What's the best server OS without SystemD? It seems every major Linux server platform has adopted this retarded shit...

What softwares did you have in mind? Synapse in FreeBSD ports is 3 months old, but you can easily change the makefile in ports to use the latest version (sometimes a 1 line change in my experience)

I like FreeBSD because making everything contained and secure is relatively easy thanks to jails. Gives you some peace of mind when something is compromised, it can't mess up the rest of the system.

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>What softwares did you have in mind? Synapse in FreeBSD ports is 3 months old, but you can easily change the makefile in ports to use the latest version (sometimes a 1 line change in my experience)
That's the greatest concern. I'll consider it. it also seems to be in the NetBSD ports, which was something I was absolutely not expecting.
>I like FreeBSD because making everything contained and secure is relatively easy thanks to jails.
Jails do seem very nice, I will say.
Thank you for your input, user.

also check out Ansible so you don't have to configure this shit by hand again

Alpine Linux

Interesting choice. Care to elaborate?

Void

>posting tech in a desu thread
shiggydiggy desu ~

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Devuan

UFS just werks

>server
>not systemd
you are walking right to the bullet

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Artix or Void

Void isn't much of a Server OS but it's relatively free of breakage, I highly recommend it if you're looking for a BSD-like experience.

Other than that I'm using antiX personally and it's just debian minus SystemD, Devuan is fucked

AntiX
It's basically as easy to use as ubuntu.

Devuan

Learn systemd and it will be "something familiar that works". Everyone uses it.. it's just easier to learn it. It's not that bad.

systemctl stop service
systemctl start service
systemctl reload-or-restart service # after changing config file
systemctl status service

Desu

correct

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FreeBSD

Alpine uses openrc, void uses runit.

Alpine has poor desktop support in their package manager compared to void. Both support musl, and I think alpine is only musl now. Musl is a stricter implementation of C, tends to run faster and leaner, but does not support glibc's hackish interpretation of the ANSI standard so the collection of programs that compile in musl is smaller.

Alpine also uses busybox, which is a single binary system utilities setup. This greatly simplifies and speeds up the system, but makes it less customizable.

Void is a system hackers paradise.

desuOS when?

Gentoo. (unironically)

Here's why:

It's stable, mature, well established and it's got top tier documentation and support.
The stable branch contains multiple maintained package versions for a lot of packages and you're free to use any of them. If it's inconvenient to update some package immediately, you can keep using the older version until you find a suitable time for upgrading said package, while keeping the rest of your system up to date.
Binary distros on the other hand lock you into a single repository snapshot and updating your system while trying to keep using an old package version may break the package.
On Gentoo, you can even mix branches. For example, you can have a stable system and install bleeding edge packages from the testing branch and portage will keep your system consistent. No dependency hells.
You can even have multiple versions of some packages side by side (compilers, libs, etc).
Since it's rolling release, updates are less likely to break shit and on the off chance that something does break, it's easier to find the cause.
Patching is as simple as dropping a diff file in the appropriate directory and reinstalling the package.
Overlays add a ton of packages on top of the default repo and adding and maintaining your own packages is irrefutably easier than on binary distros.
There's also the hardened profile for extra security.

If you were to pick a server OS regardless of systemd, Gentoo would still be your best option in my opinion.
It simply provides all sorts of practical conveniences that other distros don't and it's unironically easier to maintain.
(if you care about security above all else though, you may wanna look at OpenBSD)

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/etc/rc.d/rc.service start
/etc/rc.d/rc.service stop
/etc/rc.d/rc.service restart

>use tons of cpu on every package upgrade for no reason
sounds like a great server os

clover?

Gentoo's build-from-source method of package menagement inherently requires a compiler to be embedded in the base system, giving outside threats a completely new attack vector to exploit server systems.

>use tons of cpu on every package upgrade
It's not like you're gonna be compiling some bloated GUI shit with a ton of dependencies on a server.
The compile times for most of your packages would be pretty much insignificant even on really bad hardware.
Your average update shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes if you update once a week or two.
Just set the Portage niceness to 19 so the rest of your processes keep running smoothly during updates.
You can use a different machine as your build host if your use case demands it.
>for no reason
Did you even read my post?

>Gentoo's build-from-source method of package menagement inherently requires a compiler to be embedded in the base system
Sure, but Gentoo has an unpack-and-install-binary method of package management as well.
You can remove GCC and use a different machine as your build host if you want.
>giving outside threats a completely new attack vector to exploit server systems
Someone should tell Theo to remove the compiler from the OpenBSD base system then.

Underrated post

>Devuan is fucked
why ? I just downloaded the iso and I don't want to install a fucked distro

SystemD + PulseAudio suck, BUT firefox, chromium and other stuff depend HEAVILY on pulseaudio.
So to avoid all potteryware either go the hard route (best with gentoo, no meme) and install overlays everytime those browser and other PA dependent software gets upgraded
or
go OpenBSD, since FreeBSD sux with its CoC and its code quality goes to shit sadly.

I have had 0 complaints running FreeBSD for years. Every question I ever had has been answered in the handbook too, if I needed a machine to fit a certain role, I could figure out how to make it fit that role via the handbook.

Someone said they were going to post a guide on how to install Gentoo. Where is it?

d-desu

lfs

>not linux
>familiar

>works

Is BSD cucked like Linux yet?

BSD was always cucked by virtue of its license.

FreeBSD is, OpenBSD literally never will be

What sense is there in judging software based on external factors instead of on its own merit. Pretending like either of those are technically bad because they're social stupid makes no sense and should have no bearing.

Not being able to call the trannies, "niggers" in public may be bad, but it does nothing to my uptime.

using software is supporting developers and by extension helping validating their work-ideology

Thanks man.
>What sense is there in judging software based on external factors
To think that software lives in isolation of the matters surrounding it is to stick your head in the sand, and by doing so, you accept it.
I will not accept software written by developers who are restricted from calling people niggers, or for saying that males have penises.

This
I installed Gentoo for the first time last week, the amount of documentation actually makes it really welcoming to new users and it feels great having full control over my system

Look, I know you can put "engineer" at the end of their title, but let's be real. People who only make changes to markdown documents are not developers and have no technical influence whatsoever.
>I'm the community fungineer and I'm part of the team too!
Come on. This shit hasn't and continues to not have any impact. It's chuffing and nothing more.

The people who would be affected by this are not developers, the people putting these policies in place are also not developers. Developers write code. They not trying to socialize on the issue tracker and mailing list anyway. The only people this effects have 0 influence.
This is not an excuse, it is simply an observation. Social politics is secondary to anyone who cares about actual technical merit, on both ends. Users and developers.

Does the system function? I'm happy.
Does my patch objectively improve something? I'm happy.
vs
>I'm going to direct my attention not at software, but at people. I'm not here to use or improve the software I'm here to talk
Fuck that.

which is the reason why you don't use software from people you say "fuck that" to their work politics

If you're concerned about "work politics" I'm confident you're not a good developer. You should be concerned with the software while everyone argues around you, not fall for such a delinquent social trap. These people likely don't even want power or control, they want attention. Stop giving it to them, it's objectivley a waste of your time as a user and/or developer.
Unless you're 12 years old you have no excuse, this is not a new concept.

Some people give significant value to the ability to speak freely, as is neccessary for the betterment of society.
Some people, sadly, do not.

>Pretending like either of those are technically bad because they're social stupid makes no sense and should have no bearing.
It becomes your problem when the liberals start getting competent devs fired and bullying project maintainers into accepting terrible code based on the author's special snowflake identity.
In practice, though, this only happens to projects that were already total shit.

>These people likely don't even want power or control
you are delusional

>I'm confident you're not a good developer
I'm not a developer

>You should be concerned with the software while everyone argues around you
By your actions, you indicate accptance of being cucked. Fine, be cucked, but don't expect anyone else to be taking this line of inaction.

literally every 21st century init system has this without the bloat

You act as if this somehow effects your ability to speak freely generally when it's obviously locally scoped. Do you honestly feel like we need to have free discussion everywhere? Even before this became trendy people moderated this kind of thing. Issue trackers are not forums, patch mailing lists are not the place to talk about politics, etc.
Nothing prevents you from speaking freely to these people outside of the scope of the project, where discussion belongs anyway. Not everything has to be a social network.

It's so secondary that it's hard to even believe people care about this.

You're naive. Go look at the people pushing this agenda. They are textbook narcissists. They could not care less about what they preach, they just want to feel validated or get some form of attention. The genital mutilation and bright hair should be proof enough of this.

You're confused. You really thing that doing the thing you where already doing is somehow bad while getting roped into the exact thing the other people want is good. And somehow this has to do with cuckolding.
>I want to be a developer but you know what, I should completely change my mind and do this secondary thing that has nothing to do with development
Fucking why. You're making a concisou decision to switch from software to social politics just because someone who has no influence on anything of actual importance wants attention. Stop allowing people to control you, jesus.

>These people likely don't even want power or control, they want attention
let me rephrase the answer I gave earlier: these people want power and control to force others to give them the attention they crave

>Stop allowing people to control you, jesus.
so stop using the control freak's software

>force
The problem is that it's not forced in the slightest. You're making a conscious effort to take it upon yourself to be concerned about it and humor them.
Worse are the people like those I'm responding to ascribing it faux importance.

Case in point Someone adds a text file to a project older than themselves and suddenly it's "their" software. According to whom? You.
By saying things like this YOU undermine the projects and the people who actually build it. By focusing more on the meta text than the software itself YOU are choosing what's actually important and worthy of consideration, and it's not the software. You did this.

>You act as if this somehow effects your ability to speak freely generally when it's obviously locally scoped.
It will when the permanent victims start slandering you: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Rosario#Current_Status
The real world is not fair or rational.

This feels very much in line with > I can't in good conscience continue to put by weight and support (economic and technical) behind them.
He chose this perspective. Why can't you continue? It's not even explained.
Because you feel as though some moral injustice is being imposed? Who even knows the motive besides him.

All you gotta do is to be such a good engineer that even if you say the most "based and redpilled" things they won't think about booting you from the project.

>He chose this perspective. Why can't you continue? It's not even explained.
Because he was literally being slandered and bullied out of his position. It's not rational behavior, it's what happens when mentally ill people have Internet access. Keep in mind this guy is a racial minority in the Western world, and it did absolutely nothing to save him because the people that do this are white lesbians. It's very difficult to deal with if you aren't an outspoken Jow Forumstard or some analogue relevant to your country's politics.

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>It's very difficult to deal with
Hardly. Don't engage. It's that simple.

You engage with them as soon as you deny their pull requests full of spaghetti code. Ignore them after and they slander you anyway.

I thought the point of free software was so that power vacuums like this don't happen

>pic
holy fucking shit, it is really bad over there

Fuck'em. Slander is slander today just as it always was.
>oh no someone is saying untruths about me, I better give in to their goading
Bad.

OpenBSD (FreeBSD is just a less secure bastardization that is a shitty attempt to make a BSD be as GNU/Linux like as possible) or Alpine Linux's
If you need ZFS storage for a NAS OmniOS

If you're a webshit, yes.
It doesn't matter if the community is rational about it. Sponsoring companies are terrified of bad PR, and online news media doesn't care if allegations are true as long as they can reap ad money from rage clicks (this goes for mainstream media as well as tabloids like Breitbart).
Part of it is taking the bait, but I don't blame project maintainers for this because they're just assuming good faith and have better things to do than to stay current on the latest fads among societal failures. It is something that requires you to be prepared to deal with before it happens.

my only issue with void is a lack of scripts dedicated to handling services. I could easily write some bash scripts to handle it, but I feel like it should be baked into the default system.

guess what does what:
ln -s /etc/sv/ /var/service/
rm -R /var/service/
sv status
sv up|start
sv down|stop
sv restart
pstree -a

Where as systemd
systemctl enable
systemctl disable
systemctl status
systemctl start
systemctl stop
systemctl restart
systemctl status

the real elephant in the room, I think, is journald, which is absolutely atrocious on boot times and command accessibility.

sorta proved myself wrong, but basically symlinks feel really weird to write when sv handles everything else.

you can also stop services by deleting them from /run/, and based on the config files, runit will restart them or leave them down.

You're right. FreeBSD is shit by it's own merits.
It's always been shit then they added a CoC and made it even worse.

Devuan is literally just Debian without systemd. I use Devuan ascii on my laptop and desktop, it's a fantastic general-purpose OS. I use Debian on my VPS, though, since systemd timers are comfy.
>SystemD
total nitpicky thing, but it's systemd. You wouldn't say UdevD or RsyslogD, right?

Unironically Gentoo.
Have to get once into it properly but then it works forever.

Have been running 3 Gentoo machines same installation since around 10 years nothing ever breaked.

>I use Debian on my VPS, though, since systemd timers are comfy.
systemd with just the useful shit would be pretty sick, too bad poettering is in charge and everything is crammed together for no reason

wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64

install gentoo

install funtoo

install desu

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based desuposter

take the desu pill

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>has first class host virtualization
>has extended access control
>>>>less secure

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>windows anything
>not retarded

Slackware 14.2

youtube.com/watch?v=rRg2vuwF1hY
>has a larger attack surface
>has more vulnerabilities
I don't know user seems less secure to me. Maybe instead of adding more meme security shit like virtualization and acls they should fix the lack of security that already exists.

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I tried devuan a few months ago and a significant number of packages still had broken systemd dependencies.