Free electricity from water

So, you can turn water into Hydrogen gas + Oxygen gas when running electricity into water. That Hydrogen gas could be used to power a motor. That motor could produce electricity.

Is it possible to produce enough electricity with this motor so that it could create the hydrogen gas from water? So, the machine would run without any external source of electricity, and run only on water? Thoughts?

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Other urls found in this thread:

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/electrol.html
californiahydrogen.org/wp-content/uploads/files/doe_fuelcell_factsheet.pdf
smithsonianmag.com/innovation/a-potato-battery-can-light-up-a-room-for-over-a-month-180948260/
astronaut.com/the-planet-of-burning-ice/
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

this idea has been a facet of pseudoscience for the past century.

>Is it possible to get more energy out than there is energy getting in
No

he means a continuous supply of water being provided

This has been a pipe dream for decades and is at best never gonna happen at worst pseudo science bullshit. Bio fuels are much more realistic, in fact in some places entire cities busses are already running only on bio fuels made from hay.

OP wants free electricity though

I am really not sure how retarded you must be to think that this could work with some efficiency

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Just do like pic

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nvm then he's just retarded

Well, the question is, that how much energy/electricity is needed to break the water molecule into H2 + O, and how much energy/electricity H2 produces when exploding in engine. It's not "free" energy, as the water is the fuel that is consumed.

>what is the conservation of mass and energy?
>what is entropy?
>what is hydrogen embrittlement?
>why is that bad for an internal combustion engine?

any perpetual movement and free energy machine gets fucked by the fact that a little bit of energy is lost all the time
And even IF you found a way to make it 100% efficient, you wouldn't be able to do anything with it, because if you took any energy out of it it'd no longer be 100% efficient

That reactions is super non efficient, you would have to put in more electricity than you could ever generate. The only way to do that is on large scale and with solar/nuclear electricity. So no.

Yes I've heard of this before!
God guides thee
>Drink of life
Impossible!!
Don't travel north or northwest
Salted REAL
>Northeast will work

THEN IT COMES
>Bliss

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>Ignores first law of thermodynamics.
Follow image to get free electricity fag.

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You would use less energy by starting a magnesium fire and pouring the water directly on it

op here, well it's not "free" as the water is the fuel that is consumed in process. i was wondering if any1 here would know the numbers of how much kwh is needed to produce 1 kg of hydrogen, and how many kwh can 1 kg of hydrogen produce when burned.

i guess it either doesnt work, or oil companies want me dead by tomorrow.

Water is not a fuel, you can't burn it directly. You need to to split into hydrogen and oxygen which you can THEN burn. The problem is it takes more energy to split it then you get out by burning it.

op here,
yeah figures.
what about pouring some NaOh in the water tank and throwing some aluminium in the mix? then you wouldnt need any electricity to produce the H2-gas. I dunno, it might be cheaper to just use oil than water + aluminium + Naoh to run a generator.

It would be cheaper to plug into the Jewish power grid and pay like a good goy

>it might be cheaper to just use oil
Quite likely. Aluminum itself takes a lot of energy to extract and refine.

A fork in a power outlet bend back onto itself works.

Don't actually do this

It's no different than gas engine, you retard.

ITT idiots doesn't even understood the question.

Makes more sense to use a Water Wheel geared to an Alternator or Induction Motor.

Or just steal some of your power, the wastage in the power network is insane anyway, transformers are constantly turning themselves into huge arc welders, as long as you don't have a warehouse full of cannabis plants I doubt anyone would notice.

It's different because the energy required to extract and refine oil to make gasoline is less than you get by burning that gasoline, which is not the case with splitting hydrogen from water.

It's simpler to hook electric motor to generator.

You do realize why people don't do this right? Its fucking explosive.

I dont really know much about this but i do know the last 2 people that tried to capitalize on an actual water powered car (not a supplemental system) woke up dead

>The electrolysis of water requires a minimum of 237.13 kJ of electrical energy input to dissociate each mole. Each mole of water gives you 2 grams of Hydrogen and 16 grams of Oxygen
hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/electrol.html

Therefore it would require 118.5MW to create a kg of hydrogen gas. Approximate efficiencies of hydrogen fuel cells are ~60%. So you could recover up to 71.1MW of energy from your kilo of hydrogen gas.
californiahydrogen.org/wp-content/uploads/files/doe_fuelcell_factsheet.pdf

op here.

thanks.

Wikipedia says this about combustion:

A simple example can be seen in the combustion of hydrogen and oxygen into water vapor, a reaction commonly used to fuel rocket engines. This reaction releases 242 kJ/mol of heat and reduces the enthalpy accordingly (at constant temperature and pressure).

so, energy needed to produce H2 is only 237.13 kJ, and the combustion of H2 produces 242 kJ/mol.

combustion (burning) is interesting reaction.

The other thing to know is that internal combustion engines are terribly inefficient - something around 20%. So in reality most of the energy from burning hydrogen is going to waste.

It's better to think of hydrogen as an energy storage system, rather than as fuel. And in that respect, batteries are often a better choice.

I think this could work if you could get rid of friction

op here,

yeah... i dont know how 1KJ of energy in heat compares to 1KJ of energy in electricity. and in combustion energy is released as light too. (and sound).

i guess ill just stick to my potatoes:
smithsonianmag.com/innovation/a-potato-battery-can-light-up-a-room-for-over-a-month-180948260/

>woke up dead
what
how do you wake up dead?

It take more energy to create the HHO than you could ever get back from it. So no.

Electrolysis is terribly ineffecient, you cant even break even.

Why not? Did you try it?

Oh fuck off don't do this here, no no no no no no no.
You cannot electrolyte water with a net energy gain. It's not possible.
Is this the troll physics thread? Are we going to be posting flying cars with magnets duct-tapped to rollerskates, next?

op here,

this is kinda troll physics, but interesting nevertheless.

I just found out that hydrogen could be produced from water via thermolysis:

"Water spontaneously dissociates at around 2500 °C, but this thermolysis occurs at temperatures too high for usual process piping and equipment. Catalysts are required to reduce the dissociation temperature."

and also about hydrogen burnin:

"The amount of heat energy released is independent of the mode of combustion, but the temperature of the flame varies. The maximum temperature of about 2,800 °C (5,100 °F) is achieved with an exact stoichiometric mixture"

so in theory u could maybe produce hydrogen from water byheating the water with burning hydrogen.

i guess u'd need more hydrogen to heat the water than the water would release tho. disappointing.

piss off big oil

Where does the energy come from to separate the hydrogen and oxygen? A battery?
What happens when the battery runs out? Do you power it with the hydrogen?
How is that any different from pic related?

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it takes alot of energy to separate molecules
you put in more than you get out
in a car the battery would die so no power to invert to higher voltage for electrolysis to get the fuel you are running it on and the system falls flat
no stored power to create the fuel, no power to start the motor and run its electrical systems
ive tried it

Better off living in pleasent community with internet access and way to a airport for travel. Stop inefficient and unnecessary travelling to places when you could live in a clean and efficient environment.

op here,

yeah, i guess u cant transfer energy from breaking bonds in water into enough electricity that you could make it self sustaining. unless u could get it "burning"; the combustion is interesting reaction that is self sustaining as long as u get an initial spark to get the reaction going and have some material to burn. Imagine setting the ocean on fire, and it would produce the hydrogen via thermolysis to keep that fire going untill we run out of water or oxygen. lol.

also, there's this planet of burning ice:

"The surface temperature of this exoplanet is around 439 degrees Celsius.
It has been concluded by scientists and astronomers that there is a certain form of ice existent on Gliese 436 b that is kept solid due to the immense gravitational force originating from the planet’s core, which intensifies with increases in depth, thereby preventing the water from evaporating as it does on Earth. There are many different states of water, rather than the three forms we are aware of, and the water on the Planet of Burning Ice is subjected to conditions that make it much denser than the familiar ice seen on earth. It has been hypothesized that the state of water on this planet is Ice VII, a cubic, crystalline form of ice that has been manufactured in laboratories. So, just as carbon turns to diamond when exposed to massive amounts of temperature and pressure, the water on Gliese 436 b turns to “burning ice”, consequently becoming one of the most fascinating heavenly bodies humanity is cognizant of.
astronaut.com/the-planet-of-burning-ice/

Without putting more energy into the battery, to power the reaction that creates your hydrogen, you cannot sustain it.
You'll lose energy though heat between the battery and anode/cathode, heat from the water warming up, among other losses.
If you use the hydrogen you made to recharge the battery, you will not recharge it to 100% because of these losses. So even if you kept filling the water, the battery would eventually run out of energy.

I'm not sure what Ice VII has to do with this, but the hot ice scientists produce in labs are don using diamond anvils that take a tiny amount of water and turn it into exotic forms of ice. Pic related.
The reason they do this is because the greater the surface area, the harder it is to create the required pressures.

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>Free
The energy and metals need to come from somewhere. H2O isn't going to split itself.

>needs electricity to work to make gas
>gas runs motor
>"That motor could produce electricity."

1: The process to make the gas would need some amount of outside electric to get started to make enough for the motor to run.
2: This input "charge" will dwindle away until that energy is replaced entirely by the motor-gas-cycle.
3: The system will start to run down until the motor can no longer make enough energy to produce the gas.
4: There's a host of other problems inherent to these types of oxyhydrogen fuel systems.

The only thing you are accomplishing here is making a ridiculously complex and inefficient flywheel to store a tiny amount of energy for a relatively short amount of time. Without constant outside input of energy the system will not stay running.

It would be better to utilize energies that you are wasting instead of trying to create new forms of energy. I suggest looking into biomethane and DIY biomethane digesters. From those, you get methane gas for fuel and high nitrogen fertilizer. The "trick" here are the microorganisms. You would be using free slave labor (microbes) to easily turn biowastes of every kind (especially feces/manure) into fuel and fertilizer for making more food. The energy you put into it would be the biomass waste which will be "free" for the most part. Heating the unit can be done with a fraction of the biomethane being produced. Until the day you need to purchase biowaste, this sort of system will be as "free energy" as you can get.

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op here,
neat idea.
yeah i was just wondering if burning H2 could be transfered into enough electricity to separate H2 from water, but apparently it cant be done. good thing i made a post here before trying to build the machine myself to see if it works.

The amount of electricity you get from burning H and O is less than the amount consumed from splitting it apart

You are describing a perpetual motion machine essentially (i.e. against the laws of physics)

The best use I've found for oxyhydrogen is for making a cutting torch.

>gas chamber
Liked and subscribed

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you can get electricity from water in a somewhat efficient way only from the flow of it, and it has been discovered already

>is it possible to get more energy out of an otherwise-isolated system than I put into it
No.

Just get some solar panels. Nothing you do is going to be better. Or maybe a wind turbine if you live in somewhere super windy.

I've done this before. It's one of the only practical uses.

The only problem was my setup took up an entire table making it as impractical as fuck.

If I wanted to autistically generate cheap power I'd burn waste motor oil use that to drive a steam engine which drives an alternator which runs an inverter

op here,
i wasn't thinking of it a perpetual motion engine, but rather as a machine that could use water as fuel. there could be a way to do it, but i guess it's not this simple. some special conditions might be required to persuade the water molecules to break easier... or some more efficient way to transfer energy from explosion into electricity.
as posted above, the minimum energy needed to electrolyte water is 237.13 kJ/mol of electrical energy, and and the combustion of H2 produces 242 kJ/mol of heat energy. maybe sometime in the future there will be a way to do this.
as we speak the quantum physics are on their way to challenge the laws of thermodynamics ;D

ok my final post, im going to sleep now.
It just might be that the most efficient way to create electricity from water (and sugar) is to feed it to human who rides a bike hooked to generator.

>but rather as a machine that could use water as fuel
If water was that unstable then we wouldn't have the oceans. I get the temptation of trying to get energy out of something that has "Hydrogen" and "Oxygen" in its name and is literally everywhere, but water is pretty much the last compound you should be looking to get energy out of.

Just burn the organic compounds around you which are evolved explicitly to be molecular energy stores.

Only of you are retarded enough.
You can't break thermodynamics

...

>what is humanitarisnism
Jfc

A joule is always the same. What process you do with that energy is what have variable efficiency. You can't convert 100% energy into work or another form of energy.

Just split atoms, we already know how to do it and it's been in practical use for decades.

op here,
okay i did some googling and apparently:
for 1 litre (0.09 grams) of hydrogen at stp you need 5.56 watthours of electricity.
to produce 1 kwh of energy via fuel cells you need 42 grams of hydrogen at stp.

so, it would come to something like this:
>with 1 kwh of electricity you can produce 17 >grams of hydrogen,
>and to make 1 kwh of electricity you'd need 42 >grams of hydrogen.

so no.. it cant be done. shame. no precice numbers, just quick mathhs. shame.

fffffff
Respect for using numbers and research

The absolute fucking state of /sci/
oh wait faq
Did they ban you on /sci/ already?