What does Jow Forums think of the Boeing crashes? Apparently it was software acting on a failed sensor which caused it

Enough with the trolling.

It's disturbing that such a new plane got into commercial use with a system that had so little in the way of backup/redundancy while being really quite important for flight.
Boeing dropped the ball here, but it wasn't just Boeing. Other organizations signed off on this, regulatory organizations, but Boeing is going to take all the flak.

Programmers are dogshit at their jobs and apparently so are aerospace engineers.

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It's a real ASRS report people found. You got the number and text, confirm it if you want. No, it did not lead to the plane crashes. It is just insane.

Here's another:
> ATIS sheet fell through the slot forward of the center pedestal and the blank off plate. We had Maintenance come out to remove it. We discovered 20 other ATIS sheets mixed into the wiring. The aircraft is only six months old. Severe potential fire hazard!

No fucking shit sherlock we have been knowing this for the past two weeks

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He's not that far off the mark with this one. Imagine being on the wrong side of the debate versus Orange Man. BIG BKUE ON SUICIDE WATCH.

Let me tell you something my friend. When I step out onto that tarmac and see a Boeing, I point at the aircraft, then the nearest member of staff, and declare that I'm not going.

>He's not that far off the mark with this one. Imagine being on the wrong side of the debate versus Orange Man. BIG BKUE ON SUICIDE WATCH.
pilot here, he's actually 100% wrong the reason the 737s are crashing is the pilots tried to take control back from the autopilot that was correcting for a stall and flew it into the ground. I hate to say it but the vast majority of airline crashes are pilot error and 100% auto pilot would actually be safer overall

Except the "stall" the autopilot tried to correct DIDN'T FUCKING EXIST.

3rd world pilots too dumb to resort to flying manually when the computer acts funny.

>He's not that far off the mark with this one
yeah, airplanes were far simpler in the past, weren't they?
no, they weren't. they have always been complex machines.

This is why the FAA exists to torment first world countries.

To be fair, they were. They didn't have several layers of automated shit between the pilot and the flight surfaces.
Unless we're talking about cutting edge stuff from the past like the Concorde.

>Except the "stall" the autopilot tried to correct DIDN'T FUCKING EXIST.
The autopilot would have just nosed down a bit to decrease angle of attack, it would take 2 human idiots to fly it into the ground in such a situation

they panicked

>To be fair, they were. They didn't have several layers of automated shit between the pilot and the flight surfaces.
they were also far more dangerous on average

Well you as as dumb as two idiots. There were no autopilot involved as the failed system disengaged if the autopilot was on.

It nosed down a lot because the angle of attack sensor malfunctioned.

Still, they could have just disabled the automatic trim or even grabbed the trim wheel to physically overwrite the computer.

tbqh it's largely airbus and the chinese

>yeah, airplanes were far simpler in the past, weren't they?
yes they were literally cables and pulleys until the 1970's
>no, they weren't. they have always been complex machines.
I mean about as complicated as a bicycle or a motorcycle

>Using an active system to compensate for decreased passive stability.

This is the kind of executive decision that emerges from a reward structure slanted too much for the short-term.

>Safety features? You'll need our enterprise license for that.

How the fuck did you link this to liberals and Trump?

Your thought process is extremely unhealthy and you should probably get help.

>WOOP WOOP NOSE UP

why not use electronic magic to fly things that by all accounts should not be able to fly my dude. welcome to 1968.

>reddit spacing
please refrain from making such low quality posts

>yes they were literally cables and pulleys until the 1970's

The computer system blamed for the crash works by turning a wheel in the cockpit which is mechanically linked to the horizontal stabilizer, just like in "ye olde days".

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>To be fair, they were. They didn't have several layers of automated shit between the pilot and the flight surfaces.
says "airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly"
I said in "yeah, airplanes were far simpler in the past, weren't they?"
the fact is, they weren't "far simpler" to fly, design or build. they've always been complex machines. that was my point.

>yes they were literally cables and pulleys until the 1970's
see above

In short
>Boeing installed new, more powerful engines
>New engines are placed more inboard and are further forward of the aircraft's centre of gravity due to structural and ground clearance concerns
>This causes the aircraft to be less stable w.r.t. nose pitch up
>Nose pitch up is dangerous because it increases the angle of the wing relative to the incident airflow. This will cause loss of lift if the angle is too high.
>Boeing decided to fix this by installing a piece of software that automatically pitches the nose down using the control surfaces instead of actually making the aircraft stable
>Automatic pitch down software erroneously activates either due to a bug or faulty measurements
>Aircraft flies into terrain

I think it's bullshit that muh job creator worship in the US is to the point where corporations can literally kill people to make or save a buck with impunity.

If Joe mechanic fucks up a brake job and someone dies, he goes away for manslaughter. This double standard needs to stop. No one should be above the law.

Boeing is going to take the flak because it's 90% their fault. Regulators don't create problems, they just fail to prevent them sometimes.

>>moved mounting location which changed the balance of the plane

Not true, the plane is still perfectly balanced.

What changed is the engines are now so powerful than if the pilots open the throttle too fast the plane will pitch up and could enter a stall.
So they added a safety system to correct for pilots who are too throttle happy.

This is why you don't buy airplane parts from /csg/

I'm a software dev working on shit that doesn't hurt anybody and my anxiety is already really high. Imagine being the motherfucker writing the software that turns the plane's nose down when it gets a bad reading from a sensor and kills hundreds of people. Holy fucking shit I would kill myself.

Although maybe in this case we can blame the sensor...

Wrong, the automated system is allowed to override pilot commands unless the system (and it is separate from the rest of the autopilot) is turned off with a switch.

nah most of the new systems use electropnematics cables have been a back up for a long time but they are disappearing fast since the 70s even in that role. Many more new aircraft designs are physically incapable of stable flight without their computer controlled systems

>Regulatory organizations run by corporate lobbyists don't actually regulate
Who would have thought?

>reddit spacing
>Boeing is going to take the flak because it's 90% their fault.
nah desperate clutch at straws by airbus will fail as always because eurohomos can't make good airplanes

>greentext
random words no u

Also this is Jow Forums spacing circa 2004.

>eurohomos can't make good airplanes
And a bunch of Koch shills in Wichita can?

With a bunch of elif conditions to check instead a few, even the sensor being broken wouldn't lead to the plane literally fucking crashing.

We can have machine learning on shitty webcams that detect shit and can tell what they are and we cant have that on planes that can map the area around and see you are going to fucking crash this shitty plane?

Imagine being a software engineer that make toodler mistakes that cost lives like that. The future of coding is definitely super intelligent neural networks that wont make shitty mistakes.

libcuck outs himself as a eurohomo retard pretending to be an originalfag yet again. what a shock.

Since the engines are placed further FORWARD they would naturally pitch the plane DOWN not up.
Of course they also changed other parts of the design so it's still perfectly balanced.

It's the fact that the engines are below the wing that causes the plane to pitch up when increasing throttle.
This is true for all planes with engines below the wing.
Similarly planes with engines above the wing pitch down when increasing thrust, which is more dangerous.

youtube.com/watch?v=vyK2gPbZUoc
better than you akmed

>Many more new aircraft designs are physically incapable of stable flight without their computer controlled systems

Many, yes.....but not the Boeing 737 MAX

Not that guy but, this is Piere Sprey levels of pretending to know shit about aircraft design.

They say as their aircraft are literally falling out of the sky

You're pretty dumb.

youtube.com/watch?v=e-tAPFbPm9A
pathetic

>Three of four crew members died in the crash.
how the fuck did anyone survive that crash? the first thing I thought was "at least they died quickly"... must have been fucking hell for the one that survived

>300+ people killed because of some retarded decisions by Boeing
>posts videos of military aircraft being taken to extreme conditions and failing
are americans always in denial?

youtube.com/watch?v=I9gELPxPG8Q
sure thing eurofaggot

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no, it was because jewish boeing fuckers made critical security measures into a paid DLC.

arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/03/boeing-sold-safety-feature-that-could-have-prevented-737-max-crashes-as-an-option/

>are americans always in denial?
yes

>1988
meanwhile, Boeing aircraft are falling from the skies in 2019, you fucking retard.

>Buy the DLC or die.
This shit might work at EA and Ubisoft, but when it comes to actual fucking airplanes they might want to reconsider their tactics.
This is a great example of what happens when the suits keep on running companies by the numbers and trying to squeeze few extra million without using common sense.
Result is that a chunk of their +600$ billion order book might migrate to Airbus and other companies. Their orders are 80% composed of this new model and people now consider it a deathtrap.
Fucking idiots.

Basically this. Corporate greed kills constantly, it just isn't usually as blatant as 400 people dying in plane crashes.

test

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lol, look at the b-2 stealth bomber if you want to see something that should never be able to fly. it's africa-tier engineering flown by a massive incomprehensible software suite.

A lot of it has to do with where you're sitting in the plane. Assuming you are strapped in for landing, it is possible for the giant metal tube around you to just act like a bumper. An extreme example is Vesna Vulovic, who survived an explosion from cruise altitude, and full speed crash in part because she was in the stewardess area toward the rear.

Hello there Vincent Teoh from HDTV test, TV reviewer and professional calibrator

Unpopular opinion - Pilots should not only be capable of flying their planes, they should be REQUIRED to at all times aside from level flight at cruise altitude where an autopilot can maintain trim to keep the plane level.and straight over the course of what would otherwise be an exhausting 8 hour flight.

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And you are utterly retarded please kill yourself.

In this case we blame the engineer who decided to design a life-critical system relying on a single sensor. Three redundant sensors would have been appropriate.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214

Relying on pilots can be just as problematic.

How much do you honestly think your life is worth?

this is what i was thinking. why do i have a million useless sensors in my car setting off warning lights every other week and boeing says, "fuck it, two is fine."

>spot the chinkbot

Actually the main problem is that the sensor only detects pitch. It just assumes "pitch up = stall". Faulty sensors happen, best defense against them is multiple types of data so you can figure out which sensor it is that is busted.

Lack of redundancy, whatever the method, is the issue

Shit happens, anything built by people will fail at some point.
The problem is that the pilots were unaware of the system so were unable to diagnose and compensate for it's failure.

WOOP WOOP PULL UP
WOOP WOOP PULL UP
WOOP WOOP PULL UP

The plane has two sensors but the MCAS only uses one.
That's the best part. There's a warning light add-on that checks both sensors and if there are vastly different readings it flashes a light that says "Hey the system doesn't work turn it off"
Which really makes you wonder- why the fuck doesn't MCAS just read both sensors and automatically shut off (with audible warning) if there's a sensor issue?

>Apparently it was software acting on a failed sensor which caused it.

it was a lot of things
first and foremost boeing has the ability to certify their own planes instead of the FAA since 2013...
second apparently boeing sells as extra the very failsafes that would alert the pilot that the MCAS wasnt working
third MCAS is a fucking stupid system that only exists because the plane is literally aerodynamicly unstable with the new engines
4)up untill lion air crash boeing didnt felt the need to write down about the mcas on the flight manual thus nobody knew about it

>>also additional dashboard instruments for relevant warnings was not installed on the planes by default, had to be purchased as an additional package, which many carriers chose not to purchase
Aircraft safety systems are now literally paid DLC. What a time to live in.

>instruments as additional package

Wow

KEK

Remember a time when airbags were a paid extra in cars?

That's what happens when you buy American.

>Actual boomer who can barely operate a smartphone talking about that Darn Complicated Technology!

I do, actually. It was only about two decades ago.

software bloat is literally people

Yeah. Are they even standard now? I wouldn't go out of my way to buy airbags, a seatbelt is enough for me.

fuck I meant to say "literally killing people"

Funny how none of these crashes have happened in the US, no?

forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2018/11/16/united-pilots-say-they-were-already-trained-to-override-boeing-737max-automatic-stall-recovery/

Seems only Americans have a habit for redundancy.

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holy crap is that Simon