Is webdev the nigger of developers?

Is webdev the nigger of developers?

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Yes, but PHP is fine.

web development really shouldn't even be a profession. being able to create a website should be like being able to write a paper.

anyone can make a website, but because of all the retarded normie technologies that the w3c has decided are reasonable things for a hypertext format to contain, html5 is enough to create dynamic webapps that really shouldn't be accessed from a web browser. of course, for normies, the web browser = the internet. the web was perfectly accessible -- more so than now, even -- before they tacked on all this shit that they collectively call the "modern web".

web developers don't need to understand how computers work at all to make websites, and they don't care about elegance to make websites simple. they just throw on megabytes of libraries. go to a news site and you've just downloaded more data than the entire source code of windows 3.1 or doom.

because of how "easy" (in a bad way) it is program things for a web browser, html/css/js has expanded to the desktop with things like the atom text editor.

it takes no effort to learn web design. unlike operating system programming, you can learn it incrementally, where you only have to learn one specific thing at a time and can otherwise live in a little bubble. the result is sloppy code made by people who don't understand anything an iota beyond what they've managed to accomplish in the most naive way possible.

yes

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I don't know if you realize this, but your view of web developers is a 1:1 copy of how Liberal Arts students view you
>people have figured out they will make more money by doing things that are practical and in-demand, yet less challenging! What an outrage!

This applies to static pages, but that isn't what you hire webdevs for most of the time. Come back when you've written an interactive paper that authenticates its reader, fetches data from a few different sources, and lets the reader view and manage this data.

Yes

Scaling, developing and deploying the distributed systems that support millions of users and thousands developers on the other hand, isn't.

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What's the challenge?

first of all i _am_ a liberal arts student.

the problem i have with what the web has become is that _i'm_ the one who gets shafted. if i make a website, i'm supposed to add some css framework to it to make it "look nice" even though it makes it (a) harder to write and (b) harder to read, even if it looks nicer (which is only because of what other web developers have normalized). and then there's javascript. i don't even have a problem with it as a scripting language, but web developers have apparently decided that it's good enough to be used to display the static content of a webpage. and really i shouldn't have to say static content because () all websites should be composed of static content. just reload the page if you want to see changes. or click the "next" button. if you really want your computer to do that for you, you've reached the point where the web *should* be exceeding its use (but instead we got xmlhttprequests). javascript should always be optional on a website (as should css), and arguably it doesn't need to exist at all.

the other way that it harms _everyone_ is that your typical web browser is a couple hundred megabytes in side because it has to accommodate to an evergrowing mashup of random things that have been added to the standard like javascript's canvas and webgl bullshit, native html5 video players (which, just to spit in its _own_ face too, allows for drm anyways), and whatever the hell google's decided normies are going to like this year.

a lot of people measure the "bloat" of a browser or the web as a whole by memory usage, but that's just stupid. of course a web browser is going to need a lot of memory when it's converting each 4MB html page into a responsive document object model that needs to response to user interaction as well as whatever the fuck these devs decide javascript should do (on top of at least three frameworks because of what companies require of their workers).

>first of all i _am_ a liberal arts student

What if I want to make a board where people can post things and then they can see what has been posted, with 20 posts per page? Should I have people email me their posts and then I go through it daily to format posts into static HTML pages?

I'm not a liberal arts student but are you retarded? You don't need fucking JS for any of that.

that's mostly backend. all the frontend requires is forms, which have been around since forever and aren't excessive.

of all the languages in existence today, javascript is going to outlive them all. even c. thanks to the web. let that sink in.

forms. they're here. they work. that's pretty much the most advanced thing you need to require of the web browser.
on the backend, do whatever the hell you want. that's not going to affect the contents the web, and you have plenty of good reasons to do advanced things there. write your http server in lisp for all it matters.
this doesn't require client-side javascript.

Backend is webdev too

That would be embedded, name an easier area.

backend developers are the retards who invented php

>if i make a website, i'm supposed to add some css framework to it

lmfao no, you can do just fine with a basic flexbox layout structure. Who told you that you need a css framework?

>webshits coping: the thread

What about full stack developers then?

touches frontend -> webnigger

take any website, and then consider how much simpler yet _more_ accessible you could make it if you just got rid of some 90% of the source code. look at any news site, and compare it to what it looked like 10-15 years ago on archive.org. it's more readable and more concise. try disabling the css and javascript. chances are the webste will be impossible to read.

when i make a website that does it's job better than 99% of the web, just by being simple, people i show it to complain that it looks too plain. you know what else looks too plain? the pages of a book. do you want a bunch of boxes and pictures and ads and random lines and headers and "subscribe to our newsletter" cluttering the page? does anyone complain that the pages of a book look too plan? no! it's because this bloated, hard to use "modern web" has been normalized by normies and retarded web developers (as i said, it doesn't take any brains to learn web design, which is how it attracts the worst kind of computer people) who think it's a _good_ think for a website to use a dozen third-party tools. jquery, angular, react, bootstrap, and whatever the phase of the moon tells us this week.

Web devs are necessary. I don't want to have to deal with that menial voodoo bullshit in order to give the customer the beveled edges they expect. I just hope the trend of calling them "UX, artisan, other distinguishing terms that separate them from real developers" continues.

I don't give a shit how much they get paid. As long as they keep their distance. And, frankly, all this "Node JS server, we can into real code too" is more charmingly adorable than anything else. Like watching someone make a video game in python.

If your front end guy has to worry about scaling then you have SERIOUSLY fucked up as a company.

>yeah, our site grew so much that it barely loads?
>we are not going to rewrite that shit, just go buy a better PC, goyim

If your gating factor is your Javascript rather than parsing the sheer scale of your data then, again, you have seriously fucked up as a company.

No matter how big you grow, a user only wants to see a finite amount of data. It is the back-end's job to funnel whatever is necessary of its infinitely-large database into finitely many data. It is the front-end's job to turn that finitely many data into pretty tabs and stuff. If the front end is dealing with scaling data, then you fucked up.

>missed the meaning of "scaling" completely
>"just constantly rewrite the frontend lmao"
dumb reddirtspacer

>>"just constantly rewrite the frontend lmao"
>dumb
Smart. He is thinking about his job security.
Nobody needs him if his stuff "just works".

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>"just constantly rewrite the frontend lmao"
Uh... yeah. Rewrite everything. 90% of code running in production in high-performing companies are less than 6 months old. If you aren't doing this already you're spiraling the

But, honestly, what you said is a complete non-sequitur. If you weren't designed to be chunked out from the beginning and you never said "ok I know that I'm going to have to do this eventually but for now I'm just going to say fuck it" than I don't know how to save you. It was a terrible design decision from the start and it's a terrible practice to hang on to. And what's really telling of how far gone your situation is is that you're actually OWNING it as a front-end guy rather than saying "this situation is fucked, the back-end needs to re-imagine these endpoints or we are going to fail as a company in 2 years." Because that's what's going to happen.

The meaning of scaling in this context was not "going from 10 users to 1000 users", it was "going from severing the user 1x amount of content to serving 10x amount of content".
If frontend doesn't give a fuck about scaling, you will have to constantly rewrite that shit (doesn't happen in real life) or "enjoy" seeing your performance slows down to the crawl (this is what usually happens).

The current state of normalfag internet shows very clearly what kind of mess your mentality with your "good design decisions" brings.
But i guess, you webniggers never learn.

>first of all i _am_ a liberal arts student.
stopped reading there kek

who is dis bitsch and why do I want to force my dick into him?

Yes, web "dev" is nigger tier indeed. Literally any moron can do it it's so fucking simple.
t. web "dev" who quit after 2 years and is now pursuing a degree in CS.

>ads
That's the driving factor, sites want to sell ads and advertisers want their ads noticed. Full page interstitials, autoplaying video/audio, etc are all in service of foisting ads upon the lowest common denominator (normie users who can't effectively block ads).

Also think about the ubiquity of mobile browsing. Every site is now an endless stack of full-width divs with huge buttons and giant text so Stacey and Jamal can see it on their iPhone screen.

yes

yes, webdev is the epitome of retardation

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good and reasonable point. but the problem isnt that some random freelance webdevs decide to fuck shit up consciously by adding all this redundant crap. they're mostly working for some company who dictate that all this redundant crap must be used.

>you know what else looks too plain? the pages of a book.
which is why the overwhelming majority of people prefer going to the movies. i think that illustrates why your entire argument is flawed. you're essentially an elitist ranting about how people should read the book instead of watch the movie. your definition of good is subjective but you're treating it as objective and concluding that you're better than anyone who thinks differently.

Minimalistic SSR is ok
SPA is disgusting

i want to rape this fucking useless cunt

there is nothing wrong with using atom

You sound bitter.

Are php and mysql cancer to work with? If yes how cancer? I might get a junior developer position. Is it worth it?

that niggers probably making double your salary for half the work but sure

PHP is easy to fuck up but MySQL and SQL in general is fairly straightforward & easy to learn.

Just learn to sanitize your inputs and you've avoided the biggest beginner mistake.

My professor also owns a company and asked to take me in maybe he likes me
He said i'd do 2 months internship training to get the hang of it before taking me in as a junior dev
I think ill go for it.

Go for it then, even just getting familiar with SQL will be worth it, since it's one of the most commonly used things and would be great to add to your resume.

This. Embedded boomers believe being able to read a schematic and plugging in arbitrary numbers written on it is harder than managing a plethora of tools that's changing everyday.
Webdev (or I'd like to call it Web engineering) is a more intellectually demanding area. You need a streamlined, scalable back-end and a interactive, responsive, user-friendly front-end. I bet these boomers don't even know what a RESTful API is, or how to design a website that doesn't look like it came from the 90s.

As if we needed more evidence that Jow Forums is fully 65% pajeets, this thread is it.