What is the point in programing basic things like file reading or anything in C, C++, and other low level languages. You are spending hours memorizing minutiae, and for what, have bragging rights? Learn some high level language so you can do some actual shit, and not waste so much of your time.
Programming is freaking massive these days. It's like people have already figured out addition, multiplication, trigonometry, and calculus. And you are still stuck back in the ages adding two numbers over and over again. It's such a waste of time.
half-agreed low-abstraction unsafe non-GC langues like C and C++ should only be used when efficiency and performance are actual major concerns of the project
Oliver Wilson
you can abstract out the minutiae yourself.
C was originally meant to be used with UNIX in an environment when smaller programs piped things to eachother via stdin and stdout and glued together with BASH or some other shell scripting that was used at the time. the "basic things" you are mentioning would have most of the time been done in the shell scripts portion of an application.
This concept has been around since the very early 70's and was primarily used for the American telephone system. Before C and pipes and UNIX you had to call an human operator to get a hold of anything. the first true computer automation.
So, to answer you, you wouldn't most of the time, and it has always been that was. .
Colton Reed
fuck off
Kayden Sullivan
also, C IS a high level language. if you can write python you can write C.
Michael Taylor
C and C++ are not low level languages and have libraries to do things for you just like any other language, you literal retard.
>C is not low level The only 2 things lower are asm and machine code tho.
Jace Gutierrez
>Before C and pipes and UNIX you had to call an human operator to get a hold of anything. the first true computer automation. I'm amazed at the amount of AT&T historical revisionism around.
fuck you, you are the reason why the internet is getting slower you fucking absolute nigger monkey. suck my cock and get off the block nigger.
Christopher Howard
Agree 100%. People just set the bar arbitrarily just to get bragging rights whenever convenient. You never see anyone redesigning a CPU from scratch, nor you see them bootstrapping a compiler from scratch, neither directly using syscalls to directly interface with the OS, but somehow they are completely fine reimplementing linked lists and hash tables every time. Programming, just like everything else, is also about using past discoveries, inventions and solutions to build new things. Now, it's perfectly fine to reimplement things from scratch as an exercise, to gain a deeper understanding of how they work, but doing it in a real project is asinine unless there is VERY good reason to do so (there almost always isn't).
Yeah, and C still feels for me like a python, in which the headers and libraries actually communicate to me what they will return. Honestly C is very comfy, coming from making simple python scripts. It's just that I think so far, the string parsing is more advanced by default in python.
Michael Hill
Somebody has to implement those low level features you rely on in order to enable your high-level frameworks.
t. systems and embedded developer.
PS. Historically speaking, C was a high-level language; it is an abstraction over assembly programming
Thomas Wood
>Somebody has to implement those low level features you rely on in order to enable your high-level frameworks. The point is that they shouldn't be implemented at all, duh. The point is that there is no reason to do so when good implementations already exist.
Isaac Nelson
This is incredibly weak bait.
Jack Fisher
>The point is that they shouldn't be implemented at all, duh. But they have to, otherwise you'd still be stuck with legacy systems.
>The point is that there is no reason to do so when good implementations already exist. But they don't. Hardware is always changing, and systems need to keep up and implement support for new features.
Thomas King
>But they have to, otherwise you'd still be stuck with legacy systems. You're not disagreeing here. What's your point? >But they don't. Hardware is always changing, and systems need to keep up and implement support for new features. You are arguing with a strawman. Hardware-dependent solutions are not the only wheel that gets constantly reinvented. There are G-d knows how many C projects out there that even reimplement sorting multiple times instead of just using qsort. And yes, it would have sufficed. Or for instance, creating a socket. How come there still isn't a simpler standard interface for it in C++ or even C? None of the code that is usually used to create, say, a common TCP socket is hardware-dependent.
What's "bait" about it? Are you implying I should write my own linked list every time?
Alexander White
>You're not disagreeing here. What's your point? Huh?
>You are arguing with a strawman. Uh what?
>Hardware-dependent solutions are not the only wheel that gets constantly reinvented. I don't care for reinventing the wheel. I never said this was a good thing. OP literally asked what the purpose of learning C was, and I answered that the purpose of using C and low level programming is to provide low level and system features.
>There are G-d knows how many C projects out there that even reimplement sorting multiple times instead of just using qsort I'm not talking about these, and neither did OP. The only legitimate reason for implementing a sorting algorithm yourself is for the purpose of learning how it works. But otherwise you should not, as you said yourself, reinvent the wheel.
>Or for instance, creating a socket. How come there still isn't a simpler standard interface for it in C++ or even C? But it is already extremely simple? How could it literally be any simpler than Berkeley sockets?
>None of the code that is usually used to create, say, a common TCP socket is hardware-dependent. Which is why it already is extremely simple and implemented as a Berkeley socket interface? It is definitively already an abstraction, you aren't setting packet headers manually, but using file descriptors, which is an abstraction.
Benjamin Green
honestly the only time i use c these days is when im fucking with microcontrollers
Isaac Rodriguez
What else do you use senpai? I'm a pythonlet and planning on learning c for fun, not sure what else.
Jose Edwards
Use FORTH instead
Robert Thomas
>if you can write python you can write C >lying to kids on the internet
Christopher Gomez
he means that if you wont focus on low level c or c++, you will focus on high level garbage. flinging shit on top of shit, abstraction layer on abstraction layer, etc. where everything will become a bloated mess.
