Big game studio using Rust

It doesn't really have good C's performances (it's Java-like performance wise), let alone Assembly's, but it's evangelists like to shit on assembly, C/C++ and really knowing the hardware in general as an avoidable garbage pile that no one will need in their post-Rust world. The truth is, you can even use Rust, but it's no silver bullet that saves you from doing appropriate computer science studies and learning how the machine works on a lower level. Also Rust is basically a higher level interface for C (rust compiler makes C code that's then compiled by GCC).

>God of War is a nieche game, yes I know there was a new one recently but without it no one would even remember God of War anymore.
Well, GoW 3 was like the game Sony betted on the most when it came out, and the PS2/PSP chapters were flagship titles and bestsellers on their consoles as well. I wouldn't call it a niche saga, even before the soft reboot.

>Just a medium sized game studio that rarely does anything and it's latest titles haven't exactly been welcomed with open arms.
Their latest titles, yeah, haven't been exactly welcomed well, but it's an AAA studio even just for the money Sony puts on them and their productions.

yes I think it is main reason why games don't have soul anymore

Hey hey, don't talk shit about my man Pessino! Me and my gamedev school mates attended a conference where he talked some time ago and now he's our hero, he's a complete badass being an awesome programmer and so buff a bodybuilder at his age! I still haven't learned Rust so I don't know if it's good, but I'd say a guy like him with years of experience probably knows his shit if he chose to use it over C++.

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I guess the performance difference is a fair point, but there are a lot worse offenders in that category, and it could be a decent trade-off if it provides an environment where it's easier to write good code.
If some people claim that you won't need an understanding of how the hardware works, that's just plain wrong, but I don't really see how it has anything to do with the language itself

its like when clickbait sites refer to occasional instagram memes as "internet sensations", or how every book seems to be a new york times bestseller. the sense of scale is a little off these days

I don't have much against the language itself (I think even Java can be good if you use it where it's appropriate, even in some light gamedev, and with knowledge of how shit works on lower levels). The thing is, if you see Rust marketing campaigns, if you talk to enthusiastic people in the Rust community, most of them don't come from CS backgrounds, they're, like, literature students who became developers because they'd have more jobs, and like to talk shit on all the really complicated CS stuff they don't understand because they never really committed to it. You'll see stuff like "Rust made system programming available to everyone", which is BS because 1. Just learn C, it ain't that hard 2. Even if the programming interfaces are simpler, one who's not deep enough into low level shouldn't do system programming at all or he risks to make a mess.

It's not rust, it's the culture of offering people fake silver bullets which it's community enforces.

I'd work on the pecs a little more if I were him. Nice shape anyway

GoW 3 is like one of the titles Sony put most money on in PS3 days

They just do not aware about Godot.

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Is it any good?

>gamedevs
>literally the bottom tier of programmers
oh wow, no wonder they'd choose to use rust.

Literally thousands of companies have announced they were switching to Rust, only to follow it up with a "never mind" once they'd had their shit kicked in by the borrow checker. This one will be no different.
The only good thing to come out of Rust is this video
youtube.com/watch?v=n-txrCMvdms

>this entire thread
Holy fucking seething

I literally never heard of GoW before this thread

>big
Is this bait?

>It doesn't really have good C's performances (it's Java-like performance wise)
Where are the numbers?

>shit kicked in by the borrow checker
Pretty much this. There aren't enough programmers who can actually write Rust.

That said Cargo is awesome and makes using external libraries a lot easier than with C/C++ reducing the time spend programming in a different way.

How's Redox OS coming along? Is it usable yet?

You can get it running on actual hardware but that about it.

>>God of war
>>niche

These are the people giving advice on Jow Forums

Feels good I decided to learn a good language for once.

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Literally every game used "premade" engine and library after we started using at least real 2D graphics. Do you think that Sierra adventure games were made from scratch again and again?
Granted the engines were mostly in-house, but the recycling was much more obvious than it is now. The first three Resident Evil games were literally the same with just different scenarios and handful new backgrounds.

You are so blinded by nostalgia that it hurts.

Games don't have souls because they are really expensive to make, requiring lots of coordination and lots of consensus among the developers, thus not giving room for a visionary.

Basically like hollywood movies. If you like dumb fun, they're good for it, but not really the artistic outlet.

>Cargo is awesome
No, Cargo is a blight
Read drewdevault.com/2019/03/25/Rust-is-not-a-good-C-replacement.html

>It doesn't really have good C's performances
lmao bullshit

Garbage-collected languages can never have the same performance as systems languages

I'm curious. What made you post so much false and opinionated shit without knowing one thing about Rust?

>Drew DeVault
news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19482789
>Edit: found the hostility. Fine, I won't issue a correction. I didn't find Steve's arguments entirely correct and I was willing to add a note to the page letting him share his perspective so the reader could make up their mind. Now I'm less open to that.
He sounds like he has assburgers.

he does
but i respect him

rust is not garbage collected retard

>no. game devs are the worst because
>>not using assembly
>>using premade engines
>>using premade libraries

Actually I had an idea once:
Let every gamedev just do their own linux distro / windows wrapper / own standalone system with only their game and maybe a communicator.
Let them sell it on certified 2-bank USB drives (ro for game code, rw for encrypted patches and saves)
This would solve:
Piracy - no way to crack files;
Performance issues - only game running, less services in background, more direct hardware access and no security issues;
Ban bypassing - game has access to all hardware IDs, every cheater would have to buy a new game.

There is only one problem - they would have to write quarter the game anew for every GPU, every CPU architecture, a whole lot of controllers, sound system, etc.
How do you think, why did every game from the 90s has only a certain list of graphic cards to choose from, a dozen or so sound cards and I just realised you were probably ironic, weren't you?

You're crazy, it definitely is. They harp on and on about concurrency and "safety" and there's no way to have both without GC.

based DeVault BTFOs Rustfags
Reminder that Rust is garbage for anything other than small libraries where security is critical.

doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch04-01-what-is-ownership.html

Ownership is what makes Rust unique.

Adding security is a job for ADA and SPARK, not RUST.

I'm not reading all that. I know what the goddamn stack and heap are already and how scope works.

>It doesn't really have good C's performance (it's Java-like performance-wise)
In nearly all benchmarks it's basically dead even with C++, with one or the other sometimes coming out on top depending on how idiomatic the Rust code is

That was ONE benchmark and they mixed up the numbers with a totally different benchmark so it wasn't even valid.

This

*Making* a game isn't the expensive part. There are even developers who specialize in quick & cheap like From or Platinum. The expensive part is everything that isn't related to the actual game: 500 million to poster your game's boxart on the side of a building; a similar number to hire a celebrity midget as a VA whose lines get removed anyway; yet more for an original Paul McCartney song. Hollywood's tentpole system- known in this industry as the AAA model- solidified its hold a little over a decade ago, because the invisible hand of the free market makes ever not shooting for the most profitable possible despite the risks untenable.

They switched from using a spade to dig a hole to a shovel — why the fuck do you care? You aren't on the development team.

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Weird, I've never seen anyone complain about the borrow checker and that being the reason for people switching back. The number one reason I've seen is that the language is just immature and they don't have time to give Rust a chance. Most libraries on crates.io are pre 1.0 so sticking to C++ where everything is more developed and tested just makes more sense. Switching to Rust means rewriting so much from scratch when you're working on big projects like game developing, and most people are not quite ready for that.

Imagine being this stupid

Well then the important takeaway is that Rust accomplishes its memory safety and concurrency guarantees through compile-time guarantees; i.e. through more onerous rules around how you write programs.

>hey guys this is me virtue signalling
>look at me
>look
>thanks girl (male)
>buy my game

BTFO

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While it's true that everything on social media is virtue signalling, not every message composes a discrete intent to exploit that fact. Intentionally.

what part of that was in any way virtue signaling? If you're referring to Rust's COC (which that tweet made zero mention of), consider that that only even applies to the Rust project itself. it should come as no surprise that a studio would want to use a language which prevents memory leaks or runtime errors.

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You think the PSP GoW games were the best?

You obviously don't play video games

Post based vidya made by REAL software engineers.

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Does this guy post here?
He should.

Why does he look like a Vin Diesel cosplayer?

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>wanting guaranteed safety from memory leaks and runtime fuckery as well as easy concurrency is virtue signaling

We need less elegant and less safe solutions desu
All this new age bullshit is the samr

We should go back to Fortran-style lexing rules where spaces are ignored inside i d e n t i f i e r s

based and tranpilled

>Not GOAL
Lol whatever

>C++ dev likes Rust->::sp._^
Shocking!

idk if im more triggered by the posts in this thread or the tweet in the op

working in the games industry sucks everyone triggers u.

>tfw I have the privilege of programming in fortran on flight critical hardware

Doesn't Fortran do bounds checking

Elegance is a good thing, and a quality of good languages (i.e. C, Lisp). Rust is a meme because it's extremely inelegant and melts your brain.
Game devs like it because they all use sepples and don't know better.

Isn't rust one of those SJW languages?

Rust is the archetypal SJW language. Its creator, Steve Crabmeat, ran for president on a campaign of human extinction to protect the environment.

Name 1 language that isn't these days.

It also makes Rust have decade long compile times.

Emacs Lisp?

r u rtarded? fsf is og sjw

Wake me up when there is a post-mortem

Only someone who has tortured himself with C++ for ages would unironically call Rust elegant.

Rust does not compile to C code.

It does.
github.com/thepowersgang/mrustc

>"Alternative rust compiler"
Last time I checked rust is compiled to LLVM

>PSP God of War games are the best
>The Order, a massive flop, is a technical wonder
>Deformers, a larger flop then The Order because of no marketing
>Best "game" is a port of Okami from PS2 to wii

sounds super duper autistic

>there's no way to have both without GC
Uhh, sorry to bust your bubble but i verified a lockfree library written in C few years ago. Maybe before talking, learn about the subject matter first?
Best regards
/slayergirlxx

no, making the game is the expensive part, you're an idiot

well that was enough to convince me never to try Rust, sounds absolutely retarded

>wanting your game to run like shit while heralding the use of rust as the second coming of christ isn't virtue signaling
alright then

alright what are your favorite games

IronRust When?

Yes, memory safety is retarded.

It's retarded when it's beginning to be the main focus of a programming language, instead of focusing on making programming fun and actually reflecting the intent of the programmer better. First, I wanna use gauge my eyes out when I see Rust code. Second, its convoluted syntax and the impression of safety it gives will actually make bad programmers even less careful about their program logic. A bugged program because of careless memory management is bad, but can be salvageable with good care. An inaccurate program is just worthless. Rust cannot do anything about these and I think it makes the problem even worse.

tl,dr: Safe languages make you less careful and you write more bugs?

Rust is a worst version of Ada witha misguided direction and a tranny dev team that can't get their shit together.

Compilers write much better assembly than humans, writing your own engine is a huge waste of resources with no performance guarantees, premade libraries are usually made by professionals

Then why is asmfish daster than stockfish?