck worker for 6 years now and I want to get out.

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not the person you replied to, but thanks!

look at what you are generally interested in or a task for your current job. is there an annoying thing you have to do with multiple files every week? ever thought about automating it (python & other options)? maybe you could build a database (look into SQL for instance) for accessing data quicker.
i've been there and the main issue i had was that i had no projects i wanted to work on. don't get caught up with being "passionate" about what you are doing, but be passionate about the problem you are trying to solve if that makes sense.
tl;dr - find solutions to problems you have with code, and use those as projects to learn and guide you

thanks my dude. saving this for when i feel the downs.

at which point in learning webdev you gave up?

>What is programming for you?
salvation, like literally.

>be me, hopeless
>19 years old completely lost about life
>had no money, no friends, no hope, nothing
>got into college at 21
>got webdev job
>now i have money, friends, hope, dreams
>still no gf tho but you can't have everything

I've thought about learn python mainly because people told me it's an easy language to learn for first timers. I guess my problem is that I feel like I will never be able to land a job. When I watch interviews or even look at the web dev/programming threads on here, I feel like such a brainlet. I feel like there's no point in learning because I will never understand what any of you guys are talking about. I know it's dumb, but I think that's the main reason why I ten to quit so often.

CSS was a little confusing, but once I started to get into JS, that's when I felt like web dev wasn't for me. I mean if I can't even understand css and JS, I probably won't understand any of the back end web dev stuff.

>it made me take cold shower
Can anyone explain this meme to me?

>well-tried contrast water baths must be Internet trolling

Basically it revives the spirit and is good for your circulatory system. It makes the skin shinier too. People with a rather weak or stressed heart, especially for the first times, are advised to start slow and be careful.

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Might as well ask you brother: I'm learning stuff and i believe i can make it work but in the meantime i'm a worthless neet. I'm mostly okay with myself but when i think about the parts of me that are still "no there" I don't like them and partly blame them. It's not severe but it's there. How do i like these parts? It's true that they are doing their best but at the moment it's just not enough and i put the weight of my whole existence on them. I know that self hate doesn't work because i simply don't work harder or focus better when being harsh on myself but at the same time I can't let my parts that are still "not there" simply be because I put up too much stakes on them. thanks

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging and wanting to improve your weaknesses, you just shouldn't let them dictate your self worth.

>"My life is ok at the moment but I think I would really enjoy being able to work as a programmer, maybe if I keep working on projects I'll be skilled enough to apply for an entry level job sometime soon"
Healthy

>"I'm a worthless waste of space and everyone hates me, maybe if I started programming and got really good at it people would respect me and then I would finally have some self worth"
Unhealthy

I hope that makes sense. Programming should be something you enjoy and has the potential to open up opportunities for you but it shouldn't influence your self worth. If you have the mindset of "I need to be a good programmer before I'll respect myself" then you're just going to live in constant unhappiness and self hate because you're just going to end up pushing the bar of what a "good programmer" is higher and higher. You're probably never going to be as good as a programmer as John Carmack but that doesn't fucking matter, no job or person will ever expect you to be.

>it revives the spirit
Way to make it immediately clear that this is nonsense.
>good for your circulatory system. It makes the skin shinier too
Source for both of those?

this

>Le advocate for rationality and enemy of primitive superstition

You can find the source right on my shiny and rosy dick, you fulltime skeptic. For me, it didn't take pages of empirical studies to convince me to try reasonable or good sounding advice for the benefit of my only vessel, because I can differentiate between my inspiring inner voice and thinking mind. But whatever, you're probably just crafting up an excuse for not ending your wimp lifestyle. Go to bed, Richard.

Not at all.
Prime pasta material.

Whew, now I don't feel so much like a brainlet that it took me two years before things started clicking.

>using basic logic and wanting evidence instead of feelings for health-related claims is some kind of meme now
Do humanity a favor and throw yourself off a bridge

a real boomer

Woah

dumb question. How do I know if I like programming or not? Let me explain, I am NEET and fill with apathy every day, I change hobbies constantly (drawing, carpentry, music, plumbing, biking, etc) I want to learn to program to have a profitable skill but I don't want to jump in because I heard that if you don't like it, you will be miserable every time you do it. So, I want to know if there is an indicator when you are liking it or if it is apathy hitting again.

I am not that user but there are 50-something people lurking Jow Forums. It's not that weird.

Were you good at math in school?
You can also just try writing some Python.

not bad but not exceptional. But yeah, I will try with Python. I just configured Emacs for writing, I guess configuring it for programming should be not hard.

Fucking this, I've tried learning programming so many fucking times and I can never get it right. I'm fucking great at computers but whenever I try programming it's like my IQ drops 70 points.
Every single fucking time I've tried programming it's ended in me copy-pasting every single line of code from some stupid fucking guide where someone smarter than me copied that shit from like 20 different stackoverflow threads. Jesus fuck I fucking hate programming.

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I wish it was the same for me, im exactly as you describe yourself, a college dropout and a complete failure, i thought programming would be my thing since i seem to share traits like those but this is not for me i don't like it, it would be great if i did like it because i have time, internet, some money, i could learn but i just don't like it.

not at all, pajeets are literally brainless monkeys and you can just throw most of their code straight into the trash. for personal projects the post might be somewhat right because if you dont invest real time in it or have more than yourself working on it it is most likely shit and small and pajeets will grind away at things and be able to offer more features and stuff.

In business pajeets are not even worth mentioning though atleast not in the automotive industry where I work, all the work that was outsourced to them had such bad quality it was just thrown away and redone by real engineers. the main problem with them is they dont listen and dont really understand basic instructions. and the worst of all they dont ask questions if they dont understand they just do SOMETHING and then deliver that regardless if it is actually what you asked for or not.

but that is only my experience might be different in different sectors.

>I change hobbies constantly
I do this too, but I'm not a NEET. I think the ability to be able to pick up a bunch of hobbies is just an autistic trait.

I personally picked programming because it's the most "logical" and "grounded" skill that I have out of all of them. By that I mean that it's not reliant on subjectivity or creativity.
I feel like I could have just as easily become a professional photographer, concept artist or musician, but I wouldn't feel comfortable doing a job where the quality of my work is entirely subjective and relies on me constantly staying "creative", which is completely out of my control.

When you're a programmer you don't need to worry about having a creative block because all your work is given to you in a sepc, and you're not trying to please anyone's subjective opinion. If you create a piece of artwork or produce a song that you think is good, but other people don't like it then you're fucked, you can't change subjective opinion. However the same can never happen with a program. You can objectively prove that your code is good code, by showing that it meets the spec, that is runs fast, that it follows good practice etc.

This is all entirely personal and might sound like dumb reasoning to you, but it's how I decided to go into software development. It just seems like the most "robust" profession to go in to.

I'd much rather do that as a job and leave subjective interests as hobbies, where I'm free to create whatever I want without worrying about if other people are going to like what I make.

Webdev has too many moving parts for a beginner, too many elements and different shit you have to know about imo.

I would highly suggest learning python and do a bunch of smaller projects with it that are actually usefull. you can automate almost anything you do in python, start by scraping some data from the web on one of your favorite websites and putting that into an excel file or some shit or display it in a GUI. Instant results and it is usefull to you.

Learn Python, like I said first simple projects. Then learn basic OOP and move to not writing your code in one file but using classes and importing them in other files. From here you can go so many ways, if you want to be fast you can try wrapping a C DLL or if you want to do more complex things machine learning would be an option.

And the best thing about it for you ? If you are good at Python it still contributed to your journey as a webdev since you can just use it to build backends in Python. But the main thing is to git gud at one programming language, afterwards every other language is easy to learn if you REALLY understood the concepts. Hope it helps user, and if you need motivation think about why you are doing this, you dont want to work at McCuck in a years time do you ? Then get coding...

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>think the ability to be able to pick up a bunch of hobbies is just an autistic trait.
well, I pick up a lot of hobbies but that doesn't mean I become good at them or at least acceptable. It was/is a bad trait I had since my teenage days. Being a NEET is just one more stone to drag.

not that user but you most likely just have low willpower then. you like the idea of getting good at a certain skill but as soon as the first real problem arises and it becomes a drag you likely drop it and go for something else. you just have to push yourself through that point and you can get good at it - but whatever you learn it has a certain point where progression seems to slow down to a crawl and suck the motivation out of it.

>I'm fucking great at computers but whenever I try programming it's like my IQ drops 70 points.

dude, technology is a fucking huge field. Programming is just one more area of it. Just take an example from Linus Torvalds, the motherfucker creator of the Linux kernel, a C good, a turbo autist that use a piece of shit editor from the 90 to program the kernel of one of the most successful server OS on earth. And he cannot into hardware. He even said it, he is bad at maintaining and configuring hardware.

If you can build a gamer PC from scratch piece by piece, you already better than Linus at hardware. If you want to compare to him on software development on C, yeah, he is going to kick your ass.

tl;dr: IT is huge, learn to specialize or be a a jack of all trades (not many people can do this)

yeah, I guess you are right. I think I will try learning programming and keep pushing it. Even if I just become acceptable at it, it's a good skill for scripting or customizing stuff.

>And he cannot into hardware. He even said it, he is bad at maintaining and configuring hardware.
That's because he doesn't give a shit
Hardware isn't a skill, it's rote knowledge, that's the type of thing intelligent people don't care about

It helps that you were ok at math. You dont need much math but the way of thinking is similar.

Also, two other things that make programming a great field:

>Teamworking
I've never worked in another field but I imagine most other office jobs must be quite isolating because everyone is just chugging away at their own separate work. Programming is fun because you're constantly working with other people's code and all working towards the same goal.

>You use programs to build programs
I don't think there's many other fields where the thing you're creating is also the tool you use to create it. It makes it quite a chad tier profession because if there's not a good tool for the job you can just say fuck it and make your own. With any other computer-based profession (3D modelling, video editing etc.) you have no choice but to be forced into using stuff that other people have made.

kek, tell that to network engineers who design and implement a full network with servers and over 100 clients with cloud services and routers.

Yeah, good luck building that.

>3D modelling, video editing etc.
>using stuff that other people have made.

well, there are some artist that know programming (or programmers that learn some kind of art) who create their own tools and plugins.

an extreme example doesn't disprove a generalization