Laptops manufactured after 2011 don't need power buttons. They are completely unnecessary and serve no purpose today

Laptops manufactured after 2011 don't need power buttons. They are completely unnecessary and serve no purpose today.
Prove me wrong.

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What if I want to turn the laptop off?

- Power the computer on by either opening the lid, touching any random key or touching the trackpad.
- Put it to sleep by either clicking "Sleep" or closing the lid.
- Turn the computer off by clicking "Power down" or whatever the OS equivalent is.
- Forcing the computer to shut off can be relegated to a keyboard shortcut.

how are you gonna turn the computer off you fucking genius? Wait for the OS to boot? What if it doesn't? Checkmate.

>Forcing the computer to shut off can be relegated to a keyboard shortcut.
gee isn't that a bit like a power button

Having to click shut down or press a keyboard shortcut is slower and more cumbersome than just pressing the power button though

What if my laptop tilts?

What if the OS is unresponsive and it cannot interpret the keyboard shortcut?

>- Forcing the computer to shut off can be relegated to a keyboard shortcut.
sounds like a power button to me
if you wanna hide it under a FN key just say it

But most laptops, including Chromebooks, MacBooks and most Windows laptops, don't shut down immediately when you press the power button anyway. So what's the point of even having a power button?

The shortcut could be implemented at a master level, sandboxed away from the rest of the OS. It's been done before, and it works shockingly well.

>he doesn't know that every ACPI-compliant PC immediately powers of in 5-10 seconds if the button is held

wew lad

Post examples.

Holding a button for 5-10 seconds is in no way faster or more convenient than just having the computer shut down immediately after you click "Shut down."

Redundancy.
What happens when you accidentally submerge your brand new MacBook into some water? You can't disconnect battery your only hope is to turn it off asap

sleeping and hibernation are really shit replacements for actually turning your computer off

key combination hardwired do reset, just like in Commodore Amiga

what kind of autistic shit is Jow Forums complaining about now

What if there's no "shut down" button to click because the OS cannot boot? Then you're fucked and you have to sit there like a retard and wait for the battery to die because your dumb shit laptop doesn't have a physical power button.

No one said anything about eliminating the process of shutting off the computer entirely.
Just that the button itself can go and no one would care because very few people actually use the button anymore.

The same applies to laptops whose power button is a part of the keyboard and not a hardware button, but no one complains about that. The button could go and a parent hotkey could replace it.

What is the point if fixing something that ain't broke?

I would care, I use that button all the time. I set it to put laptops to sleep when it's unplugged and set it to shut down when it's plugged in. That way I can make it so it doesn't go to sleep when the lid is closed, just turns the screen off.
I also use it for system diagnostics, as one of the few tried-and-true ways to get Win10's recovery system to respond from any PC is manually restarting the computer 3 times in a row before Windows loads, which could only be accomplished with a physical power button.

What if you can't turn your laptop on anyway because the power button is broken?

Have you ever had a laptop with one of those kinds of power buttons? They look like keys but they act just like any old hardware power button. They respond even if the OS has not loaded. I don't think you have any idea how inconvenient what you're suggesting is, as you seem to have a fairly warped idea of what "people" think about hardware power buttons. I work tech support. If there wasn't a physical power button on shit like this, people would lose their god damned minds.

Just because it's not "broken" doesn't mean it can't be improved.

>I set it to put laptops to sleep when it's unplugged and set it to shut down when it's plugged in. That way I can make it so it doesn't go to sleep when the lid is closed, just turns the screen off.
Workarounds could very obviously be implemented for that sort of thing.
>which could only be accomplished with a physical power button.
A lot of Windows laptops, and laptops in general, don't even have physical power buttons anymore. Just power keys.

so what happens when you install an operating system that doesn't have drivers for all that? what happens when your computer freezes? FUCK you.

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>Have you ever had a laptop with one of those kinds of power buttons?
Yes.
>They look like keys but they act just like any old hardware power button. They respond even if the OS has not loaded.
If you can do that with a circuit-disconnected key, you can remove that key entirely and do it with a key combo. The overall user experience wouldn't be much different.

what if you came up with an even more ridiculous scenario that made even less sense

>hurr wut if power button no werk uhuhuhu
fucking buy a new computer and stop destroying your things you simpleton

>A lot of Windows laptops, and laptops in general, don't even have physical power buttons anymore. Just power keys.
That key _is_ a physical power button. It isn't just a random keyboard key with a fucking ON/OFF symbol on it.

The combo would work the same way, as a sort of 'safety' release. It's a force-shutdown option.
Alternatively, removable batteries.

>instead of pressing one key you should have to press TWO KEYS

are you mentally ill

The idea is that you wouldn't have to press those multiple keys every single time you want to shut your computer off. Only in the event of an emergency, when all else fails.

There is already a function for that it's called holding the power button down for 5 seconds. All the things you're suggesting are already things that exist, you are just making it more complicated by requiring a fucking function key to be held

The first thing I do when I get a laptop is set the power button to shut down.

yes but as it is now you only have to press one key for both a soft and hard shutdown, and merely the way you press that key determines its function. No dumb function key bullshit that will be different between manufacturers.

You need to turn on the laptop.

I use the button to open my menu in tablet mode. So nope, I still use that shit.
Also you need that for shtf scenarios, a keyboard shortcut won't do or would be cumbersome to implement.

You can do that without a power button.
Just open the lid. Now you don't have to even press any buttons at all. One full step eliminated.

You just take out the battery. Oh wait...

You're just implementing abstractions over a power button.
You can do the same for a lot of other things. Why have function keys? We can just have a modifier key and use the number keys.
Why have three rows of letter keys? Just add a couple of modifier keys instead.
Just because we CAN do something, doesn't mean we should, or that there is any real benefit to be found in it.

>holding the power button down for 5 seconds.
Slower than holding a key combo for an even shorter amount of time.

>Why have function keys? We can just have a modifier key and use the number keys.
Unironically a good idea.
>Why have three rows of letter keys? Just add a couple of modifier keys instead.
Doing so would severely cripple the user experience. Eliminating the power button would not.

That sounds fucking annoying. What if I want to open my laptop WITHOUT turning it on? Say, to clean it? Or to open it up?

>Slower than holding a key combo for an even shorter amount of time.
The point of the delay is to ensure that you're wanting the forced shutdown, not accidentally activating it.
Having a key combo that could be accidentally hit that'll do it immediately defeats the purpose. They could just do the same with the power button and then its faster because you don't have to hit a combination of keys.

Stop being retarded.

>What if I want to open my laptop WITHOUT turning it on?
Computers have reached a point where the vast majority of laptops, even lowest-end garbage ones, boot up in 5 seconds and shut down in less than that.
So, open the laptop, wait until it turns on, then turn it back off and do what you will. It's not that big of an inconvenience. There are lots of laptops that boot up automatically when you open the lid and no one complains about it. Most people don't even turn their laptops off at all, they just keep them on indefinitely.

>accidentally press the shortcut
>your whole computer fucking shuts down
>can't de active or change the shortcut to something else

>Having a key combo that could be accidentally hit that'll do it immediately defeats the purpose.
But you could absolutely choose a combination that is highly unlikely or even impossible to activate accidentally.

no way in heck am I popping the battery out just to end the opensuse installer when it hangs

You could introduce intentional lag that saves the user from instantly shutting the computer whenever they hit the combo accidentally. But since it's a hotkey, that lag can be way shorter than the one implemented for a hard-shutdown via a power button.
Instead of holding the single button for 8 seconds, you could hold the combo for 1 second so that it's only activated when it's deliberate, but not accidentally touched.

>wasting battery life booting up and shutting down constantly

You neglected the possibility to change the keyboard shortcut. I bet it would be tesious as hell if it was anything similar to an already existing/custom keyboard shortcut.

>oh no, I accidentally pressed both ctrl keys, both alt keys and Enter all simultaneously
said no one ever

OP you seem like the type of guy who was behind the idea of automatic motion controlled public bathroom sinks / toilet / paper towel dispensers.

You're trying to make a solution to something that wasn't a problem for anyone, and has multiple ways for it to go wrong and inconvenience people even worse than leaving it alone.

The amount of energy used for that minor interaction is negligible.

>You neglected the possibility to change the keyboard shortcut.
That feature would be restricted, and for good reason. The specific keys that comprise that shortcut were chosen for a reason. The ability to rearrange them at will would defeat the purpose.

>designing a product that can't be used by someone who lost fingers
Screw accessibility am I right?

>booting up doesn't take much energy
Retard.
>you're stuck with a shit keyboard shortcut that the user can't use in the OS anymore

>The amount of energy used for that minor interaction is negligible.
it absolutely is not. The startup phase is the most inefficient part of a computer's operation, as it basically runs fill tilt until the power management of the OS takes over.

>automatic motion controlled public bathroom sinks / toilet / paper towel dispensers.
Those are actually getting a lot better nowadays.
They solve the issue of having to touch a knob that everyone's been touching and hasn't been cleaned, defeating the purpose of washing your hands in the first place because the first thing you're going to do after you're done is re-contaminate your hands.
>You're trying to make a solution to something that wasn't a problem for anyone
First off, motion sensors in public bathrooms do solve a problem. Secondly, not every improvement always needs to be about solving an issue. It's a philosophical thing. It's about removing absolutely everything that isn't 100% necessary.
If everything we did was just based on solving a problem, technology would stagnate once it became "good enough."

>t. Apple "engineer"

Tell that to smartphone manufacturers.

>we designed this wood saw with one button less! To make it stop you have to press the start sawing button and the insert wooden log button at the same time for ten seconds! It's so EFFICIENT!

0/10 shit analogy.

You said what retard?

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None of those features help the blind, or people who've lost fingers. Reachability doesn't really do anything if you haven't thumbs.

good luck poking at a screen if you can't even see what's going on. buttons are much better for blind people because you can memorize sequences to get places

>keyboard shortcuts are ableist!

Holy fuck you guys are retards.
>What is VoiceOver
>What is Assistive Touch
>What is Touch Accommodations

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Cont

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What if you've lost both thumbs and one hand?

>itoddler
opinion immediately discarded

It's one thing to include keyboard shortcuts to improve efficiency for power users, its another thing to require them.

Switch Control allows you to use Bluetooth enabled buttons buttons like the ones you can attach to that Xbox Controller for retards.

that's ableism. you're giving the upper hand to people who have all their fingers.
fucking white men i swear

What on earth do you gain by not having a power button?

Nothing, but no one uses it and it has no real reason to remain. If you can design a system which excludes it without destroying the experience, which you can, do so.

>what is a forced shutdown?

You can do that without a power button.

>no one uses it
What makes you think that?

>I'm too lazy to press two buttons, but I can press one just fine
Fucking zoomers, I swear.

>Entire thread calling your idea retarded
>no one uses it

You haven't been able to come up with a design that eliminates all those flaws that are brought up, so you shouldn't remove it, elitist fag.

Jow Forums isn't exactly an accurate representation of what's popular among userbases

>no one uses it

I'm confused. It's the power button. You use it to turn on the device. If I'm not going to use a laptop for a while, I will naturally turn it off instead of just putting it in sleep mode, and then I need a way to turn it on again. Are you suggesting that nobody ever turns a laptop off anymore and it should just alway be on all the time as long as there is battery life on it?

A suggestion was that it automatically boots up the laptop when you open the lid like the newest MacBooks, but even those machines come with a power button for good reasons that this one sperg fails to understand.

>Are you suggesting that nobody ever turns a laptop off anymore and it should just alway be on all the time as long as there is battery life on it?
No, however I have noticed that a lot of people don't bother booting their computers down anymore. They just leave it on sleep when not in use.
I'm saying that there are other ways to turn a computer on an off, and people tend to use those methods in place of the power button. Again, most laptops automatically activate when opened, and you can very easily shut a laptop off by clicking an icon that's just sitting on the lockscreen or in a menu somewhere. Because of these things, people rarely ever actually use the power button for those purposes.
If anything, the power button is basically just an escape hatch, and that functionality can be moved elsewhere so that the power button can be removed entirely.

no

I mean it sounds like a good idea in theory, but that sort of construction would be less reliable. It could either fail to ever turn on, or even get the idea that the lid is open even when closed, and then you might not even realize it's actually on.

So much simpler to just have a button. Especially since there are going to be dozens of them on there anyways. How much could it cost to just have one more?

>But you could absolutely choose a combination that is highly unlikely or even impossible to activate accidentally.
And someone would still activate it accidentally.

Pull out the battery.
continue

>a lot of people don't bother booting their computers down anymore

Well, I do. So can you explain to me what you, as someone who doesn't want the power button, loses because it is there? Is it not aesthetically pleasing to you? Are you bitter about the 2 cents extra you have to pay for your computer because it has that one extra button? Because even if "a lot of people" don't need it, there's still clearly at least some people around who use it, so there has to be something to gain by removing it. Otherwise you might as well keep it around for those people who use it.

Just buy a new device

if you want a laptop with less keys, just get a tablet
it's bad enough plenty of laptops have no dedicated keys for page up/down, home/end, insert, and the like
there's no need to be so stingy about what keys to include on 13"+ laptops

Go back to bed, Tim Cook, it's not even 5 in the morning in California.

Sorry sir, you seem to have dropped this
>™

>Well, I do.
Good for you.
>So can you explain to me what you, as someone who doesn't want the power button, loses because it is there?
Again, this isn't about solving or creating problems. I've already explained this. I don't lose anything from its presence, but that's not the only factor to coonsider in deciding whether or not it should persist.
>Is it not aesthetically pleasing to you?
No.
>Are you bitter about the 2 cents extra you have to pay for your computer because it has that one extra button?
It's not about cost.
>Because even if "a lot of people" don't need it, there's still clearly at least some people around who use it, so there has to be something to gain by removing it. Otherwise you might as well keep it around for those people who use it.
I'm not starting a campaign to illegalize power buttons or anything. I'm just saying, theoretically, you could remove them from most modern laptops and people would be fine with it.

mine is set to hibernate
>cos it's a laptop i picked up for $30 and the battery is totally dead

Even a tablet has a physical shutdown button.

A tablet needs a power button because there's no other form of input outside of the display. The power button also doubles as a sleep/wake key. So the power button on a tablet justifies itself. It's far too important.

>suddenly you can't boot up your Mac in recovery mode, boot manager, target disk mode, etc anymore because your computer is already booted up when you open the lid
What a genius idea, I want to buy MORE devices when my old one breaks!!!